Doc

I do not hunt with any kind of malice in my heart for my prey. The kind of radio transmission that began this thread is something you would never hear from me. Some hunt with a "Whatever it takes" attitude. They argue that ethics and even fair chase has no place cluttering up their hunting. I have seen this in both bowhunting and gun hunting. It seems to be a growing human trait that doesn't really relate to the weapon in hand, but more on attitudes between the ears. It all boils down to what hunting really means to each individual. That radio transmission that this thread opened up with showed me an individual who is totally immersed in the "Whatever it takes" mentality, and the more people who are repulsed by that, the better for hunting. That mentality of kill at any cost does come through to those outside of hunting, and it does impact how they feel about hunters and the whole activity of hunting.

Ah yes..... the old annual blaze orange controversy. It always amazes me how there could even be a controversy....lol. It's just damn foolishness to go afield in a gun season without wearing generous amounts of the stuff. And this idea of people becoming conditioned to stop following safety rules just because they don't see orange is also just plain nonsense. All I know is that when somebody in blaze orange gets anywhere near me, I know immediately, and begin watching them intently until they are out of sight. If they begin standing in an area that I think is too close, or is in an unsafe situation, I very quickly let them know or I move. I like knowing where other hunters are. I think that little piece of information is pretty important for their safety and mine.

Perhaps it depends on the quality of your local SCOPE representatives, but I will say that our guy was on the ball and sending out advisories and notifications and e-mail at every major part of the election process right from registrations to primaries and candidate selections on through the eventual election, and now the follow-up. In fact it was almost getting to be aggravating to be hand-held to that extent. The end result is that we ditched the incumbent state senator and maintained our pro-gun state assemblyman. And I'll bet if local gubernatorial results could be separated out, I would fully expect that our area was a landslide for Astorino. So from my perspective, I couldn't ask for better results, and our SCOPE reps were not sitting on their hands. Perhaps that wasn't the case everywhere.

I'm not sure what modern harvest number say now, but numbers that I used to hear was that something like 3/4 of the deer harvested were taken on opening day. Now that used to be an opener of a single day (Monday) and now we essentially have a 2 day opener. But in my experience, after the initial shock of the opener, the deer go into super-stealth mode and those that don't get wacked at the beginning get a whole lot tougher to find and take. They are on constant high alert, and mostly nocturnal. On the other hand, those who have had enough experience on the same chunks of land can over time figure out where those chosen hidey-holes are, and work out some clever tactics to handle the situation. But as has already been said, different places with different pressures may have deer that react differently. I am speaking of a relatively heavily hunted chunk of state land.

I know everybody was disappointed that we didn't knock off the main culprit, but NYC is a formidable political force when you are looking at a governorship or a federal campaign. However, the state senators and assemblymen are relatively local elections that NYC isn't involved with and that where the gun advocacy organizations had their impact ..... and it payed off. Forget NYC. When they have a say in any campaign, the pinkos win everytime. But regional elections have regional control.

Every year gets quieter than the one before. Of course I'm not sure how many guys got surprised by the colder opener. It's usually warmer.

I never could understand the camp argument of the Monday opener fans. If you are willing to burn a vacation day or just play hooky on the Monday, why not take that same vaco day on the Friday before and do your camp thing prior to the Saturday opener that we have now. Yes it does cut one of these non-hunting days out of the "camp experience" but really how many of those do you really need?

Message from S.C.O.P.E. Together we changed the balance of power in Albany with the results below: REPUBLICAN 32 DEMOCRAT 24 DEM CONF/W REP 1 IND DEMOCRAT 5 DEM. NOT IN CONF. 1 This was groundbreaking for our state and although the Republicans re-took the Senate we have a long hard fight ahead of us. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So my membership in S.C.O.P.E. was worth the few bucks. I got my money's worth. Of course SCOPE didn't do it all by themselves, but I do feel that all the rallies, mailings, voter awareness activities and other activities that they carried out definitely had an impact. Those that have doubts about gun advocacy groups might want to think about joining and adding their number to the gun advocates.

You got to be kidding me. 18 degrees and a mini-hurricane at work out there. You know, my lifestyle has evolved past the point where I have to have venison to subsist. For me hunting is recreation (refreshment of health or spirits by relaxation and enjoyment). Sometimes I have to remind my self of that .... lol. The critters get a pass from me today.

So, here we are, beating each other up over perceptions, opinions, undocumented claims, etc., etc. It sure sounds like the world of hunting is coming apart at the seams, doesn't it? And then from the background comes the whiney voice of that great American Rodney King (*sarcasm alert*), "Can't we all just get along"? The answer to that is "Absolutely not". As long as we each have a brain, and the intellect to form opinions, there will be disagreements and some of them may become quite loud and impassioned. That's just human nature. But don't make more of it than it really is. Frankly I am glad there are open discussions about these kinds of issues. It sure is a lot better than everyone just walking in lock-step never considering the rightness or wrongness of hunting issues. The whole concept of "fair chase" and hunting ethics did not come about because people were more interested in quietly getting along than in doing things right.

