Doc

That is not a joke. That is a mandate for NYS survival!

By the way, I remember that the drives were a lot of fun, but the challenge boiled down to simple target practice. The only ones who engaged in any challenge were the one's wo set up the drives. They had to know where the deer were likely to be and where their escape routes were and how to set up the standers so that they would be likely to get the shots without shooting each other. But we had fun doing it all.

I have participated in deer drives years ago, but have not been involved in drive in several decades. There were some episodes that kind of stretch the safety of the hunt. Also, since then, I started to feel that drives violated my limits regarding forcing deer to react contrary to their natural habits and inclinations. Of course in 90% of the gun hunting situations, deer sighting are a result of some other hunter pushing deer to my stand. That is something that can't be avoided. That is why I get so much more satisfaction out of my archery season than my gun season. With the bow it is more me against the deer without outside help or interference. Of course my archery experience started way back when seeing or even knowing another bowhunter was a rare event (even on state land. But that is a great question.

I have always wondered just how smart bucks are. Are they hard to get because they are so smart, or are they simply a lot rarer because they are the prime target of hunters and there simply are fewer. I have to admit that I have seen some rather big bucks do some absolutely dumb things. Usually that is related to the rut when they are controlled by their sexual needs. Yes, I have seen some things over the decades that show that some bigger bucks do that appear to be intelligent, but I have seen old does do smart things too. So the question is, just because a deer has made it through several seasons and has a lot of bone on its head, does that mean that these big old goats are super smart? From an elevated spot, I have watched a big buck lay on it's belly with it's head pressed against the ground in a swamp when a hunter walked within a few feet of him. That shows some real smarts. He didn't jump up and risk the flying lead. But I also saw a doe holding tight in a tangle of grape vines next to our driveway just a few feet away from me waiting for me to keep on walking. I'm sure that she had done that many times in her lifetime rather than jumping up and running and risking getting shot at. So she was pretty smart too. probably as smart as that buck in the swamp. What have you all seen that impressed you with the intelligence of bucks or does.

Like I said, my comments are not meant as a criticism of anybody's methods. They are just personal limits that I have put on my own hunting. I just hit 81 a few days back, so I understand what you are saying. But I have not revised those limits, although maybe I should have......lol.

Great video! I did notice that most of the deer appeared to be well aware of the camera. And a lot of them didn't seem all that comfortable about the camera presence.

Tradition! That is the word. Add to that the words American heritage. That is what sparked my interest in hunting, fishing, camping, trapping and all the outdoor activities that have dominated my my life. I remember when I was a little kid there were books that I read about the mountain men and pioneers that lived by plying all of these skills that have found their way deep into my life as the outdoor activities that I became deeply involved in. I was actually the one that got my father involved in hunting, especially bow hunting. We began to build our own family traditions and heritage. I was the one who learned trapping as a youngster. Dad was the fisherman, and I got involved in that too. Camping was another thing that I wove into my life, with a lot of emphasis on being primitive. All these things had some relationship to those books that I read. Interesting how those books wound up dominating my whole 81 years of life.

I like to keep my hunting as natural as possible. What I mean by that is that I do not get involved in things that tend to program or condition deer to change their natural habits and movements in order to assist my ability to hunt them. I am referring to baiting, feeding, and constructing food plots. Yes I admit that in farm country deer movements are influenced by farmers, but that is a natural influence that I have not participated in creating. To me crop land is no different than a nice acorn bearing oak tree or a wild apple tree. It all is food sources that I had no part in placing there. Part of hunting is scouting and finding the existing food sources that the deer are using, but not creating them. I am not into conditioning deer to train them to come to me. They have natural acts of feeding and bedding that I feel I should be able to observe and use as part of my hunting skills. If I can't do that and have to resort to influencing their movements then I feel that I am doing things that really have no business being a part of my hunting methods. I am into hunting deer, not training deer. I know I am in the minority on these subjects, but they are just the limits that I personally put on my hunting to kind of even up the score a bit. This is not a criticism of those that have other opinions. It is just personal limits that I choose to put on my hunting.

A couple of years ago, I had the property logged. For years I was told that thinning the woods would open up the overstory and result in better browsing conditions and basically improve the habitat for the deer herds and other birds and animals. I still believe that, in the long term. BUT The primary target of loggers is the oaks..... All the acorn bearing trees. What I found was that the deer and turkeys now spend less time on my property and instead primarily do their feeding on the land next door. To the point where the critters seem to have abandoned my property almost entirely during hunting season. I know that eventually when the browse begins to get established with the increased light reaching the ground, the deer will return and flourish. But history has shown me that when fall comes around, the browse becomes less of an attractant and the acorns become the food target for these critters. Yeah.....Fall.....Hunting season. The mature oak trees are now gone and of course so are the acorns and the deer and the turkeys. They are lured off to the unlogged areas next door. It is quite significant. I am wondering if any of you have seen the same thing happen on logged property that you hunt. Just curious.

