Doc

Sucked in by the trolls is what you should really say. Yes I did get involved with this thread when there was some negative comments about an organization that I am proud to be a member of. And you will recall that I quickly shut you down when you tried to start in with your ridiculous attempts to discuss the pieces and parts of a crossbow again for the 500th time. I will not get sucked into that kind of repetitive foolishness. We have enough important an dinteresting stuff to be discussed without having to rely on rehashing the same old stuff over and over again.

One of the problems with lugging equipment (stands) is that in the one kind of hunting area that you want to get as far in as possible, is state land. It would be nice if you could feel comfortable leaving all that junk in there once you have dragged it all in. Sometimes going in with a full pack and stands etc. gets to be a little much for allowing you in as deep as is adviseable on crowded state land. Add to that the fact that a lot of state land consists of killer hills, carrying piles of equipment sometimes can relegate you to hunting where everybody else hunts ..... not far from the road or parking lot. For me, state land generally means traveling light. Of course I no longer use treestands, so that is no longer a concern for me. I remember once seeing another bowhunter who had just struggeled his way up the hill. He was lugging a pack, a pretty heavy-looking treestand and a few of those tree-step gizmos, and of course his bow. This guy was breathing like a steam engine, and had literally soaked through his camo. I'm not sure he had an ounce of fluids left in his body. He not only smelled like a horse from the sweat, but undoubtedly he was about to spend a long afternoon freezing from being soaked in the cold weather. That was really a whole lot more stubborness than good sense. But he did get a long ways away from the road.......ha-ha-ha.

ha-ha .... It gets to be a whole different realm when you are dealing with the unlimited souce of taxpayer wealth. budgets for such things have no standards of reasonableness. When it comes to an administration that takes pleasure in trashing the Constitution, why would we expect them to be concerned about financial restraint.

Yeah, the article is truly one of the worst written that I have ever seen. But anyway, these kinds of whiney proposals come along every year, and they never see a day's worth of success. There are all kinds of cases where these contests are really a response to a destructive over-population problem. A good example is one that can be found in the bill itself that whines about crow competitions. I am reminded of pictures on the TV of the crow problem in Rochester where they do not have the contest option available to them. The pictures showed public benches in park areas that were white with crow crap. What a filthy, opportunity for disease spread not only to humans, but within the entire bird population as well. So for Rochester, the solution has focused on making noises, and blowing off fireworks and such which is very expensive and has to be one hell of an irritant to the people that must live and work in these areas. The fact is that a lot of the critters that are targeted by these contests are no longer a species that hunters are actively hunting, and the populations are just running rampant. These contests are the only way to motivate hunters to pursue these species. The contests are serving a useful and necessary purpose.

No antler, it just seems to be getting kind of stupid to be saying the same things over and over just trying to piss people off. I mean seriously, don't you ever get tired of just trolling to irritate people. It's one thing to say that stuff once if it is a truely held opinion, you might even be tempted to say it twice, but when you are into your 3rd or 4th year of mouthing the same old crap over and over again, it becomes obvious that it is moving from a statement of opinion into just plain hopes of irritating others to respond and feed your flame-war. My gosh doesn't that sort of thing ever get tiresome? Anybody who has been here long enough remembers how Sits and I used to go at this subject in a very unfriendly fashion (to put it mildly). But even we eventually realized that nobody's mind was being changed and it was all becoming just a bunch of rancor with no purpose. I am wondering when the rest of you are going to arrive at the same conclusion......if ever. It all is said in the title of this thread. It is simply throwing gas on the fire in hopes that some name-calling and unfriendly exchanges will erupt (otherwise known as trolling). Maybe it's time to give it a rest.

Yes, it seems that we must go through these summer re-runs every year .... lol. It is a subject that never seems to lose popularity on hunting forums. But the same old rehashing of points does get a bit tiresome. The whole subject could easily continue by simply using the cut and paste function from the very first years of the debate.

Did you notice how this ad went way out of it's way to stress hunting as the primary use for a gun. They definitely want to link gun ownership and use with hunting as the only reason for owning one. That is important in pushing all kinds of future gun laws. Once they get the public accepting that hunting is the only legitimate reason to own guns, there are all kinds of further restrictions that they can put on them. I also noticed that the 2nd Amendment is never mention in any of these anti-gun ads. They want to divorce the issue from the constitution.