I understand it. I don't agree with it, but I think most of us at one time or another have let a little Bambiism creep into our thinking. We all like to talk about how we are doing the "conservationist thing" by controlling populations. But I have to confess that I have never loaded up the gun and headed out the door thinking that today I am going to control the deer population. There definitely is something other than our usual justifications at work that drives us to head out and try to kill something. It's something primal and genetic. So if there are others that don't have that need for the hunt, I definitely understand that hunting is not for everyone. The place where I have a problem with them is when they start trying to prevent me from doing my thing.

I'm retired so one opener is as good as any .... lol. Did the change increase participation? Logically, you would think that it would, but if I go by the level of shooting, it seems to be just the opposite. I have seen participation (as perceived from the number of shots, and the car-counts in state parking lots) going down hill dramatically. But then that seems to have been started before the "Saturday opener" changes. Look, nobody wants to burn vacation days when it is not necessary. The schools and colleges have not decided to make opening day an excused day of absence. Also, in these days of corporate downsizing, just taking a day off, including vaco, may not always be an option if you want to maintain your job. So since opening day really is such an important day for deer harvests, why not make it on a day when the majority of the people already have off. Makes a lot of sense to me. Those that need an extra day for preparations or travel ..... use your vacation days there instead of for accessing opening day.

Actually, this policy has been in place for quite a few months now. So I am patiently waiting for the reports of DEC success in trapping and eliminating all those piggies. I hate to say it, but I think I'll be waiting a long time for that report ..... ha-ha-ha. The good news is that the DEC must have had a sudden infusion of resources to be able to dedicate personnel to pig-eradication.

For challenge and quality of the hunt, I far and away prefer bow hunting ..... always have. My Mathews MQ-32 still does that job as good as any of them. For meat gathering, my new buddy, the Ruger American in .270 caliber, is my weapon of choice.

Oh goody. Everyone whines about how NYS mis-manages the herd, and that they don't have the capability to do it right with what they already have on their plate. So now let's give them yet another thing to manage. We can fatten up those law books some more too. AR here but not there. AR 3 points there but over here its 4 points. Yup that's just what we need. Use their population guestimates to manage it? ......right. We have wild population swings within a single valley .....ha-ha. Most likely that is why the DEC has been dragging its feet over the issue, they have no idea how to adequately manage it.

I love the attitude that says, "Gee everything is great here I hunt. Let's have statewide AR". Damn people, not everything has further restrictions as a solution.

Well, I guess we'll just have to take your word for that. Personally I have never seen any such statistics from a credible source that didn't have a pro-AR agenda. I wish people would quote sources when they make these kinds of statements. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it would be nice if there was some credible source connected with the comment rather than expecting everyone to just nod their head. And if the info is indeed true, does the logic necessarily follow that because hunter numbers are increasing it has to be because of AR?

Always be sure of the target and what's behind it. Sounds like a nice slogan for a poster doesn't it? Well, unless you are shooting in a gravel pit or a earthen backstopped shooting range, I defy anyone to swear that there isn't some fool in full camo leaned up against a tree 100 yards behind that deer in the average woods. Well, you'll see me, even if all of me is not visible. You'll catch that flash of orange. I'm not trying to hide from you. I'm not doing my best to blend into the background.

There you go. Regulate them right the heck out of the sport if they aren't fanatical enough .... right? Hey that's another way to get bigger bucks to hang on our walls. Fewer hunters. That idea sounds like a winner. New game management concept ..... lol.

Seems logical that anything that causes frustration and failure on the overwhelming portion of antlered deer will result in more bucks and older bucks. So the question gets to be, do you want regulations that frustrate hunters. How far do you want to go with mandating frustration? 2 points on a side? .... 3 points on a side .... 5 points on a side? Just keep upping the restrictions until even more hunters quit? To my way of thinking, a hunter who holds back on taking yearlings because it is their idea, probably is achieving older deer and also not being frustrated because the restriction is his own self imposed limitation. We really are getting regulation-happy these days. It seems to be everybody's answer to everything......Pass a law.

SH-h-h-h-h...... Let the myth continue....lol. I too have noticed that gun season, the hunter population goes way down. Especially after opening day. And I would just as soon it kept going that way. The rumors of hunters slaughtering hunters is probably the only thing keeping state land a huntable option. The fact is that hunters are in much greater danger on the roads just driving to the state land than they ever are once the car is parked and they are on foot. Unfortunately, bow season (The time we really need some space) has been going the other way. That's not a comment on safety, but just an observation that points out how archery hunting has become clogged on state land. Patterning and daytime deer movement is becoming a thing of the past on state land.

It appears that they still have some of the cam theory but applied in a different way: It's not back to simple eccentrics as I first thought.

No, I think they are not telling the whole story yet. Something wacky with all of this, or they just have a pile of money they want to throw away.

It's funny. I have been hunting a quite substantial, very heavily hunted gob of state land for about 50+ years and they have never dragged a hunter dead or alive from these grounds But across the road they have had several incidents on private owned land. I don't know whether it is the myth about state lands being death traps or what, but whatever is the reason for our relatively safe state land, I hope it keeps on working. What I am afraid of is that people get so confident with their private land that they get sloppy and downright "unsafe".

When a blood trail suddenly ends, a lot of times that means that blood pressure has zeroed out. Time to do the old concentric circle trick. Of course it can also mean that the hit is superficial and that it has clotted up or been licked to stem the flow for awhile. It can also mean that the deer took an unexpected sudden change in direction and you missed it. That's also another last second maneuver just before they croak.