Doc

Unfortunately this is one of the realities of hunting other people's property. Land use is quite an ever-changing thing, and today's honey-hole can turn into tomorrow's housing development. I would hate to say how many prime hunting spots have been replaced by a house, yard and out-buildings and a jillion little screaming kids running all over the place, over the decades. I have had dirt-bikes, and campers take over my favorite stand areas, simply raising the constant level of human activity to an unhuntable state. I see all this "people pollution" as being one of the biggest challenges to hunting today.

My motives are a little more selfish than trying to save a planet....lol. I only want to save my little part of it. At my age, it may not be all that important, but for those that have a bunch of years left, it may be a bit disconcerting to find out 20 years down the road that people sold off the future years of their longevity and property values for some short term prosperity. I have no problem with extended discussion. And I have no sympathy for demonizing those that offer a view of patience and thorough forethought. I tend to be a bit more cautious on controversial issues, and have no real desire to muck around in things simply for some quick cash only to find out later that maybe we were a bit premature and overzealous in our promotion and defense of these activities. Frankly, I doubt there is anyone on this forum that is capable of giving a credible argument on this issue although many try to give the impression that they have some "special" knowledge. It seems to me that it is not an ideological issue (not everything is). In fact it is a scientific issue that should be sorted out by the scientists. I also believe that the financial arguments are incidental and should not be used to force dumb decisions that may not have such nice consequences. Oh, and by the way, if you really have to get into the ideology of all of the suffering masses of bad economic situations in NYS, keep in mind that much of the liberal, socialistic, gains made in this state, followed that same tear-jerking line of argument. Such emotional heart-rending arguments seldom have good logical outcomes.

Of course all of that depends on the real details of exactly what was going on at the time which none of us know.

See, there is the thing that makes me a bit uneasy. Basically they are saying that you never have a right to protect your own critters on your own property from dogs that have callously been turned loose on the neighborhood. I don't care if we are talking about a pet chicken or your own pet dog or any other critter that relies on you for its welfare. Worrying about what is legitimately called "livestock" evades the point that anything on your property should be safe and able to be protected against outside forces. And that should pertain whether that item that you are protecting is a "couple of chickens", your pet wiener dog, or even your goats. You should have the right to use deadly force on any critter that has invaded your property with the intent of doing harm to any critter in your possession or under your care. And when your life can be turned upside down for doing so, something just ain't right and needs fixing.

I love these kinds of technology laced discussions, where each side trots out their gang of scientists, studies and research and proclaims theirs to be the only truth. We all become expert hydro-geologists and our word and expertise become legendary in our own mind. I readily admit that I am kept ignorant on the subject by forces of each side of the debate, each one making claims that are immediately offset by counter-claims all wrapped up in what looks like appropriate credibility. I'll admit it ..... I don't know squat about the issue ..... period, and I refuse to try to impress anyone with some shred of potentially biased and bogus information that I have read from one side or the other. My attitude is that I have seen enough industry abuse of the environment over the centuries, that I feel the burden of proof lies with those that want to use processes that involve the environment. So far the frackers have not met that burden in a definitive way, and until they can reduce their science down to laymen's terms, and fully disclose the nature of the witches brew that they wish to inject into the earth, I will simply be against it until they can. Proprietary info ..... balderdash! Nothing is proprietary when it involves potential fouling of the drinking water that keeps me alive.

What an interesting article. Thanks for the link. It may not be a viewpoint that is very popular here, but it is always interesting to get other viewpoints. It gives you something to think about. I think as habitat continues to fill in and mature, this argument will take on more and more credibility. But, we are likely talking many, many decades before conditions advance to the point where there is any serious public appreciation for all of this.

Even fines should react to inflation. But I do hope the increases are more than simply keeping up with inflation. I am kind of in favor of adding equipment confiscations in somewhere along the line. That seems to have more impact than just money. For some of these guys, the fines are simply a cost of doing business. Anything that is used in the commission of a poaching violation should be confiscated ..... anything .... including transportation to and from the scene of the violation.

If it turns out that the dog was destroying livestock, the end of this story may turn out quite different from what everyone apparently hopes. However, the burden of proof of that now shifts to him. He had better be able to come up with some pictures or livestock carcasses or some such evidence.

Interesting discussion. I may actually own one of these landlocked parcels. My land is separated with two individual deeds. All deed transactions were established prior to 1976. That would be the date that NYS established its Wetlands Act. All existing access (driveways) to properties that crossed the existing wetlands are grandfathered in. However, my 2nd parcel never had a driveway and is cut off from the road by wetlands. So in effect, it was NYS that made the property landlocked via the Wetlands Act. So is it NYS's responsibility to allow access (driveway) to be installed even though it would violate the Wetlands Act? They are the entity that made the parcel landlocked. Ha-ha ..... the situation gets more and more entangled .... lol.

So what is it about turkey calling that so often attracts deer. I can remember a few times when I was squawking away on my box call, it seems like I had better luck calling deer than I did calling turkeys. What do you suppose they have going through their goaty minds when the come sneaking into a turkey call? Something to do with their common choices o food? Just simple curiosity? Something to do with fawns?

