Doc

Figure 11-0931 "No person shall discharge a firearm or longbow within 500 feet from a dwelling house, farm building or farm structure actually occupied or used, school building, school playground, or occupied factory or church."

When it comes to the defense of our children, money is all of a sudden an issue. And yet nobody has a problem with maintaining expensive registration systems. Extra-curricular activities .... no problem. Keeping kids alive, well gee that's awful expensive. We seem to have some strange priorities. One more person on the payroll. Is that a budget breaker? Never has been before.

The new Cabelas policy is probably real good news to Midway. I'm sure they will be happy to pick up the slack.

Actually, I thought his response was a very measured and intelligent way to reply to all the insane paranoia and the people running in circles and wringing their hands with absolutely nothing new, effective or innovative to say. And, the NRA plan is the first thing that has been said since the tragedy that showed a little common sense in terms of doing something meaningful and that really has a chance of being significant. And in fact it is something that I suggested way back early in the debate here. Instead of declaring war on a chunk of plastic and metal, finally something being said that addresses the real problem ....... the loonies that would do our children harm. It's about time. Now the problem is getting the antis to open their minds to real solutions instead of the insane and inneffective crutch of adding more failed gun laws. Ha-ha .... I'm not holding my breath.

I don't buy a lot of ammo anymore, and mostly just reload. But whenever I get a new gun I do buy a couple boxes of factory ammo to go with it. I have never seen anything that even came close to the crappy quality of what was in these two boxes. You can see from the pictures that these things wouldn't even fit in the gun. Man! that is just garbage quality. And then that case that I found in the bag of brass ..... what the heck is that all about? I found another that had some kind of brown marks on the head of another case that I still can't identify. It looks like rust, but brass doesn't rust ... lol. Who knows what kind of junk I will find as I go through the rest of them. I don't know, the whole thing just leaves me at a point where I probably won't buy anything from Winchester again. They've completely lost my confidence. Tomorrow, I will try to find some customer service contact and see if there is some way of being compensated for this mess.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, I have no idea whether I can improve or not, but I have to try. Remember, this is only the first group that I have ever shot out of this gun, and that was only 9 rounds. I have no idea what the thing is capable of. But I'm going to find out.

Ha-ha .... No, the antis will look at muzzleloaders as just one more "loophole" to close.

When I bought my gun, I bought 2 boxes of Winchester .270 Powerpoints. Now, we aren't talking any fancy high-priced ammo or anything, but take a look at the pictures I have enclosed. These are right out of the box. You've probably spotted the problems already, but notice the screwed up brass around the crimp groove. Also look at what happened to the points. What a mess. There are some more in the other box. I didn't pay a bunch for these, but enough. I seem to remember something like $28 a box. No excuse for that crap. These wouldn't even fit in the gun So, I started to build the 9 bullets that I did my first shots with. I opened up the Winchester brass, and guess what .... about three bullets in, I found a case that was so screwed up that I couldn't even get it in the shell holder. I haven't had a chance to look at many of them, but again ..... there is no excuse for that crap. So I checked out the Winchester web site, and guess what ..... There is no customer service contact info that I can find. So they are cranking out junk and apparently don't want to hear about it ..... lol. I will figure out a way to contact them, but I found it interesting that they are not trying to make it very easy for the customer. I always considered Winchester to be good ammo and good brass. I never had any problems before. But I can't excuse so many screwed up things. I know that the company has not exactly been thriving lately, but that's not an excuse. Anybody else notice a severe lack of quality from Winchester lately?

There is very little recoil. I could shoot this for a long time ..... which was one of the criteria. I tried my son's .270 before I bought this one, so I knew a bit about what to expect. His seemed a little less, and I think that might have been because it is a semi-auto. But I'm sure I could shoot mine all day without recoil being a concern. One indicator is that I can lay it on the bags and fire it without hanging on to the fore-end. I usually can't get away with that with the 12 guage although I have done it (that was scarey). The 12 guage really wants to take off .... ha-ha. When you don't grab the front end, it lays there just as steady as can be.

Yeah, I understand that my locks are simply a joke to those that are determined to get in. I think the locks are simply to fool myself into feeling better. But I will say that the reason that I have homeowner's insurance is exactly because of the realization that I can't keep a determined burglar from getting in. That is also the same reason why I keep a shotgun in the bedroom.

It's just something that I have to do ... lol. For me, I guess I won't be satisfied until they are all going into the same hole. It's a sickness. It's all about finding the absolute limits of the gun, the bullet, and myself. If I had enough money (And a place to do it), I would probably be one of these long distance shooter guys too. Man, that would be fun. But anyway there is always the fun of trying to achieve perfection.

Sorry, I just call it the way I see it, especially when it is so obvious.