Yup, now there is an act that surely would have prevented the Newtown Connecticut shooting. What a bunch of blithering idiots! These legislators who proposed and voted for this crap have to be punished. They deserve to lose theri jobs. It's up to us to see to it that that happens during the next round of elections. And when that is done, we need to each write them a letter explaining just why that happened.

What an interesting thread. I don't hear too many people arguing with the fact that stark, raving, lunatics should have their guns taken away. But there is also an admission that the process of defining a true wacko and taking appropriate measures can have a whole lot of weak spots and opportunities for mis-use of power. And there are always the possibilities of intentional fraudulent accusations. It's another one of those things that sound good on the surface, but as they say, the devil is in the details.

I never had a BB-gun or anything like that to get me started. However, at a very early age (can't remember exactly when .... somewhere around 10 yrs old), I was rooting around in the shop over the garage and I found an old draw-shave. I went up on the hill and cut a hickory stave with my hatchet, and whittled the general shape of a bow out of it and used the draw-shave to tiller the limbs. I then spent days finishing a pretty darn good version of a bow. The accessories weren't quite as sophisticated .... lol. Bailing twine for a string, un-tipped and un-fletched willow arrows, and I was ready to go. My first hunting expedition was up in the top of the barn where I managed to harvest two pidgeons. They just kept flying from one beam to another and back again, so I got plenty of shots. So not only was that my first hunt, but it was also my first butchering job. When I got done they looked like two miniature chickens ... lol. My mother cooked them up and I got the first experience of hunting for my food. I was hooked for life. After that, my trapline and an old .22 that my dad gave me started me off on a life-long quest for utilizing wild natural resources for food and money. My own kids had a much more traditional introduction to hunting and trapping with me taking the lead in their outdoor education. My wife and I were still operating a trapline when the kids were small and they got to help out. Also, I often took the kids out squirrel hunting and let them do the shooting. We spent a lot of time shooting the .22 during practice sessions, and I bought each of them fiberglass recurves and arrows so that they could learn the basics of archery. When they got old enough, we all joined Avon Bowmen (wife included)and dabbled in a bit of archery competition. At that point, we were all confirmed, dyed-in-the-wool hunters.

Lol ..... How about a year with NO apples and NO acorns. That's what we had. Not one or two trees here and there, but zero. This was not only just my observation, but everyone I talked to in the valley said exactly the same thing. Now that sets you up for some widely roaming deer that are scattered far and wide looking who knows where for food. They did alright from what I am seeing, but they didn't have any of the usual kinds of preferred food for the hunters to capitalize on. That did a better job of scattering the deer than an overload of their favorite kind of food.

Well, I don't see any toilet paper nearby, so it's probably bear poop.

This was a very good example of how desparate the gun-hating left really are. They send this looney tune out to ridicule a dead man. Real class! Heaven forbid that they try to take on someone who can return the favor.

You're welcome.

Wow! This Greg Gutfield doesn't really mince any words on this freak. He sure did speak my thoughts on the guy. Way to go.

First off, I am sorry that you have problems with answers that exceed one word. But, I think if you really try real hard, you will see that there is no back-peddling ..... on my part. I know you are smarter than you are acting. By the way, my answer to your question has not changed overnight, but because of your obvious comprehension problem, I will repeat it. The answer is: yes according to your definition of what constitutes elitism and selfishness, and no from me because I reject your definition and the way you are apply those terms. Now that's exactly the same answer that I gave above, but maybe reading it for a second time, you may actually eventually get it. I think I have probably repeated that enough times for an average person to understand. Please don't continue the confusion act any more. It is getting old. As far as fighting the whole difference of opinion about the crossbow thing all over again, I invite you to research the volumes that have already been typed on that subject to get yourself back up to date. It will save us all a lot of time.

It doesn't make any sense unless the "straw purchase" law is only a NYS law. I don't know. However, it wouldn't be the first time that they have wasted time and money passing redundant laws. Everybody seems to be over-looking or ignoring the enforcement end of the violence problem. I realize that it would cause a space crisis in the penal facilities, but the idea of parole and plea bargaining and all the concerns about inmate rights has created an atmosphere where convictions are not a serious deterrent anymore. Prisons have become nothing but a training ground and a way for criminals to net when they get out. Everyone has become so hung up on controlling the guns of the legal gun owners that they have totally ignored the rest of the contributers to what they perceive as a "gun problem".

