Doc

I don't care what you call it, it still comes out pretty darn smart....lol. Running away would be more of an instinctual reaction. To me, it looked like a learned and reasoned out act. She saw the danger and figured out that letting the hunter pass was a way to safety. It wasn't like she was frozen in fear. She was really quite deliberate in the way she laid down inside of adequate cover. She had it figured out that if she laid down and sat tight, the danger would pass. As it turned out, it was a pretty darn smart way to escape the hunter. I'll tell you something that I learned about other critters that are very similar to deer. We used to have a couple of goats. They were fenced into a pasture that had a door-like gate for an entrance. It wasn't too long before I found the goats wandering around the yard. I put them back, and before I got up to the house, the gate was open and they were heading for one of our prized shrubs. So, I locked them back up and watched how they were getting out. The next thing I knew, one of the goats reared up on his hind legs and planted her front legs against the gate while she picked at the hook until she got it unlatched. That goofey goat had watched me everytime I went in and out and realized that the hook on the gate was the thing she had to work to get it open. She not only figured that out, but realized exactly what motion the hook had to go through to come loose from the fence staple that the hook worked with. There was no instinct involved there. That was 100% learned behavior. I'll bet there's probably not a lot of difference in intelligence between a goat and a deer. They both are capable of learning what works.

From the article: "Several veterans and their advocates say it would deter many from seeking counseling and medications to deal with post-traumatic stress disorder or other psychological issues. Veterans fear their rights would be taken away." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was the first thought that popped into my mind. We may have a whole bunch of mentally disturbed people not being treated because of this "tattle-tale" portion of the law. This may actually make matters even worse by increasing the number untreated people on the streets. I understand the intent of that provision, but like so many things that are so well intentioned, not enough thought is given to the resulting unintended consequences.

This guy is really getting out of control. He is taking on the Justice Branch of the government now. Watch him closely. You may be looking at the kind of president he will be if he should be elected to that office. This guy is scarey.

Whenever the discussion of deer intelligence comes up, I am reminded of back when I was a new hunter, hunting on my uncle's place. I had an elevated position that looked down on a swamp. I saw a big doe that was not a legal shooter at the time. She was standing up looking intently at an approaching hunter. She laid down in the cat-tails, and let this guy pass within 15 or 20 feet of her. Once he was out of sight, she slowly walked off in the other direction. I believe that this tactic is used a lot more than we know, and may well explain why after opening day, all the deer seem to disappear. Pretty darned smart.

Bow. When I get too old and feeble to use my bow, and assuming I am still fit enought to climb our "killer hill", the shotgun or rifle will do just fine. If I can't lift my rifle or climb the hill, then probably it is time to quit .... lol. Pretty simple for me.

Speaking of changes in hunting over long periods, I was reading an artical in the American Hunter yesterday that was about how state lands have changed over the years since they were first purchased. The article was about publically owned lands across the country and not just NYS. However, I can see what they were saying even here in our own state. The article was pointing out how states take mostly a hands-off policy regarding maintenance of public lands. And so over the decades from the time they were mostly farming lands, they have matured and moved through the transitional habitat that most wildlife requires, into heavy over-story kinds of lands that are very unfriendly to deer, rabbits, grouse, etc., and are moving toward a sterile kind of habitat that cannot support a whole lot of wild critters. With only a few rare exceptions there really has not been any kind of habitat management to create the diversity needed to support a diverse population of critters. They didn't mention it, but I have seen the same thing happening in private forests as well. As the nation's lands keep getting divided up and then divided up again, over and over, the new generations of landowner think there is something good in keeping habitat forever wild. The idea of logging state forests doesn't seem to be a very popular one within the general (uneducated in the ways and needs of wildlife) public, and so the management agencies are reluctant to do what they know should be done. Also shrinking budgets eliminate a lot of the options for changing the situation. So anyway, perhaps we will see hunting impacted by this unwise neglect of habitat. It may actually turn out that even small game hunting will be impacted, and we may find severe shortages of things to hunt because of it.

People react to these gun control threats in a lot of peculiar ways. Most of the time the reactions aren't the slightest bit rational. A few decades from now, there will be a lot of people with some old green ammo kicking around from closet to closet ..... lol.

