Doc

The jury is still out as to whether the mental health portions of that law will improve or make worse the number of crazies being denied weapons. I'm not sure how many will be ducking mental treatments with a "snitch" law in effect. I believe that is what doctor patient confidentiality has always been about. This law may turn out to be responsible for even more untreated, unmedicated looneys being on the street, particularly those that are intent on misusing firearms (the old law of unintended consequences). As far as background checks on ammunition sales, I sincerely do believe that that is simply a complete waste of time and resources and designed to eliminate mail-order purchase of ammunition and reloading components. That is pure anti-2nd amendment harrassment activity against legitiment law abiding gun owners. In fact for those that do not have a local outlet of bullet components, it may actually eliminate that activity completely.

Unfortunately, there is no official division of time use in the normal public lands. And so we find the woods flooded with all kinds of conflicting uses during bow season. I have yet to see anyone using the state lands for anything other than hunting during the gun season ..... yet. I think gun season has a very undeserved perception of being unsafe, and maybe that's good. Ha-ha ... but nobody's afraid of bowhunters. It's kind of pathetic, but still makes me break out laughing watching these guys prancing through the woods like some kind of a gazelle, dressed in their little flourescent spandex shirts and shorts through the middle of the top of the hill. It is a bit weird when you're not used to it. But anyway back to the topic of the future hunting, I do believe that this sort of thing will definitely increase as the rest of the population figures out more varieties and intensities of state land usage. It may have already happened that some state lands have been installing some primitive ski slopes, or openening up snowmobile usage. It may be only a matter of time before ATV trails are established in some of the state lands. Picnic and camping facilities may take over some of the prime hunting spots. Those that are struggling to find hunting land who have finally resorted to state lands may not always be very satisfied with what state lands have to offer in the future. Yeah, that's just a bunch of theorizing, but it is not imagination that is not backed up with at least some initial examples that we can point to right now.

That may be the case. I really don't know. I am just saying be safe and check. It's so darn easy to break laws and get into trouble these days without even knowing it. By the way, let us know what they say. It would be interesting.

I really have mixed feelings about that. It is amazingly frustrating to have several hours invested in an evening hunt and then have a group of bikers roll by laughing and yelling back and forth to each other. Even at 100 or 200 yards, they wake up the whole woods. But I too have interests other than hunting and know how aggravated I would be at hunters if I was shut down during all of the hunting seasons. I do some hiking, and I understand that there is nothing like a nice walk in the woods. If I were booted out of the woods by hunters, I would probably eventually develop a very intense dislike for hunters. Also, those sunny, colorful days of fall are some of the favorites of the bikers and hikers and also right smack into the bow season. We are all taxpayers. So, like I say ..... I have mixed feelings about kicking one group of people out of the woods in favor of another group. As far as gun season, those people really are not out there. They are scared to death of us I guess ..... lol.

That too is changing, depending on where you hunt. I have a section of state land that I hunt that is now interlaced with a maze of mountain bike trails. And of course the trails also make excellent hiking trails for literally mobs of people. I don't want to get into a discussion about who has what rights when it comes to state land, but I will say that these trails are very well used during bow season. There are many areas that used to be excellent hunting spots that are now so filled in with trails that it is very difficult to get out of sight or sound of the gangs of bikers and hikers that use them. In those areas, the deer are absolutely nocturnal. There no longer is any practical daytime deer movement throughout the early Fall. Now that the season is open even earlier, that problem will be even worse. I don't know whether this is just the beginning of the multi-use public facilities that our state lands are evolving into, but when this happens on hunting land, the only natural movement of deer is well after dark.

So, I was putting my bowling ball into the back of the car and I spotted deer tracks walking right up to the car. I thought that was kind of cool, but I didn't know the half of it. When I got out to the bowling alley parking lot, I was behind the car to get my ball when I spotted a funny pattern of clean spots on the back of the car. I started to look at my pants to see what kind of a mess I got into when I realized that those clean spots weren't from rubbing my pants on the car. They were small "tongue-sized" marks. Those goofy deer were licking the salt off my car.....lol. I guess I have been maintaining an illegal salt-lick at my house.