Lol ..... I don't want to ever see that again.

You know, I already have the legal right to dictate what weapons that will be used on my land. For example if I decide to make my land a no-crossbow property, I absolutely can do that. And I can enforce it too by kicking anyone's butt off the property that doesn't want to abide by my rules. The way it works is that I cannot set rules that are more liberal than the state sets, but I sure as hell can set rules on my property that are more restrictive. I can set more restrictive rules on my property regarding bag limits, size limits, hell I can even set up ARs if I want....lol. I can tell you where to hunt and how to hunt, when to hunt and even what to hunt as long as I do not exceed what the state dictates. This is my little kingdom, and I set the rules ..... ha-ha-ha.

If you insist on using those terms to describe people that believe in maintaining the integrity of a bowhunting "special season" then you are forcing that conclusion aren't you? Personally I think you have mis-characterized the NYB defense of the bow season integrity and applied some arbitrary and wrong terms as a result of your little tantrum against the NYB. And all that is based simply on a difference of opinion. I mean I assume from what you have said that once the crossbows have been jammed into bowseason, you have no problem with slamming the door again and joining the NYB with excluding certain hunters and weapons. So now what does that make you? Remember you have called that elitist and selfish haven't you? And also remember that I have not. To me I regard that kind of behavior as safeguarding the integrity of bowseason. But then, I am not the one that has tried to assign negative terms to anyone who does that. It's not really all that unclear is it?

Oh, that is absolutely true. The problem is that the events of last spring left us with total blossom wipe-out. There were absolutely no apples at all throughout the valley, and even up on the hill. Even orchards that I can never remember failing were bearen of any fruit. Also, I'm not sure what the problem with the acorns was. I suspect that they too were done in by the crazy spring weather. Early in the season, there was an early acorn drop which consisted of very few, stunted, half developed acorns which nothing seemed to be too interested in. None were white oaks (they didn't bear anything), and these shriveled up acorns were all from red oaks. They were not being eaten by anything including squirrels. The squirrels all left the Oak woods and went to the hickory stands down below. And so what exactly the deer were dining on other than lawns shrubs and my small lower field (which seemed to be getting extra heavy attention), I cannot really say. But the deer did seem to be very dispersed. It was a very unique year, and one that I hope never repeats. Yes, I have seen a few years where food was plentiful but localized to just a few trees. That was a good hunting situation. But this was the first year in memory where those varieties were completely wiped out. That didn't work well for me at all.

The problem with apple and acorn failure is that the deer who would normally establish good trails to hunt tend to have a more dispersed feeding pattern. For example, we have a few normally producing wild apple trees that become centers of feeding activity as well as rut activity. They are kind of a magnet for deer activity. Heavy beaten down trails with rubs and scrapes focus on these food sources that become a regular stop in their wandering. On top of the hill, the acorns set up some pretty reliable feed to bedding patterns. Since we no longer have any agriculture, I have become a bit dependant (perhaps too dependant) on these food sources. Last year we had neither apples of acorns. The deer did seem to wind up fat and adequately fed, so they weren't hurting for food resources, but I never did get them completely patterned. There feeding (and consequently bedding) activities were widely dispersed with not a whole lot of sign being present anywhere. Hopefully this spring will return to normal.

Yeah, it's almost a badge of honor ..... lol. These kinds of terms just generally mean that you have driven someone to the point where they can't really figure out anything intelligent to say, so they just blurt out the old tried and true cliches.

Well, as I said, you just choose a different starting point for your exclusionary, elitist and selfish attitudes (your definition not mine) to kick in. All the things that you accuse the NYB of being, fit right into your attitudes once you have crammed the crossbows into the season. You still have ideas of excluding some hunters from the early bow season and that attitude is what you are calling elitist and selfish. No difference. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being selective as to what goes into "special seasons". That's what makes them special. And that is exactly what the NYB is saying. But don't be calling the NYB names for the very same thing that you want to do. You simply have a difference of opinion with the NYB as to where to draw the line and you choose to rant and rave and villify them with name-calling because of it. If that's the way you handle differences of opinion.... well what can I say about that? That just sounds like some kind of personal problem to me......lol.

That link that Jim335 supplied looks like exactly what you want to explore all the state land in western NYS. I found that kind of interesting myself.