Ha-ha .... The good ol' days of hunting are not necessarily measured in deer harvest numbers. I believe that most people who use the term "Good ol' days" when talking deer hunting are talking more about the quality of the hunt than simply about how high a pile of deer they were able to get. But I do get your point that deer numbers have multiplied over the years. However keep in mind that bag limits have also increased .... significantly. Also there have been significant changes in equipment. Rifle usage has certainly increased harvest numbers over the days when a bird barrel used to double as the deer-gun of choice. Bowhunting equipment advances has placed that style of hunting into a major contributor to harvest numbers where back in the day, bow kills were not even a blip in the data. Season lengths today dwarf what we used to have particularly in the bow harvests. Also, the methods of calculating deer harvests have evolved a lot since 1954. which methods got more accurate numbers? .... Well that's an argument for another thread. The point is that there is a significant amount of "apples to oranges" comparisons that is in these numbers if you are trying to compare deer herd sizes via this data. However, just the power of observation tells you that herd sizes are larger. There shouldn't be a whole lot of arguing over that point. I don't believe that populations have risen by the percentages reflected in these harvest numbers but they certainly have risen.

Geiger & Glanton put the story out as a straight factual account and someone else came along and decided that it might sell better if he put a racial slant on it, especially in light of racial news in the headlines these days. Lol .... news media is becoming a joke. Always looking for the commercial edge, facts be damned.

Too late...... looks like Flanigan's got it. Another SAFE Act proponent leading the Republican Senate.

What the heck is it with ducks? They don't seem to have any sense when it comes to picking out nesting areas. I would have thought that they would have learned about swamps and things. Instead you see them marching across busy expressways and such with their brood of ducklings. I once saw a mallard nesting next to the front door of Arbys in Canandaigua. Every customer in and out of that place walked within 3 feet of the silly duck. And of course later on everyone in and out of the parking lot was trying to dodge all the baby ducks marching around the parking spaces.

It ain't dry no more! Saw some of the pictures of Avon last night. It seems they have a particular bridge over there that just can't seem to stay put. After last night's series of storms, I wonder what the front of my driveway looks like ..... lol. Pretty good chance it is or was under water. I also wonder what the garden looks like, or if I even have a garden now. There was some pretty heavy downpours. When it gets daylight, I'll have to check things out.

Ha-ha ..... I almost lost a pole and my entire tackle box in the canal years ago. I was fishing with my Grandpa and I had my pole propped up on the tackle box. We spent the night fishing there with worms, and I guess I fell asleep. I woke up when I herd my tackle box being dragged toward the water. The pole was being dragged in, and the reel hooked onto the tackle box and started dragging that toward the water too. I dove for the pole. felt three or four very heavy tugs before the line snapped. So your advice is spot-on with my experience.

So what's the deal with metal roofs? They don't attract lightning unless they are grounded? LOL.... I started wondering about that when I put the steel roof on the barn. Sure looks like something that lightning might find to be a good target. But it doesn't have a real good path to ground, which I guess is what lightning is looking for.

Obviously deer management is not as delicate a science as some may believe. We always describe it all in terms of perfection, but there is an awful lot of resilience to deer as a species. Management failures on our part as humans will be handled to a certain extent simply by the forces of nature and the resourceful features of the deer species themselves. That's not to say that gross mismanagement and harvest goals never have catastrophic consequences, but there is a whole lot of leeway before serious permanent damage is done. And so, in general, I would have to say that NYS seems to do a passable job of management. No, we don't have trophy deer behind every tree, and there are no guarantees to hunters, and there are highs and lows and cyclical swings, and the herd never lives up to our expectations of perfection. But, on a macro level, and given the fact that resources are finite, and in spite of the constant whining and occasional disappointments, perhaps the job really is being done to the best that all the practicalities of reality allow. Of course that will not stop me from whining and complaining, but sometimes it is useful to sit back and look at the realities of what is really happening in the world of deer management.

There may very well come the day when cops will just flat out refuse to enter certain areas even if it means their job. I wonder how the residents will feel when they are left defenseless because they failed to support the police. I will tell you right now that there are neighborhoods where I will not walk or even drive through. I doubt there is enough money anywhere that would get me to try to enforce laws there. If things continue to deteriorate, it may become impossible to find anyone that is up for the job.

I guess I missed the racial connection too. But, the article does put an answer to those who ask the question about "Why are you all so afraid of a gun registration system?". Just like so much in the government, anytime the government inserts themselves into your life, you will find yourself on the short end of some bureaucrat's power assertion, and corruption and/or personal values will be forced on you. Oh, and by the way, for those that like to bad-mouth and whine about the NRA, you might note that they are the only organization that is standing behind those whose 2nd Amendment rights are being systematically violated by the Indiana state government. For these victims, the NRA is their last line of defense. It's just one of many un-publicized and unrecognized benefits of the NRA.

With the arrest of Dean Skelos, soon to be former Republican majority leader, There will be actions to choose a new NYS Senate Leader. Long Island Senator John Flanigan has been mentioned as a possible replacement Senate Leader. It has to be noted that Senator Flanigan voted for the New York SAFE Act and is not viewed as a friend of the 2nd Amendment. It might be a good time to write your state senator raising your concerns over the possible selection of this anti-2nd Amendment candidate for Senate Leader. Make your voice heard.

You meant 4' fence ..... right? ...... lol.

There! ...... That's what I would have said if I had had the brains to compose it so perfectly.

So is there any correlation between the earliness of antlers starting to form on a deer, and the larger size of the finished product later on?

Yeah, it is hard to get a credible read on the damage done by this past winter just from looking at the herds in the fields. It will take a much closer look at on-the-ground sign to make any reasonable general assessments of the herd size. Even trail cams don't always give the real overall story of an entire area. Some good intensive scouting is what is required. Right now I am too busy with spring activities to get too involved in that yet.