Doc

I suspect it is only a matter of time before that critter is dead. It is not going to end well for this guy no matter how long he manages to continue. I really hate to see any animal in this condition, and I'm sure the sooner he meets his end, the better it will be for him. That leg will not be coming off until some predator chews it off his corpse.

Where are you getting this? You actually found something that directly stated that this proposal is already funded with public and private money? I couldn't find anything of the sort on their web-site.

So, rumor has it that you need some kind of registration card proving ownership of an AR style gun before you can purchase ammo that can be fired from AR style rifles. If that is so, I am assuming that store owners would have already been advised as to the nuts and bolts of that part of the law. Database or no database, any ammo seller should be able to answer whether or not that is just B.S. or not. Has anyone asked any ammo dealer that direct question yet?

I don't know, maybe I'm somehow missing it. While I am very sympathetic to their cause, their presentation on their site is very long on vision and short on practical details or any defined plan as to who they are expecting to pick up the tab for initial development and day-to-day maintenance.

So, has anybody tested the system just to see how it actually does work? Do we have any members that are gun shop owners that sell ammunition and have to know the rules. It seems strange that at this stage of things that we are still guessing.

The three-legged deer that I have seen were generally clean amputees. They can move around such that you have to study them a bit just to see they have a leg missing. That's not the case with this one. That leg flopping around is not going to come off or knit back together. The tendon that controls that leg has obviously been severed. I too would like to imagine that somehow he will survive, and be restored to some sort of normalcy, but I honestly do not see how. Even deer have their limits. Perhaps if there is something about his home area that has a plentiful supply of easy food, and maybe no predators, he might find a way to somehow survive the winter. But honestly, I wouldn't give real good odds that he will make it through. In fact I'm not sure that just making it through the winter would be much of a victory for him. In terms of how he looks, I have seen starving deer in the Honeoye deer yard that looked very plump and fuzzy with their winter coats. It's very hard to tell a recently stressed deer simply by looking at him, especially since a wound of that sort probably hasn't caused much blood loss if any. I don't know, only time will tell.

It's a picture that I would like to see included in our hunter safety training. In fact a video of the pathetic stumbling around as that critter tries to move around would make a very important point about potential results of careless shooting if it were presented to hunter training classes.

I would guess the only reason that they have developed as a herd is the fact that they have been fenced in and likely have inbred to the point where the recessive gene is being carried from generation to generation. I suspect that the only way to have them continue as a herd would be to keep them contained in the fenced in area. Of course that raises the question as to who would then pay for the maintenance of the fence and who would absorb the value of the property. I think there is a lot more to the problem than is obvious. Yes they could be relocated (a very expensive proposition in itself), but the genetic oddity will soon be bred out of the herd within a few generations as they disperse. I think the idea of a white herd of deer is pretty neat, but there sure seems as though there would be a whole lot of practical problems trying to maintain them. So what are the suggested fixes that this group is proposing?

Absolutely .... If you make any modification whatever, be it with sandpaper or whatever, you then take on the responsibility for the problem. This is just a case of some infant mortality problem that every manufacturer periodically gets and expects. There should be no problem getting it repaired or replaced by competent people. Let them do it.

This looks to me like a crippling wound that is not lethal by itself. There is a huge tendon that has been completely severed and it will keep him from ever getting control of that lower part of his leg. It will be hanging on there like an anchor and without the bone being broken or the joint being separated, I really doubt that it will ever come off. There is enough material left there to keep it on indefinitely. I sincerely doubt that he can run in that condition to escape predators (dogs, coyotes) It's hard to say exactly what will happen to him even if he does somehow stay out of the way of predators. It's a real sad way for a deer, or any animal, to have to live out what's left of their life. I imagine that he is using up a whole lot more energy moving around than he is supposed to be, and the result of that may show up as the winter drags on. I am almost positive that it is a gunshot wound. I can't imagine how an car could have done that. When you consider how far away from the heart/lung area that hit is, it's just another reminder of what can be left behind with careless shot selection.

That is one thing that we often forget about ...... We are not the only people that want Cuomo gone. Gun owners are not alone. A motivated minority here, and a dedicated minority there and pretty soon you're talking about a voting majority. We need a whole lot less pessimism and a whole lot more action.

