Doc

Don't be trying to drum up sympathy for these scum-bags. It is most likely that these crooks are simply thrill-killers who did it just for the hell of it. I doubt that there is anybody in this welfare state of NY that has to live off the land for any reason other than that they simply want to.

It's not only the anti-hunters that zero in on the minorities of hunting. The more-effective danger of that kind of bias comes from our own hunting population. Those that intentionally built extreme challenge into their hunting by using hunting equipment of yester-year are now targeted by our own general hunting community who jealously eyeball the special seasons that were necessarily carved out for this kind of "high-challenge" version of hunting. Today the emphasis now is to get rid of that silly notion of voluntarily increasing challenges, and start working in the other direction. The mindset and motives of those entering bowhunting are now something that was never intended. Now it is "challenge be damned .... full speed ahead with technology" to change the very nature of this unique opportunity that had been forged by bowhunting fanatics. With that "challenge mentality" removed from bow seasons, the gates long ago were thrown open with an anything-goes mindset. Yes a few decades ago it was the compound bow, and now the crossbow. And anyone who thinks that it will all end with just crossbows doesn't really understand human nature very well. It doesn't take anyone with a crystal ball to predict more and more incursions of weapons that have nothing to do with archery. We have seen firearms incursions happen already. Look for more successful challenges from the muzzleloader enthusiasts. You cannot have a special weapons season that continues to grow it's success rates without having others start to question why you have been granted a special season at all.

I remember those "compound wars" when people were fighting to get the inclusion of compounds into the bow seasons. The anti-compound side was using the argument that the precedents set would eventually break down all limits in the future and would be used to justify the inclusion of all kinds of non-bow implements. I said that was nonsense. As it turns out, they were right. Bow season was a chance to take on equipment challenges that no one else was willing to take on, and so success with a bow was a noteworthy achievement. Human nature being what it is, drove participants to continually seek to remove that challenge that used to be the reason for the special season. I don't expect that part of human nature to stop, and I don't expect that the crossbow will be the last attempt to discard elements of challenge from bow season either. Bow season is becoming just a warmer time to hunt, and really little else. That's just the natural evolution of things, I guess.

Does he sound like a raving lunatic or what?

I believe that it was more of a crazy high population than anything too weird about the weather. However, I do remember that the first day that I went over to see the mess, the wind was howling, and the snow was coming down pretty good. I don't recall any huge snow depths (perhaps a foot to a foot and a half of snow on the ground at the time. But judging from the fact that it was April '89 marked on the slides tells me that the winter was reaching into that month without any breaks. I have always heard that more than the actual severity of the winter, starvation rates are influenced more by the length of duration. Between that and the fact that there were so many deer everywhere in that valley (the entire length of the lake and beyond), it was kind of a perfect storm sort of event where several things were going bad at once.

I like the way a lot of that ground is cleared straight to the dirt. That way those stinking snakes down there cannot get to you without you seeing them coming .....

Ha-ha-ha .... I stepped away from this thread with the thought that someone asked a question, and there were already several valid answers given. I thought it was done. Then today I happened to notice that this one is on page 12. I hadn't realized that it had moved from a semi-simple question and answer to an "I hate guns that don't look friendly" topic. Or is that a "Nobody needs to use any guns that I don't use" topic? Whatever .... it certainly took a strange turn ....lol. You really have to pay attention around here. These threads morph in a heartbeat ..... lol. By the way, for anyone who cares, I couldn't care less if you hunted deer with a zip-gun. I am getting real tired of laws being passed based on how evil a gun looks. makes no sense to me, and gun rights are not really something to be messing with so arbitrarily.

Interesting problem. So what does the color red appear to you ..... gray or something? That could be something that may mess with you a bit. And yes, possessing gray squirrels out of season would get you a ticket. However, there are other visible differences between red squirrels and gray squirrels. Size is one thing. The reds are significantly smaller. Their head shape has some subtle differences. The reds are very vocal and have a completely different sound. Even their running patterns are different. However, to learn all these differences will require some research and observations. So it may be a good thing that you have this time to simply wander around and observe nature a bit and learn these different things about wildlife. The suggestion that you take up nature photography is a good one. It will keep you out in the woods for long periods of time so that you can pick up some of the woods lore that is needed for some of the subtleties of hunting. These learning opportunities can be more enjoyable than the actual hunting.