I'm not sure what the psychology is of these gun-runs everytime the anti-gun crowd gets fired up. Perhaps it is a rush to make purchases before sales become illegal. From an investment standpoint, I would think that buying something that you fear will be unsaleable in the near future wouldn't be all that wise. But apparently there is something there that I don't understand .... lol. Also, if laws are written such that possession is illegal, I see people losing money (big-time) on such purchases. Perhaps that was what was behind Cuomo's comment about confiscation. Maybe he was trying to stem these mass purchases through some scare tactics. Apparently it didn't work .....ha-ha. One thing that I saw at Beikirch's the other day was 3 or 4 guns that were for sale but listed as "Pre-ban". That would lead one to believe that banned guns are legal to sell if they were made and sold prior to the ban. I didn't get a chance to ask about that because the place was totally mobbed and I felt lucky just getting my reloading order filled.

I don't know about TV programs, but when you referenced random shootings and innocent victims, I assumed that you were talking about drive-by shootings. I'm not sure those are a product of TV exaggerations. I think your discription of those guys as teen thugs is probably pretty accurate, and I'll bet they know exactly where to get a gun, and I'll bet what he will pick up will not have been obtained using all or any of the legal procedures no matter how stringent. Somehow, I can't picture those guys going through waiting periods and filling out all those volumes of paperwork, or being finger-printed, and registered, and on, and on. You don't really believe that your typical gang-banger really gives a damn about registration requirements and back-ground checks and all that stuff. There may be some category of killer that may be impacted by new laws, but I think your typical gang member is not one of them.

I thought the crazy ranting interruptions were a good thing. Maybe it helps to open some eyes as to the rabid maniacal nature of these people. Those wackos were really showing their stripes, and I think it turned out to be a very positive set of occurances for the NRA.

Well by golly, you do get things right once in a while ..... eh? What's that saying about blind squirrels and acorns....lol. Anyway, it was a hell of a good choice. Thanks for getting me looking in that direction.

That's what I thought I was hearing. Actually, my 100 yard range is about a half mile from the house, on top of the hill and in the middle of the woods. It absolutely looks like a deer hunting area, and in fact, it is .....lol.

I figured it out a long time ago that there really is only one "stopping place" for the anti-gun crowd. That line in the sand is complete and total eradication of weapons. They have made each and every advancement toward that goal through incrementalism. One baby step at a time. A death of a thousand cuts. I will say one thing for them, they are a patient bunch, and I do believe that eventually they will wear us down. I see signs of it now. I see people already saying things like, "Well gosh, nobody needs one of them things to hunt deer".... as though the 2nd amendment was written about hunting. Yes the gun defenses are being fragmented and fractured a little at a time. Modern sporting rifles are just simply the next target in a steady path toward the last target. A piece at a time folks. That's how it's done. And it doesn't matter what the goal is today, it's only the next step toward the final goal.

Do you realize that just about everybody, will have their annual maiden voyage into winter's ugliness at a time when holiday traffic and shopping is at it's heaviest. We usually get eased into this crap with a few minor snow accumulations before we get thrown into holiday traffic. I hope everyone gets acclamated to the bad road conditions in a hurry this year. Just be careful!

Now you really are getting completely ridiculous in your efforts to justify going out of your way to humiliate a young forum member. For some reason you feel justified in publicly belittling him for some spelling and grammar mistakes. I hope that makes you feel good, but don't be so transparent as to claim that it was all done for his benefit. I guess it never occurred to those that were having a free-for-all over his errors to send a PM and point out his mistakes. And of course it wouldn't have had the same humiliating impact would it? And now that someone has called you out on it, you start trying to put lipstick on it to make it all a bit more palatable. Don't bother, I'm not buying it. I'm sorry if I don't appreciate the idea of trying to drive our younger members away with those tactics. I suspect that all your efforts may very well have succeeded. Frankly I think it stinks!

Thanks for posting this. It is refreshing to hear a voice of reason for a change.

No Elmo .... you don't want to get caught up in those "if it saves just one life it's worth it...." kind of justifications. An awful lot of bad law and lost freedoms comes out of the use of that phrase. If we are going to get into harrassment style laws, let's make sure that the results are significant and the over-all benefits obvious. I've got to say that when you get into that "drive-by" action, you are dealing with very street-wise lowlifes that would not abide by any law just out of general principles .... lol. Seriously those kinds of guys are pretty much immune from gun laws. Gun laws in those cases are not preventative, but may offer some slap-on-the-wrist additional charges after the homicide.

Ok, I finally got out and tried my new Christmas present/ birthday present. Here are the quick results of the .270 Ruger American. These are the first 9 shots out of it ....100 yards. 150 gr Hornady SST Boat tail. 50.4 gr of Hodgdens H4350. I think with a little more work I can tighten them down a bit more. Not too bad considering I had snow blowing in my face and could hardly feel my fingers from the cold .... lol. I'm pretty happy with it.

If they make them illegal to possess, they don't have to come to your door to collect them. And as far as what they might do, your guess is as good as mine. Nothing is really off the table. This latest deal at Newtown has created a great opportunity for the gun confiscators. They are giddy over the possibilities and are willing and eager to take maximum advantage. Hopefully the idea of checks and balances will be at work on this issue, but in this instant atmosphere of panic and hype and emotionality, nothing would surprise me.