Doc

With all the great reasons to quit these days, deer hunting concerns are pretty far down the priority list.

Do you have a web address for the location of this info? I'd like to read the context and details and background of these proposals.

Yes, they rely on Citizen Task Forces (CFT) in each WMU to come up with recommended deer densities that do not conflict with the activities of represented stake-holders. see http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7207.html for a look at that process. As I have been led to believe from what I have read and a few seminars here and there, deer populations are established through the black art of statistical analysis computer programs with all kinds of inputs of some calculated harvest stats, a few formulas, a pinch of constants, and a dash of factors, and poof! ..... out pops a population number. Then that number is thrown in with the wish-list of deer densities that all the stake-holders of the CFT have agreed on, then stirred around with some more formulas, constants, and factors and out comes the number for the permits that are to be issued. Occasionally the number is about right, but there never is any physical verification methods applied, so we simply have to take their word for it that all is well .....lol.

Ha-ha..... We bowhunters sure do enjoy publicly maligning our bowhunting community don't we. These kinds of threads that advertise how many bad archers we have out there definitely leaves the impression that there are only about a dozen archers that are fit to actually be out there hunting .... lol. You would think that all the PETA folks would have to do would be to publish a few of these threads in some public media to get their points across.

Yes, there is lot more than simple training at work here. I think there are a lot fewer hours of actual hunting being logged these days as opposed to decades ago. I have made a thing out of watching the local state lands parking lots, and taking note of the actual amount of shooting that goes on locally. I have also noted that after opening day, it begins to sound quieter than your typical day o small-game season. No there are no real records on such things. About the closest thing you can follow is license sales figures, but that does not indicate the actual hours afield. So the best you can do is simply get a feel for a perceived downturn in activity. Naturally a downturn in activity would cut severely into the number of accidents. I also agree that the style of hunting can turn back accident numbers. Much of this is due to the fantastic hunting clothes that allow hunters to stay in one place without being froze out of their stands. I know we like to take credit for our hunter safety programs being responsible, and I don't doubt that they too have an impact on the numbers. But I think there is a lot more afoot that impacts these numbers that is not really getting credit.

Some of these lease situations become a bidding war. When people used to say that hunting would become a rich man's sport, it turns out that they may have been right. It sure is getting worse every year. Thank heavens for state land, but really with more and more people losing hunting access, how many hunters can the state land continue to accommodate? I realize that money was not the issue in your situation (Although it could have turned out that way). But the situation relates to the same thing ..... competition for hunting access. It's getting brutal. The costs of vacant hunting land have gotten absolutely ridiculous (because people are willing to pay whatever is asked). The amount of money that hunters are willing to drop for hunting leases has become a joke. And granting permission for hunting has gotten nearly non-existent. Today you have to be a good beggar or become slave laborer to obtain hunting permission. And now the small amount of land that is open has become a mud-wrestling match to hang onto. So what does all this say about the future of hunting?

Was it a real misunderstanding or just a case of cold feet after they realized the level of trouble they could be in for stealing that volume of expensive equipment?

It's ok if people decide not to shoot 1.5 year olds. I have no problem with whatever people decide to do for their own personal goals. We also have people that believe that 2.5 year olds should not be shot. I support their individual choice. There are others that keep wanting to push the age limit even higher. As a personal goal, I can't fault them. I actually believe there are hunters that would just as soon not even shoot anything, and that personal view is also respected by me. But none of that is the same as mandating these goals for everyone. That's a whole different kettle of fish. That's the point where we have to get serious about real, tangible, and significant reasons to put that into law. Because whether we like it or not, there are some real reasons for not taking that choice out of the hunter's hands.

It is an amazing reaction that happens to you when a gun unexpectedly goes off behind you. The first reaction was dead silence for a couple of seconds with everybody looking at each other in disbelief. Oh, and then all hell broke loose. It's some scary stuff!

That probably does not indicate a reliance on milk. Even the late births are into forage products by now.

That's funny, I was just wondering about that myself. My theory is that in this electronic media age, we are simply hearing about it more often. All the reports on here would have never even been heard about a bunch of years ago. Also, there is the fact that more and more "things" are being installed in the woods. So the opportunities have risen.

Have those changes to license structure and costs been officially put into law yet or gotten to a point where they are set in stone? The subject seems to have gone completely quiet.

What's bugging me is that I am getting to the age where vigorous activity to stay in shape is not working anymore. Example: I've had to give up some of the weight training machines at the "Y" because of muscle and joint injuries. A few weeks ago vigorous hoeing in the garden caused tendinitis in my elbow .... serious archery problem if it had been allowed to do too far. Hoeing for God's sake! Endurance on long hikes has faltered. Hip problems are taking their toll. So, much of what used to keep me in shape is being forced to the sidelines. The fact is that eventually, all our best intentions will slowly be screwed up by age. It gets to the point where you just do what you can and hope that's good enough. Even worse than staying in ready shape for hunting is the fact that there is a huge correlation between exercise and blood pressure. Reduced exercise turns into sky-rocketing blood pressure. And there is the same relationship with blood-sugar. So these vital keys to longevity are directly hooked to something that you get less and less able to do. Now there is a scary scenario.

