Doc

First off, I am sorry that you have problems with answers that exceed one word. But, I think if you really try real hard, you will see that there is no back-peddling ..... on my part. I know you are smarter than you are acting. By the way, my answer to your question has not changed overnight, but because of your obvious comprehension problem, I will repeat it. The answer is: yes according to your definition of what constitutes elitism and selfishness, and no from me because I reject your definition and the way you are apply those terms. Now that's exactly the same answer that I gave above, but maybe reading it for a second time, you may actually eventually get it. I think I have probably repeated that enough times for an average person to understand. Please don't continue the confusion act any more. It is getting old. As far as fighting the whole difference of opinion about the crossbow thing all over again, I invite you to research the volumes that have already been typed on that subject to get yourself back up to date. It will save us all a lot of time.

It doesn't make any sense unless the "straw purchase" law is only a NYS law. I don't know. However, it wouldn't be the first time that they have wasted time and money passing redundant laws. Everybody seems to be over-looking or ignoring the enforcement end of the violence problem. I realize that it would cause a space crisis in the penal facilities, but the idea of parole and plea bargaining and all the concerns about inmate rights has created an atmosphere where convictions are not a serious deterrent anymore. Prisons have become nothing but a training ground and a way for criminals to net when they get out. Everyone has become so hung up on controlling the guns of the legal gun owners that they have totally ignored the rest of the contributers to what they perceive as a "gun problem".

Lol ..... I don't want to ever see that again.

You know, I already have the legal right to dictate what weapons that will be used on my land. For example if I decide to make my land a no-crossbow property, I absolutely can do that. And I can enforce it too by kicking anyone's butt off the property that doesn't want to abide by my rules. The way it works is that I cannot set rules that are more liberal than the state sets, but I sure as hell can set rules on my property that are more restrictive. I can set more restrictive rules on my property regarding bag limits, size limits, hell I can even set up ARs if I want....lol. I can tell you where to hunt and how to hunt, when to hunt and even what to hunt as long as I do not exceed what the state dictates. This is my little kingdom, and I set the rules ..... ha-ha-ha.

If you insist on using those terms to describe people that believe in maintaining the integrity of a bowhunting "special season" then you are forcing that conclusion aren't you? Personally I think you have mis-characterized the NYB defense of the bow season integrity and applied some arbitrary and wrong terms as a result of your little tantrum against the NYB. And all that is based simply on a difference of opinion. I mean I assume from what you have said that once the crossbows have been jammed into bowseason, you have no problem with slamming the door again and joining the NYB with excluding certain hunters and weapons. So now what does that make you? Remember you have called that elitist and selfish haven't you? And also remember that I have not. To me I regard that kind of behavior as safeguarding the integrity of bowseason. But then, I am not the one that has tried to assign negative terms to anyone who does that. It's not really all that unclear is it?

Oh, that is absolutely true. The problem is that the events of last spring left us with total blossom wipe-out. There were absolutely no apples at all throughout the valley, and even up on the hill. Even orchards that I can never remember failing were bearen of any fruit. Also, I'm not sure what the problem with the acorns was. I suspect that they too were done in by the crazy spring weather. Early in the season, there was an early acorn drop which consisted of very few, stunted, half developed acorns which nothing seemed to be too interested in. None were white oaks (they didn't bear anything), and these shriveled up acorns were all from red oaks. They were not being eaten by anything including squirrels. The squirrels all left the Oak woods and went to the hickory stands down below. And so what exactly the deer were dining on other than lawns shrubs and my small lower field (which seemed to be getting extra heavy attention), I cannot really say. But the deer did seem to be very dispersed. It was a very unique year, and one that I hope never repeats. Yes, I have seen a few years where food was plentiful but localized to just a few trees. That was a good hunting situation. But this was the first year in memory where those varieties were completely wiped out. That didn't work well for me at all.

The problem with apple and acorn failure is that the deer who would normally establish good trails to hunt tend to have a more dispersed feeding pattern. For example, we have a few normally producing wild apple trees that become centers of feeding activity as well as rut activity. They are kind of a magnet for deer activity. Heavy beaten down trails with rubs and scrapes focus on these food sources that become a regular stop in their wandering. On top of the hill, the acorns set up some pretty reliable feed to bedding patterns. Since we no longer have any agriculture, I have become a bit dependant (perhaps too dependant) on these food sources. Last year we had neither apples of acorns. The deer did seem to wind up fat and adequately fed, so they weren't hurting for food resources, but I never did get them completely patterned. There feeding (and consequently bedding) activities were widely dispersed with not a whole lot of sign being present anywhere. Hopefully this spring will return to normal.

Yeah, it's almost a badge of honor ..... lol. These kinds of terms just generally mean that you have driven someone to the point where they can't really figure out anything intelligent to say, so they just blurt out the old tried and true cliches.