It looks like Walgreens has sales and processing for film. A quick search on Google ("35 millimeter filmprocessing") gives all kinds of sources for buying fim as well as getting it purchased. I too would recommend switching to all digital, but that isn't what you asked.

No, the best option is to fight the law in the courts (which is already in progress). The second best idea is to vigorously lobby your legislators to guarantee that if this law does go down in the courts that a brand new one does not get authored and passed that doesn't have the illegal aspects to it. That is a serious option that we should be doing on a regular and repetitive basis already. Another necessary option is to check which ones of your state legislators voted for this law and ensure that you nor anybody you can convince votes against them (regardless of what kind of jerk is running against them). Make it known that voting with anti-gun intentions does cost them. License boycotts are not reliable because hardly anyone will ever take that action seriously and participate. Also, you have no guarantees that it will be only one season that it will cost you. And also, it is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. As hunters, there is nothing to be gained by trying to destroy the agency that is charged with game management. That's the wrong target.

Lol ..... I suspect that there probably won't be as many people interested in becoming felons as you may think. By the way, did you know that a felony as a result of non-compliance with this law could result in all your guns being confiscated and the right to ever buy another one would be forfeited?

Lol .... we have a lot of geese that never left.

I have an overhead bird feeder that they haven't caught onto yet. Ever see those old-timey clothes-lines That used to run from the upper stories of apartment buildings, with pulleys and things. Well that's how our bird feeder is arranged. We have a raised ranch, and the line runs from the kitchen window to one of the trees in the woods behind the house. Keeps everything up good and high. We can pull it in to fill it and send it back out a ways so the birds will go to it.

Yeah, I got caught this morning. I had everything all scheduled out for the day, and started the day off 1 hour in the hole when wifey reminded me to set the clocks ahead.

Sounds good.I'll have to try it.

You know, it wasn't that long ago that I was on stand, being as quiet as possible, paying attention to wind direction, all camoed up and trying to be motionless, only to get picked off at 50 yards or more when I tried to lift my bow into position or even draw the string back. While still-hunting, the slightest mis-step or shift in wind direction would send the deer charging away. They definitely were displaying some of the wiliest behavior, instincts and defensiveness of anything in the woods. Ok, so here we are in March. The law says I cannot shoot these guys and magically they seem to have read those laws and looked at that calendar and decided that they really don't have to worry about me now. It all was made so blatently clear when we arrived home late yesterday afternoon. When I pulled into my parking spot, there was a deer standing a short distance up the bank behind the house ...... just staring at the car. That was about 20 yards away. I expected when the car doors opened he would take off like a crazy-thing and head up the hill. Instead my wife opened her door and got out, and said something like "Hi-there", and he immediated came off the hill like some tame pet and walked towards us and down under the bird feeder. Now it was about 15 yards away. So I got out slammed the door and walked into the house. I got upstairs and looked out the window and sure enough, there he was working over the seeds that the birds had dumped out of the feeder....two feet from the house. In just a few months they had learned that I was no longer a threat. So just how smart are these critters? And who is supplying them with the calendars and a copy of the game laws?

