Doc

6 deer in the front yard this afternoon (adult does and a couple fawns). They came up the driveway and headed for the flower garden ..... lol. We've had smaller groups (2 or 3 deer at a time) doing that on a daily basis for about a week. Following quite a long ways behind was another bigger deer, but as I look out the livingroom window toward the driveway, I am looking down on driveway through the trees because the house is higher than the driveway, so I never got a good look at it, but all the deer in the yard stopped eating and were staring down at him. Just before he got to a point where I might have had a chance to tell whether it was a buck or not, he stepped off the driveway and into the thicket. My wife had to head out, so she spooked the whole bunch of them when she started up the car and I never got another look at him. I might have to build a stand out in the yard this year ...... lol. What I was wondering was whether the bucks might be getting into that "following" phase where they seem to know that soon they will be expected to do something, but really don't know what that is just yet. Over the years, about this time of year, I have noticed that kind of behavior on several different occasions. The bucks seem to be just off and on following the small female herds at a distance, but not acting real pushy about it yet. It's kind of like they are just keeping tabs on the where-abouts of the ladies for future reference. Doc

Then who in the heck is it that's shooting all these 1.5 bucks that everyone is worrying about? It seems to me that there is likely to be no need for AR, if so many are already sold on the idea of letting them walk. I have not yet figured out these claims about how wildly popular AR is, and yet the harvest percentages of 1.5 yr old deer never seems to change. You can't have it both ways. Which is it? is it a popular concept or not? Doc I guess some as to be attributed to "saying and doing are two different things". One might be for not shooting a 1.5, yet takes a 1.5 thinking, Ah, if I don't shoot this, I might not get another chance. Now that its enforced, its a different story, again in my area. Now its ah I see this nice 6, 7 or 8, maybe I should hold off knowing that AR has produced options. If I had to guess (and it is only a guess), I might think that AR is one of those things that many think is a good idea as long as it remains as a theoretical question (survey or casual conversation). However, when the reality of having to make an actual choice, ideals change real fast and down goes the yearling. So which shows the real attitude, the words or the actions? Doc

I have an old Army pancho that I keep rolled up in my pack. It is strictly for a case where the sky opens up with a downpour, and I need some protection to get home. I can't shoot with the thing on, but when it's raining to that extent, shooting is absolutely not a requirement that I'm worrying about ..... lol. Doc

You know, that thought crossed my mind as I stood with my face a few inches from his. They don't impress you with huge size like a moose or something, but the size is adequate and the speed is something you simply could not defend against. And that head-gear is just designed for penetration. I do believe that they could be very dangerous animals, especially the domesticated ones that have lost their natural fear of humans. Doc

I wouldn't be surprised if maybe nobody is left for that assignment. I think somebody dropped the ball in terms of organization and soliciting participants. And yes, when Ron Shroeder was running it, the whole event was moving in a "growing" direction. I don't know who is in charge of it these days, and I seriously wonder if anybody is. Doc

Sorry ...... I didn't see this thread when I started an almost identical comment on the "General Chit-Chat" forum. I was very disappointed to say the least. It did almost look like a protest kind of boycott thing. It was that significant a change. As I said in the other thread, I only skipped one year of attendance, so it looks like a rather sudden reaction to something. Also, it was not just vendors that were missing. I noticed right off that the buck skinners group weren't there. Doc

The point still stands.

Tough butt hairs? ...... LMAO!!! I've never heard that one before. Hope you don't mind if I borrow that phrase ;D Doc