Well, as I said, you just choose a different starting point for your exclusionary, elitist and selfish attitudes (your definition not mine) to kick in. All the things that you accuse the NYB of being, fit right into your attitudes once you have crammed the crossbows into the season. You still have ideas of excluding some hunters from the early bow season and that attitude is what you are calling elitist and selfish. No difference. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being selective as to what goes into "special seasons". That's what makes them special. And that is exactly what the NYB is saying. But don't be calling the NYB names for the very same thing that you want to do. You simply have a difference of opinion with the NYB as to where to draw the line and you choose to rant and rave and villify them with name-calling because of it. If that's the way you handle differences of opinion.... well what can I say about that? That just sounds like some kind of personal problem to me......lol.

That link that Jim335 supplied looks like exactly what you want to explore all the state land in western NYS. I found that kind of interesting myself.

I'm from the organization, and I'm setting the record straight. Perhaps you are looking for some kind of official reply as I suggested in my last reply. Sorry, but you lost the right to that kind of response when you quit the organization. And yes you can sit out there taking cheap pot-shots, true or otherwise. Nobody's going to stop you. And I'm not trying to stifle anything. But I just want people to understand the lack of credibilty that such comments represent. I can't simply sit by and let such trash-talk happen without some truth being injected somewhere along the line.

Ha-ha .... I see that you are just dying to start that whole redundant clap-trap of an argument about why cross bows belong in archery season. But I won't bite on that nonsense. I and many others have already described in detail why they don't belong there and I refuse to repeat it all over again. I have better things to do with my time. But let me get into your bogus name-calling when it comes to the NYB. Let me explain to you the real bottom line. The fact is that when the chips are down, there's not a dime's worth of difference between your own "selfish and elitest" exclusionary attitudes and the way that the NYB tried to draw the lines. They draw it before crossbows and you claim to be drawing it after crossbows. The interesting thing is that both you and the NYB are drawing lines. If you want something to puke about, check out your own picking and choosing about what should be allowed in the early season because in truth you are claiming to be picking and choosing what belongs in bowseason just like they are. But for some reason you think it is selfish and elitist when they do it. Yes, you have decided that we can cram in just one more weapon into bowseason, and then you become just as exclusionary, as anyone, don't you? So you are also among the selfish and elitist aren't you? Damned right you are. You just want to jam crossbows into the bowseason before you become "selfish and elitist".... lol. I don't know whether you can see the hypocracy in calling the NYB names for the very same thing that you claim to want to do. When you get into name calling, make sure you are not describing actions that you are guilty of as well.

I simply call them like I see them. You and your friends seem to have had all the problems with the NYB while I and others have had our opinions (and demands) listened to and reacted to on that issue. I would suggest that perhaps your friends should pay a little attention to the organization that they are members of like the rest of us did, and react to things that they have problems with. This one and only bowhunter organization is operating on the up and up, and doing their best to safeguard the integrity of the bowhunting season and many other bowhunter interests and issues which is a whole lot more than you and all the other detractors are doing and I respect the fact that these guys are putting in the hours and efforts that so many refuse to invest in the sport. And so, don't expect me to stand idly by while you fill the pages of this forum with what I can only call lies. There just is no other word for it. When you put forth this kind of campaign of deceit against an honest, hard-working organization that I am a member of, you're damned right I take it personal ..... mighty personal! Frankly I am getting sick and tired of your campaign to smear this organization, and it is about time that someone on this forum called you on it. I'm a member of the NYB, and I am just as stubborn and protective of bowhunting issues as they are. Oh and one more thing ..... just who do you think you are that you expect some kind of official reply from NYB. You aren't even a member. They don't owe you any kind of answer anymore, and there's no way you should be expecting any.

What part of the state are you interested in?

I have no idea what this thread is really all about, but the "boxing" deer picture is pretty neat.

And of course all that is just simply a lie. There are no depths that some won't sink to in their attempt at seeing that bowhunting remains in a disorganized state here in NY. The truth of it all is that I as a member did know about the muzzle loader compromise attempt. And I recognized it as basic appeasement and a wrong-headed attempt at compromise. I did respond along with many other members, and it no longer is a proposal. As I said in the reply that you obviously didn't read, the system worked exactly as it is supposed to. The members drove the change. That's the truth from someone who really was there at the time. It's amazing how those that aren't even members seem to speak so authoritatively about things they know nothing about. Yes, I realize that you are a past member, in and out a couple of administrations ago. Now you find it much easier to simply sit on the sidelines carping and whining with your sour grapes at a group that you no longer know a damned thing about. I really don't care much about whatever bad experience you may have had years ago. For all I know it may have been something you brought on yourself. Who knows .... Who cares? But I do get a bit upset with people who blatently spread lies under the pretense of actually knowing what they are talking about.

Ha-ha .... but at least my car-licking deer will have enough salt in their diet. You should see how nice and clean the back of my car is now. It's become a huge rolling deer popcicle.