Seriously ...... I have no idea of the cost of that kind of technology, but what a great idea. Of course it would have to be attached somewhere where you would have to destroy the item to disable the tracking device. Imagine the money that could be made if you found a cheap way to produce such a thing. You watch .... some day somebody will take your idea and get stinking rich on it.

So what's the tally of cash value taken. These guys have to be caught. Nothing is safe in the woods anymore.

I am retired and working on forgetting what that word "vacation" really means.

I still use the same stuff that I started out with ..... hot-melt glue. In fact some of the sticks are the one's that I originally started out with 50 years ago. I have never had an insert come out without re-applying heat. Of course I am talking only about aluminum shafts. Hot melt glue- can be removed or re-oriented simply with heat. Because of the waxy consistency, the glue holds up to shock and shear loads. Super-Glue and other forms of irreversible adhesives- Not known for holding up under any kind of impacts. It also is kind of permanent even when you don't want it to be. I have had times when I wanted to tune my broadheads a bit by rotating them all into the same orientation. You don't have that option if you are using some of the irreversible adhesives.

Actually our moose hunt up at Shining Tree, Ontario, Canada was self conducted. We had to hire an outfitter because the law said so, but we didn't really use him for anything other than a place to get tags. Also on our return, we used his walk-in cooler to store the moose meat before the trip home. 4 of us split the costs and it came out to be $500 each for gas, food, tags, everything. Of course that was back in the late 80's and costs were a lot different then than they are now. I have no idea what that same hunt would cost today. But the point is that there was no waiting around for year after year hoping to get a tag. And if you think the Maine waiting-game is ugly, just imagine what it will be like here in NY if and when they ever open up a moose season. My guess is that for the rest of my lifetime and probably for the lifetime of most members here, moose hunting in NYS probably will never be a practical possibility.

Speaking of stirring the pot ... lol. I have to wonder how many of these super trophy hunters use the excuse that they're waiting for the big one simply because they have trouble connecting on any deer? Ok time to take cover ...... lol. Sorry the devil mad me do it.

Folks I believe we have a winner here .... ha-ha. 303000 miles? ..... that's a hell of an accomplishment. I assume that you do your own work to keep these vehicles rolling.

I welcome the fall. It is one of my favorite seasons. However the colder weather is a reminder of the kind of crap that follows fall ...... lol. It begins to stir visions of white-outs and frozen fingers and plowing and impassable roads, stuck cars, and that helpless feeling as your car turns sideways to the road in an uncontrollable skid. Yeah, I know ..... what a wet blanket! But as soon as I get on stand all those ugly thoughts disappear.

Moose hunts are a very interesting and rewarding style of hunt to do. Been there.....done that. I will likely never hunt moose in what's left of my lifetime, and if you want a good moose hunt, it is helpful to do it in an area where moose are plentiful. I never was all that enthused about trying for moose tags, but I have had some very good hunts in Ontario Canada where tags through an outfitter were guaranteed.

I have to admit that I have never felt sad or felt remorse over a successful hunt. And yes there is a certain level of celebration that I go through. No it may not be some of the crazy stuff that you see on TV, and if I am alone, you really won't hear a thing. That doesn't mean that I am not elated. Sure I have respect for the animal to the extent that I am concerned with ending its life in as humane a way and with the least amount of suffering as I can. But my purpose for being out there hunting relates to reducing that animal to a food source, and I don't apologize for being very happy to do exactly that.

.270 American Ruger with a 3X-9X Nikon scope Before this year it was a 1969 12 gauge Model 37 Ithaca pump with a 2X Leupold extended eye relief scope (extremely deadly) .... on both ends .... lol.

I always get an instant reaction whenever I see one of these threads. Cop bashing has become a very popular sport lately, but I know a few of these people and they are simply people trying to make a living, and for the most part are involved in their profession based on public service motives. They are performing a job that most of us wouldn't take on. They operate under a system that is designed to frustrate any of them that take their job seriously. They live with a court system that had tilted so far toward the rights of the criminal, that the rights of the victims are pretty well ignored. They watch the results of their work trashed by bleeding heart judges. They are crucified when they find it necessary to defend themselves. I honestly can't understand how they get to stay in it. And then to hear this idiot making a stupid statement that we would be safer if police didn't exist, I can only be very happy that I never had an occupation where so many people loved to demonize.