My Backyard: Up on top of killer hill (behind my house ... so named because it did kill my next door neighbor several years ago) are some amazing land formations, falls, and old timber. You can see why I don't hunt some of those spots. If a deer went over the edge, there is no getting them back.....lol. It has happened once and almost a couple of other times.

It works for me

You can probably keep adding oil periodically, but there is always a chance of the problem coming back at a very inopportune time (like when that buck of a lifetime have stopped at 20 yards, broadside .... lol). I would simply take it back and hope that it is not a design problem inherent in the make and model.

I truly doubt that this guy will survive the very next encounter with coyotes. And this is one time that I am glad that there are coyotes to take care of something that needs to be done but is illegal for us to take care of.

Yeah, there will be no more pictures coming from me either, or anyone else who uses Explorer. I don't know whether or not there is a work-around for that problem, but it is a feature that I no longer have on this site. Also, the emoticons can no longer be used. That's something I suppose I can live without ..... lol.

No, and that is something that goes without saying. I have been talking about getting the vote right this fall and the importance of that, and the consequences of not doing that.

$25 to join SCOPE. Anybody here that would have a problem raising that kind of money? They will need every penny they can get their hands on in the next few months to get the word out to the gun owners and convince them that the issue is worth a trip to the ballot box. It's a small enough cost to support an organization that is working hard to protect your 2nd Amendment rights. If you are not registered to vote, do it today. If you do not know who your legislators are, check out the NYS Senate page and the NYS Assembly page. They each have forms to i.d. your legislators. If you don't know how your legislators voted on the safe act. check out the "Lest We Forget" thread at the top of the page of this forum. These are all of the minimum things that should be done by every gun owner who gives a damn about the future of their gun rights and those of their descendants.

And like I said, if this next election does not go in our favor, you can expect those proposals to receive a whole lot more serious consideration. Once they learn that an anti-gun position is free from danger, the sky is the limit. In fact a win by those that signed the safe act may see that as a mandate for more aggressive gun-control legislation. These ridiculous proposals may all of a sudden grow legs.

Then it sounds like the rest of us have our work cut out for us, getting those people registered and heading for the voting booth this fall. Frankly, I don't know exactly what percentage of the general public are registered to vote or willing to vote. It could come down to whichever side does a better job of getting their people to the polls wins. Think about that. And by the way, complaining on a forum does keep the issue alive and in the faces of those that would rather just forget about it all and idly watch our 2nd Amendment rights circling the bowl. At least it shows some interest in gun issues which is the first step in election victories. I welcome such discussions and see no value in criticizing those that contribute.

Considering that it is a highschool shop project, and the fact that it's not something you do every day for an occupation, I think it is a heck of a good start that could develop into a pretty valuable skill. Also, as a hobby, it certainly looks like something that you might want to eventually get a bit serious about.

The big difference is that they now have the SAFE ACT under their belt and are now believing that the gun lobby is a paper tiger. That little bit of doubt that was in their minds before will be erased if this election doesn't come out right. All these things that used to be laughed at and dismissed might just take on a different light for them.

Anyone who thinks that gun control stops at the SAFE ACT, had better get think again. The safe act merely highlighted the fact that they can get away with unlimited constraints on personal gun ownership. There is no question about it. If they can get away with the SAFE ACT (and it looks likely), they can get away with anything .... 2nd Amendment be damned. You've only seen the beginning folks.

It would appear that you can only get little mini-spurts of excitement going. The issue was red-hot when it was passed, but it appears that gun owners have a very short attention span. I don't think it is really a chasm. There's a little something in that law to make any gun owner affected and pissed off. But I do believe that Cuomo read the gun-owning public correctly when he assessed that most gun owners can only maintain their passion for limited amounts of time. And that attention span will never last until the elections and so he is safe and so are all of his willing accomplices. Here is a list of the problems as I see them: 1. The public is apathetic and gun owners are no exception. 2. Gun owners are not joiners and despise organization. 3. Gun owners do not anticipate gun loses within their lifetimes and the can't be bothered with gun owners of the future. 4. The gun advocacy organizations have not mastered the art of dealing with the non-affiliated gun owners. 5. There is an education problem among non affiliated and un-organized gun owners and they don't want to be bothered with learning. 6. Gun owners are not willing to vote as a dedicated block and can have their votes diluted among all kinds of other issues. 7. Cuomo is a masterful politician who completely understand points 1 through 6.

Oh Hell. No chance at all for this one.