Yup, that's how it is supposed to work isn't it? If the leadership of an organization that you belong to comes up with something that most of the members disagree with, and if you are a member, you can gather support and shoot it down. Unlike the free-loaders that never join anything but simply sit along the sidelines making a lot of worthless noises. I sent a rather strongly worded message to the president of NYB (apparently along with a whole lot of other members), and yes, that deal was quickly dropped. I would say that the system worked exactly right. It's funny how I and a whole bunch of other members knew about early enough to stop it. However, I do find it a bit hilarious that the NYB is called selfish (oh and that favorite word "elite" that anti-NYB people think is so clever) when they take a hardline against crossbows, but then are called traitors when they try to negotiate a settlement with others that are trying to shove their way into bow season. It sounds like they are kind of stuck in a no-win set of attitudes from those that really couldn't care less and who aren't all that consistant in their criticisms. That really does point out just what the attitudes are against organized bowhunters. I happen to agree that it was an ill-conceived plan that should never have been put forth. And it does show a weakness of listening to all these people who carp about their hard-line approach to protecting bow-hunting. I do believe they learned their lesson about appeasement and compromise. Probably one they won't soon forget.

Snow depths have the most impact, but low temps also mean calories burned. Neither condition is good when it continues too long after the normal winter length. We haven't had our normal March storm yet and I hope we don't. This is not a good time to be seeing any extremes of winter. The good news is that this is a lot closer to normal than last year was. Who knows, maybe I will get some fruit off my trees this year. Last year was the "perfect storm" for screwing up blossom survival. Early hot weather for forcing blossoms out way to early and then several days of hard frosts after the blossoms were out. I don't believe there was an apple anywhere in the valley.

Getting rid of the stock would be a good start.

I wonder how the crossbow activists will welcome giving up part of their season to the early muzzleloading season when that finally gets pushed in. Can I expect you to continue with your "non-elitest" attitude by inviting anyone into the bow season that tries to force themselves in or are you going to join the hypocrits that speak a good game of being unselfish until it affects you. Let's see how you all react when the shoe is on the other foot. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised either way. On one hand you talk about the NYB being a tiny minority in the hunting community (which they are) and then out the other side of your mouth you claim they are bullies. Actually the term bully is a stupid term to be using. If you want to say that this organization was very effective for their size and resources at defending the integrity of bowhunting and bowseason, then I will agree with you. They do seem to function very effectively when their back is against the wall and they are being attacked. I suppose that is what really irks you about them. For such a tiny organization, they sure did keep the antibow forces at bay for a heck of a long time. Anyway, twist whatever you feel you must about the truth, but the one thing you cannot twist is the fact that the crossbow factions were the aggressors in this issue. They were the ones that decided to insert themselves into bow seasons. No amount of lying or name-calling, or stretching of the truth will hide that fact. Demonize the only NYS bowhunting advocates if that's what floats your boat. Deny all the accomplishments and good works that they do if that makes you feel better, but for crying out loud try to be a little bit honest in whatever personal problems you have with them and recognize that if the crossbow proponents hadn't decided to bulldoze their way into the sport of bowhunting, none of this angst would have ever occurred. So when the Rodney King fans come along and start whining, "Can't we all just get along", understand just who it was that had no interest in "just getting along". No, the NYB didn't fold up when put under attack, and I do thank them for doing their job in the best way possible given their size and resources.

The deer have had a reasonable winter so far. But this March has been consistantly below average in temperature and the way I hear it, April is supposed to be below average as well. That is extending winter beyond the length that is normal. The longer winter is what stresses the deer more as the deer are starting to run low on reserves. The older deer still look pretty good, but some of the fawns are starting to look a little "ribby". I think your dropping some saplings for them may be a life-saver for some of those fawns.

If I can get them all trained to enjoy this salty delicacy, that may solve the problem of trying to take the car to the carwash periodically. Right now judging from the tracks, there is only one that has used my car as a snack.

Ha-ha .... a day late and a dollar short. No, it's good to learn from the past, but I will believe it when I see it. At any rate, if they don't sieze the opportunities that are handed them, and they can't re-ignite the passions of the gun owners who today feel they have been wronged, another golden oppportunity to use a voting block that should be tightly united, will be lost. My biggest fear is that the unity we now enjoy will fade into oblivion and be replaced with other unrelated issues, which will leave the Republicans or whoever with nothing to exploit against these gun-grabbing vermin. Also, lets not forget that this really is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. Pay attention to how many Republicans voted for this law. The punishments cannot be limited to just one party. The message needs to get out that anti gun votes cost gun owner's votes, and that legislators can be evicted for anti-gun attitudes and voting records, regardless of party.

Hundreds of man-hours have been spent on this site explaining how it matters. If you really are interested go back and review the past couple of years of posts and replies. Let's not start re-hashing them all over again. The fact is that it is not a matter of whether crossbows are going to shoved into bow season but when. My only concern on this topic is merely keeping the record straight and maintaining an honest portrayal as to who it was that was the initial aggressor in this fight. Because the organization that everyone has been so gleefully trashing will be the very one that they will all be calling on for help in the future when the next aggressor comes along to claim their chunk of the bowseason.