Vote List for A2388/S2230 – NY SAFE act This is the voting list for the recently passed A2388/S2230 NY SAFE act. The list shows the Senate Committee vote as well as the floor vote in both the Senate and the Assembly. The AYE votes are votes to violate your firearm rights. The NAY votes are votes to protect your firearm rights. Call, write or email the Senators and Assemblymen and thank those who voted to protect your rights, and condemn those who voted to violate your rights. You can look up your State Senator at: http://www.nysenate.gov/senators You can look up your State Assemblyman at: http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/ This list can be downloaded as a .pdf file here: http://www.wcfoany.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/A2388-Silver-S2230-Vote-Listing.pdf NY Secure Firearms and Ammunition Enforcement (SAFE) Act of 2013 (S2230 Klein / A2388 Silver) SENATE COMMITTEE VOTE: – Rules – Jan 14, 2013 VOTING TO INFRINGE YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Ayes (18): Skelos, Libous, Carlucci, Flanagan, Fuschillo, LaValle, Marcellino, Valesky, Stewart-Cousins, Breslin, Dilan, Hassell-Thompson, Krueger, Montgomery, Parker, Perkins, Espaillat, Gianaris; Ayes W/R (1): Hannon VOTING TO PROTECT YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Nays (6): Bonacic, Farley, Larkin, Maziarz, Nozzolio, Seward SENATE FLOOR VOTE: – Jan 14. 2013 Ayes (43) Nays (18) Excused (1) VOTING TO INFRINGE YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Ayes: Adams, Addabbo, Avella, Boyle, Breslin, Carlucci, Diaz, Dilan, Espaillat, Felder, Flanagan, Fuschillo, Gianaris, Gipson, Golden, Grisanti, Hannon, Hassell-Thompson, Hoylman, Kennedy, Klein, Krueger, Lanza, Latimer, LaValle, Marcellino, Martins, Montgomery, O’Brien, Parker, Peralta, Perkins, Rivera, Sampson, Sanders, Savino, Serrano, Skelos, Smith, Squadron, Stavisky, Stewart-Cousins, Valesky Ayes: 43; (Democrat:32 Republican:11) VOTING TO PROTECT YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Nays: Ball, Bonacic, DeFrancisco, Farley, Gallivan, Griffo, Larkin, Libous, Little, Marchione, Maziarz, Nozzolio, O’Mara, Ranzenhofer, Ritchie, Robach, Seward, Young Nays: 18; (Democrat:0 Republican:18) Excused: Zeldin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ASSEMBLY FLOOR VOTE: – Jan 15, 2013 Ayes (104) Nays (43) Excused (3) VOTING TO INFRINGE YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Ayes: Abbate, Abinanti, Arroyo, Aubry, Barrett, Barron, Benedetto, Boyland, Braunstein, Brennan, Bronson, Brook-Krasny, Buchwald, Cahill, Camara, Castro, Clark, Colton, Cook, Curran, Cusick, Cymbrowitz, DenDekker, Dinowitz, Englebright, Espinal, Fahy, Farrell, Galef, Gantt, Gibson, Gjonaj, Glick, Goldfeder, Gottfried, Heastie, Hennessey, Hevesi, Hikind, Hooper, Jacobs, Jaffee, Kavanagh, Kellner, Kim, Lavine, Lentol, Lifton, Vito Lopez, Losquadro, Lupinacci, Magnarelli, Maisel, Malliotakis, Markey, Mayer, McDonald, McDonough, McKevitt, Miller, Millman, Morelle, Mosley, Moya, Nolan, O’Donnell, Ortiz, Otis, Paulin, Peoples-Stokes, Perry, Pretlow, Quart, Ra, Ramos, Roberts, Robinson, Rodriguez, Rosa, Rosenthal, Rozic, Russell, Ryan, Santabarbara, Scarborough, Schimel, Sepulveda, Silver, Simanowitz, Simotas, Skartados, Solages, Steck, Stevenson, Stirpe, Sweeney, Thiele, Titone, Titus, W einstein, Weisenberg, Weprin, Wright, Zebrowski Ayes: 104; (Democrat:96 Republican:7 Independent:1) VOTING TO PROTECT YOUR GUN RIGHTS - Nays: Barclay, Blankenbush, Borelli, Brindisi, Butler, Ceretto, Corwin, Crouch, DiPietro, Duprey, Finch, Friend, Gabryszak, Garbarino, Giglio, Goodell, Graf, Gunther, Hawley, Johns, Jordan, Katz, Kearns, Kolb, Lalor, Peter Lopez, Lupardo, Magee, McLaughlin, Montesano, Nojay, Oaks, Palmesano, Rabbitt, Raia, Reilich, Saladino, Schimminger, Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco, Tenney, Walter Nays: 43; (Democrat:8 Republican:35 Independent:0) Excused: Crespo, Fitzpatrick, Rivera -NEVER FORGET-

Here's the deal ..... The votes on that law is a matter of public record. Keep that voting record handy when you prepare for the vote. If one of your reps voted for the law, cross over the aisle and vote for his opponent, even if you consider him worse. And be sure to send an email explaining your vote to both candidates. Let them know that their vote on that law cost them the election. Don't be worrying about whether a candidate is Republican or Democrat. Just worry about how they voted on this one law. The Democrats didn't pass that bill by themselves, but those that did vote for it, regardless of party, should be voted against and told that you did so and why. Time for gun owners to vote as a unified block and for the politicians to know that. Let's put the fear back into these SOBs and let them know what a gun-control vote costs.