Lawdwaz- *UPDATE* Ok ...... I didn't forget about getting this answer for you on the date of the Honeoye deer yard. I found some of the slides, and they had a development date stamped on them of April 1989.

Hey......Maybe next year I'll break out the winter camping gear and try to break out of the cabin-fever mode. I'm not exactly a green-horn at winter camping, but haven't done it in a few decades. As long as I don't find myself in some of that minus zero crap.

Yup, and unfortunately that is precisely the area that we have to deal with.

Yeah, you have to do things according to the normal schedules. You never know when or if this "global cooling" will continue .... lol. Who knows? .... It may turn around and get super hot and dry. Weather can be an absolute mystery.

Most of my shots over the years have been within 50 or 60 yards, but then, we have only had the use of the rifle for 2 of all those years. One of last year's deer was about 130 yards ...... rifle, bench rested, standing deer, perfect shot. Average shot for me? ...... not hardly.

Lingering winter is a critter-killer, and this appears to be a "lingering winter". It is shaping up to be a crappy nesting and fawning season. We're in a stuck pattern that may not back-off this year.

Lol ...... I was just picturing how I would establish the average shot distances on the area that I hunt. We have mixed habitat that runs from long mowed fields to tight swamps and everything in between. How far you can see depends on every different location on every different kind of terrain and vegetation density. All this for over 600 acres. I think I'll pass on this one. I don't have time enough to take on that project ....lol.

Wow! Reading through this thread, I have to say that maybe NYS, and our DEC, and our hunting opportunities may be pretty darn good. At least compared to Arizona. I suspect that is likely the way it is in some of the other states. That old saying about the grass being greener on the other side of the fence kind of comes to mind.

One of my early successes in hunter recruitment was getting my Dad into archery/bowhunting/bow-making. When I was about 10 or so, for a Christmas present, I bought him a book on building bows (seemed better than a tie or pair of socks ....lol). I don't know why, but it just seemed like something that he might be interested in doing. Well next thing we knew, he was constructing a small cement-block building, building gluing forms, and ovens, buying, designing and building specialized woodworking machines, and just simply went berserk on building bows and using them for hunting. His intent was to get into commercial recurve sales, but Fred Bear was just too big a competition at the time. But, from that little book, the result was that the whole family became bowhunters and most of his grandchildren eventually became heavily involved as dedicated bowhunters.

There is a long dry spell in all of NYS where seasons are closed. This is where it is handy to have alternative activities. Fishing comes to mind.

Here are the results of the CTF meetings where the harvest goals are established: http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7209.html

My theory is that the DEC is panicked because of all of the above. I think a lot of their current actions have nothing to do with current conditions. They are using their famous crystal ball, and looking at a time when hunter numbers and participation will no longer be able to keep up with population growth and the decay of current deer carrying capacities. So there continues to be more concentration on whacking deer populations and finding more ways to universally diminish the quantities of deer even significantly beyond what is necessary today and beyond the desires of hunters. This all ties into my prior comments about all new regulations and rules being aimed at hacking on deer populations. I have no idea whether that really is the mentality of the DEC or not, but it sure looks that way from where I sit.

Ha-ha-ha-ha .... apparently the voice of an expert.

One of the things that doesn't often occur to folks is that a smaller over-all herd, generally means smaller numbers of bucks. Fewer does = fewer fawns = fewer bucks born = fewer mature bucks running around. So I would guess the doe harvest does have a residual effect on how many trophy bucks that there are. Seems logical that if you are going to maintain a "bare-bones" over-all deer population, you probably shouldn't be expecting a bumper crop of trophy bucks every year.

It was real nice of you to build that nice insulated den for the coon ..... or at least that's what he thought (for a while).

I have added quite a few new hunters over the years. I certainly have seen to it that when I am gone I have replaced myself many, many times over. The problem is not always simply adding. There is also a need for keeping people in the sport once you have gotten them here. It is a two headed problem. We are getting to the point where recruitment is not keeping up with losses. Both have to be worked on ...... somehow. That is one reason why we need to examine new rules and regs to ensure that we are not driving out hunters that we already have. When you drive out an existing hunter you not only lose him, but also all the new recruits that he could have been responsible for throughout his life.

Looks like a nice little pile of cash there too.