The first thing to do is to make sure you have the right to possess one. I don't believe there is an open season on flying squirrels. I have not looked it up, so I am not going to swear to that, but I suggest that you do look it up. It may be that just like owls, hawks, and any other protected species, there is no legal way to have one in your possession. So it is possible that inquiries to any taxidermist might result in a knock on your door from a local game warden. I don't know if this warning is a true concern, but it is just a thought that popped into my mind and I figured I would pass along that thought so you can see to it that you don't accidently get yourself in any trouble. Check it out.

I bought these 40 rounds when I bought the gun. That's generally what I do whenever I get a new gun. I want something to shoot right away while I am waitings for bullets, powder, brass, dies, etc. for loading. I really don't count on factory loads for absolute accuracy. They are just to get a quick try-out on the gun in case there are any problems. So while I do not count on factory ammo for precision shooting, one would expect at least the minimum in care and quality control from someone who claims to be a reputable ammunition manufacturer. The mangled things that they were peddleing really have no reason to ever see a store's shelves. And when for some unexplainable reason they do make it to a store and into a consumer's possession, there is no question that they should be bending over backwards to not only make it all financially right, but there should even be some extra compensation for consumer good-will and to make up for the grief and aggravation. I have to say that I am thoroughly disgusted with Winchester, and it will surely be reflected with my refusal to ever buy any of their ammunition or ammunition components.

Sure enough, I would imagine that keeping the peace in a school would require far more skills than just knowing how to shoot. For one thing, a guy would have to know how to handle himself in unarmed confrontations also where hand-to hand confrontations might be the required method against some 230 pound football player. He would have to know how to talk down potential violent situations, he would have to expert at not making "friendly-fire" kinds of errors in an armed incursion. He might even have some alternative peace-keeping duties that require mediation to keep or restore order in other emergencies such as fire situations. Procedures and protocols would have to be 2nd nature for him. And, as a last resort he would have to know his way around armed confrontations, particularly where several intruders are coming in at once. I don't see it as being an easy job, and I don't see any reason why the training for that job should not be specialized and unique and vigorous. But I agree, it seems as though most folks look at security jobs as being a half a step higher than the custodian. That's too bad that they don't treat the job with the skills-package and expectations that it should require. And that is why you get these kinds of incidents such as accidental gun discharges. You get what you pay for.

Here we are in the midst of an all out battle to protect the 2nd Amendment and we have these wackos pulling a stunt like this. I'll tell you, we are in the middle of a "perfect storm" when it comes to our own voluntary destruction of gun ownership. They are coming at us from all sides and we are doing our best to validate all the claims against us.

I think the question of motive will be answered when they complete interviewing friends and relatives. Someone who is so disturbed about something to the point he is willing to shoot somebody over it is usually not very quiet about it before hand.

Well, that's kind of what I was expecting from them. I first sent the pictures shown in the initial post to show the damage. and then they required shipping them the two boxes of ammo ($14.00) which I expected to be reimbursed for and tehn to be refunded less than what I paid with no credit for tax, and nothing for grief and aggravation. I thought that was a bit of a slap in the face. Obviously standing behind their product and customer satisfaction is not much of an active practice at Winchester.

I have always maintained that armed school guards should have a standardized training program so that people of that position know all aspects of gun safety, and how to handle likely scenarios that could happen in a school setting, and the unique methods that school grounds might require (armed reactions as well as hand-to-hand reactions). It is not a position for the local Barney Fife type to be holding. And when an incident such as this occurs, it should be a case of no second chances, and that should be understood at the time of hiring. This is a responsible position that should have corresponding compensation, and training that reflects the seriousness of their responsibilities.

When they get ammo on sale, let me know...... lol.

This stuff is getting out of control. First you are risking your drinking water, and the well doesn't even have to be on your property. Now it looks like there is the risk of explosion. And the beauty of it all is that it benefits nobody but a handful of landowners. Everybody gets to share in the risks, and the only people that benefit are a couple of landowners here and there. Give me a break!