So far, the beef is with Cuomo and his merry gang of gun-banners. The gun companies as of yet have no new Federal gun legislation to be the cause of any Federal boycotts. Further, I personally would look at the act of with-holding armament to our troops as being treasonous. Our military personel have done nothing regarding gun control that warrants putting their lives in jeopardy.

No, I remember the panic back then. There were stories of all kinds of major management programs being trashed, and personel being cut below minimum levels, and all kinds of dire consequences if they didn't take those drastic changes in fee structure. The case was made that there was no way the DEC could function without that license fee increase. Well, if that was anywhere near the truth, there is no way that in this short period of time things could have healed themselves to the point where we could ever make the fee cuts and the license consolidations that hey are talking now. So, either they were lying through their teeth back then which is inexcuseable or they are willing to trash the department now just to acheive P.R. advantages also unexcuseable. So again .... Were they lying before or are they lying now? .... which is it? Are we going to be two seasons into the new license structure and suddenly be threatened with new (perhaps bogus) financial crisis? By the way, as far as sportsmen forgetting this SAFE gun owner harrassment law, I for one do not intend to let that happen. If you all think the response on this is being over-done right now, just wait until election time approaches.

I have never been a big fan of polls and surveys. But just on the outside chance that there may be some validity to this one, and because this subject has become important here on this forum, I thought that others might be interested in the results. I do not guarantee the accuracy of the poll or the article, but merely have passed along what I found in our local paper. To me, while I find the results disturbing and not very pleasant, I do believe they sound similar to my perception of attitudes. At any rate, it does inspire me to keep active and engaged in the battle for the hearts and minds of non hunters and those that don't own guns and those who have been duped by this power hungry maniac.

The article I read was from the Canandaigua Daily Messenger. The only internet link that I could find was to a similar article from The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle. http://www.democratandchronicle.com/viewart/20130308/NEWS01/303080025/cuomo-poll

I am still confused about all of this. Just a year or two ago, we hiked the prices way up because of the doom and gloom of the prospect of the whole state fish and game management program crashing down around our ears. The story was sodevastating that we had hunters and fishermen and trappers practically begging for the state to sock it to us with huge increases and exhorbitant fees. A couple years go by and no wwe can afford to consolidate licenses and chop the fees. So which way is it? Do we have "feast" or Famine"? And were they lying then or are they lying now?

Thanks for the warning. Just put a note out on the kitchen table to make sure my wife knows when she gets up.

I'm just guessing, but I think the answer to that lies in the population density of NYC. I did notice a couple of sentences in the AP article that said, "The breakdown showed a predictable split, with the strongest opposition upstate. The strongest support was in New York City and its suburbs".

The problem is that each of us are making up our own criteria for definitions, and I suppose we all have a right to do that. I don't happen to see enough principles of shooting disciplines to make the crossbow fit into an archery season. I feel it is not even close to being a bow or a rifle. It is a crossbow, a completely unique kind of a weapon. To me it has more physical features of a rifle in both the physical way it is shot, and rifle-like accessories and stabilization features available. And it requires none of the rigid hand-eye-muscle coordination and physical human muscle consistancy and form requirements of any vertical bow. I think that they got it right when they put them in the regular gun season. Gun season currently is a catch-all season open to all weapons. I think that is where they belong. And in the two or three years of repetition over and over and over of the same arguments, nothing has been brought out that has changed my mind on any of that. Some want to continue this argument off into the distant future, and to me it is simply trolling at this point. Bringing up the same old nonsense, over and over until you finally provoke a response. That is indeed a classical definition of "trolling". I think we are certainly all intelligent enough to realize that there will never be a meeting of the minds on this topic and yet there are those that apparently don't have enough things to argue about in life and wish to keep this divisive topic on a front burner. We have enough real problems confronting hunting without working so hard at perpetuating old arguments, ad infinitum.