Do you all have certain personal limits where you say, "This is no longer hunting". I am referring to hunting or technological assists that feel like they go beyond "fair chase". So many things come into my mind. Where do you draw lines when deer hunting?

We call those deer "hillside veal". You cannot beat the flavor and the texture. It is a true delicacy. And yes, there is no better liver than from hillside veal.

Ha-ha-ha.......Yes, a deer at any cost. This is the kind of mentality that seems to dominate today's hunting. No limits. Anything goes. Fair chase be damned. I blame the TV "hero" programs for this attitude of "All is fair in deer hunting". We do find ourselves letting technology do more of the hunting for us, don't we? And then we can brag about what mighty hunters we have become. It's been an interesting evolution, this thing called hunting. I see no end to it. It is starting to remind me of that deal where somebody had a rifle and camera combo set up so you could do your hunting of live animals on your computer. Yeah, we got rid of that notion, but probably only temporarily.

This thread kind of makes one wonder how it is that any deer ever survived before trail cams, food plots, and supplemental winter feeding and careful counting and record keeping and micro management. Deer hunting is now mandated to be an agricultural project. It is not hunting anymore, it is animal husbandry. It is amazing how even back when we had a lot of very eager and active hunters, almost behind every tree, the deer herd still survived without all the assistance from our "expert" private game managers. Thank heavens we have all these "expert" people today that try to shame all hunters into all these deer management schemes. How would the herd ever survive without these people who try to tell others what deer they should shoot and which not to shoot? Of course all of this "expert" arguing and cajoling is probably a big part of the reason that hunting is slowly fading from existence as the common activity it used to be. We need all these self-proclaimed experts.......Don't we?

Thanks guys for the birthday wishes. This old world just can't seem to get rid of me.....lol. 81 years old! Who the heck ever thought I would last this long and still be upright. I know Fast Eddie will always have me beat. He's the one that shows me that more years are possible. Is there anyone here that is older than him?

So, somebody must be watch-dogging this site to keep it running and get it back up when it goes down.

Thanks Greg.

Have fun with all the Christmas family gatherings. And remember there is no open season in NYS for reindeer

You have to wonder if hunting, fishing, and trapping would become more like a job when you have to rely on it for eating. Maybe it becomes more of a job than a hobby. I have to say that the landscape and scenery would be pretty easy to enjoy. The feelings of self-reliance would have to provide a certain amount of satisfaction. But a steady diet of fish and caribou sure seems to leave a lot of other vitamins and minerals lacking. Most of them have no garden, so they either buy vegetables from somewhere or have a supply of wild greens and such to balance their diet. Also, I am surprised at the nice shiny new snowmobiles and ATVs that most of them seem to have at their disposal. Looking at the prices they are getting for those things you have to wonder where they are getting the money to afford them.

I wonder if there are farm raised bucks that have surpassed that score?

I've been watching these TV shows on the people that live in the north country. Shows like " Mountain Men" and "Life Below Zero" where they put our passions, hunting and fishing and trapping, to the test of survival on a daily basis. Did you ever imagine what such a lifestyle would be like? It has it's appeal, but there are some nasty realities to living that way too.

Now it is time to do for our own state what we did for the country. Hochul's busted in the polls. Zeldin almost turned things over last senatorial election. Never too early to start getting the right people registered and primed to vote the right way.

And then there are those that I see running along the highway or pedaling their ass on the highway on bikes so that they can "live forever". I have to wonder how good it is for your longevity to be sucking in those exhaust fumes of each passing car, truck, or bus deep into your lungs.

Is there anyone here that is out in this frigid late season that is actually using a vertical bow?

Here's the facts: Lee Zeldin came within 6 percentage points of taking the governorship in the last election. Meanwhile, the latest Sienna poll shows that 57 percent of the voters prefer someone else other than Hochul for the upcoming election in 2026. Only 33% would vote for her again. And she does intend to run again in 2026. If the polls are even close, the time is coming to get things right here in NYS. Do you know gun owners who are not registered? Do you know gun owners who do not vote? A little activism doesn't hurt. It may be a bit uncomfortable, but we have got to stop treating politics like a dirty word and stop avoiding all political discussions. This thread shows how intertwined our hunting and shooting are with politics. Yes, politics is a hunting related discussion. We have to stop whining amongst ourselves and start pushing people to use the voting power we already have accessible to us. There is a pretty good article that lays out all the numbers for you. Take a scan of what the numbers are saying instead of just throwing in the towel and living with whatever the government decides to do with our guns and ammo. We have a chance to make a difference. Take a look: https://nypost.com/2024/12/10/us-news/majority-of-new-yorkers-want-someone-other-than-kathy-hochul-for-governor-in-2026-poll/

They had better hurry up. I am heading for 81 years old. They probably don't have that much time to start knocking on my door.......lol.