Winchester got me! After months of being ignored in my attempts to contact Winchester about the above pictured crap of theirs that I bought (take a look at the photos in the initial post), I finally got paid for the messed up garbage that was sold to me ....... Kind of. They sent me two certificates for replacement ammo at $20 each, good only at local retail outlets (not on-line). However it all adds up to a $21 loss for me. $21.99 Cost of 1 box $21.99 Cost of the 2nd box $3.08 Tax for above (Rounded down to 7%) $14.00 To ship the crap back to Winchester $61.06 Total cost $61.06 Total cost -$40.00 Reimbursement from Winchester $21.06 My loss for their messed up manufacturing and quality control. And the best thing about all this is that the certificates state it is to be used for Winchester ammunition products. As has been well noted on this site, trying to buy anything that has to do with ammunition these days is just about impossible with no end to that situation in sight. Oh, and from what I can tell, the certificates are not valid for internet sales, so I have to wait until .270, 150 grain, Winchester ammo happens to become available in a local store. Who knows when that's likely to happen? So, if I sound a bit irritated with Winchester ammo ...... I am! They may have screwed me this time, but I will guarantee it will never happen again.

Most likely they will be making an example out of this guy with maximum penalties and the whole thing.

So, one thing that I haven't heard anything about is motive. Have they published anything about why he went after the ones that he went after?

Well, that sounds like a potential situation that I should be welcoming into my back yard .....Eh? Oh but wait, there are all kinds of people telling us that the process is absolutely safe. They would lie to us would they?

I think you're probably pretty safe there. These guys don't have the time it takes to put in that kind of hunt. After all, they have to drop the kids off at the babysitters, log a couple hours hunting and get back to pick the kids back up and then do some shopping and then drop back off at the babysitters so they can make to the afternoon bridge game and then head over to bowling so that they can get home in time to watch American Idol. In a few more years they'll just drop the hunting part of the day so they can get involved in a lot more stuff.

Right now we are hanging everything involving guns on the 2nd Amendment, as one would assume they could logically do. However, there have been gun laws that spit on the 2nd Amendment that have gotten passed and have become the law of the land. There have been legal challenges relating to the constitutionality of those laws that have been repeatedly shot down in the courts to the point where no one seems to have any problem proposing and passing even the most outrageous attacks on that amendment. This latest Cuomo gun-grab is clearly unconstitutional in my mind and yet there is a very real possibility that it will withstand all legal challenges that we can through at it. So, with those kinds of free-for-all legal interpretations that the 2nd Amendment has been subjected to, I'm not sure how much we can really count on it to protect us against a U.N. assault if they are somewhat careful about how they word it and what the contents of their proposals entail. Yes, they will need plenty of accomplices within this country to pull it off, but with guys like Obama, and perhaps followed by that crazy-eyed Cuomo creep, and all the other gun-grabbers that surround them in the government, there really doesn't look to be any shortages of "inside-men". I too would likje to think that we have iron-clad protection in the 2nd Amendment, but these days it doesn't seem to even be able to protect us from forces inside this country. I'm not sure that I have any confidence left that it will protect us from forces outside of the country either.

The only assault weapon that I have ever seen is Andy Cuomo. That little bug-eyed freak is an assault on every law abiding gun owner and he has turned out to be a dangerous weapon against the 2nd Amendment.

Yeah, this is the time that I start to really go berserk with the length of winter. And yet, they are talking about below normal temperatures for as far as they are willing to forecast. I've had enough!

I wonder how many other guys that maybe were planning on holding up a cabbie or looking at some other individuals and professions as being an easy mark are today reconsidering that thought because of this incident. Sometimes being a "bad-guy" can have some serious down-sides ..... lol. And sometimes being prepared can have some good teaching benefits for others that may have crime on their mind. Too bad we don't have more "teachers" of this kind. The world would be a much safer place.

If I lived next to one of those anti-gun people, I wouldn't hesitate for one minute to put that kind of sign up in my yard. It sure does put the point across.