I just got home from the festivities over the region 8 DEC headquarters. We skipped last year because it was getting a bit repetitive, but dropped in today to see what kinds of things that may have been added over the past two years. Huge disappointment! They have downsized the event considerably. I would guess that it was about 2/3 of what it was last time I attended. It was not going unnoticed either as I heard quite a few people grumbling about the huge empty areas that used to be filled with exhibitors. I'm not sure whether somebody at the DEC has dropped the ball in terms of organization and soliciting of participants, but something is definitely going in the wrong direction with that event. That's the bad news. However, there was one display that really got my attention. There were some people there with a couple of live bucks that were looking a bit like the ones shown in that video that we had floating around on one of the threads here. These bruisers were huge! Very domestic ...... but huge! I believe the owners were a scent production outfit. I tried to remember the web address and name of the outfit, but you know how it is with geezers and their memory. The other good news is that it looked to me like the attendance was not suffering any. At least to me it looked like the usual large crowd, especially considering the threatening skies. So anyone of all those people who had never seen one of the shows would not realize that it had been downsized, and still would be very impressed by the whole affair. And don't get me wrong, it still is one very great outdoor show by any measure, but I was just a bit disappointed that the size has actually taken a major step backward. Doc

Then who in the heck is it that's shooting all these 1.5 bucks that everyone is worrying about? It seems to me that there is likely to be no need for AR, if so many are already sold on the idea of letting them walk. I have not yet figured out these claims about how wildly popular AR is, and yet the harvest percentages of 1.5 yr old deer never seems to change. You can't have it both ways. Which is it? is it a popular concept or not? Doc

Years ago, I had a triple trunked pine tree that did a great job of snapping nails right between the board and the trunk so that there was nothing visible that would tell you that the nails were broke. Except of course eventually it would get bad enough to start to move. So before entering the stand, be sure to give it a good test, especially on the first time of the year, and be sure to be harnessed. A lot of times, just some of the nails are broke, and the stand feels somewhat secure. What I found from watching these 3 trunks in a high wind is that they act independantly and do not always move in the same direction. The amount of force that a tree can develop in a wind is tremendous. And the cyclic fatigue is murder on the little cross section of a nail. Yes the pine tree that I chose was worse because it has needles on it year around and gets the "sail" effect all year around even worse than deciduous trees. I like the strap idea a a secondary factor of safety. I did start looking at some design alternatives that would allow the main horizontal support members to slide instead of being fastened rigidly via nails. In other words, the support beam would be fastened securely to one trunk, but at the other end it would be captured in a sliding shackle so that the two trunks were never pulling the attachment apart or trying to push it together. I'm probably not being too clear without a diagram. Any way, My fear of heights took over, and experimentation along those lines ceased. I do think that something like a 5/8" lag-bolt would be much better than nails. I had a stand that I built in a willow that I used lag-bolts on, and the tree will be dead and on the ground before those things ever come apart That was just about the time I was getting a bit paranoid of heights. So I spared no expense or effort to feel absolutely secure. I called it my "condo". It has a 4' x 5' platform with railings all around and a section of heavy duty aluminum extension ladder to get into it. Every piece of wood is pressure treated 2 x 8's. I think it is going on its 11th year and is still a piece of the tree it's mounted on and I have no doubt it will last long after me. The lag bolts do not break! Also, they have not hurt the tree at all. Doc

The best thing to do when requesting an interpretation from the DEC or a judge is to ask for the interpretation in written form. E-mail is good for that because the whole conversation is written down. In the case of some bad info from authorities, it is always good to have some indication that you acted in good faith with the best information available at the time. That way there are no sudden lapses of memory from whoever gave the advice, and perhaps a judge might have a bit of leniency or forgive the violation entirely. Phone conversations are notorious for back-tracking when it looks like somebody is going to have egg on their face. Doc

The only reason it caught my attention was the fact that for my lifetime license, I was only able to get the Sportsman and not the Super-Sportsman license that I have been buying ever since they came out. So now I still have to buy my Archery license every year. Doc

There ya go. It's the Chlorophyll for sure. ;D

Well see, that's what has the capability of automatically turning you into a game violator.

In my area, red oaks are bearing super-heavy. White oaks ....... I haven't found one with acorns yet. Doc

It's not the situation in the Northern Zone that bothers me about the proposal set up an iron clad rule to max out the doe take to one per hunter. I'm guessing that the weather in most of the Northern Zone is probably a self-regulating factor when it comes to deer over population. However, I have seen herd populations where such a change would simply hamstring the DEC to the point where they couldn't control the population adequately in many areas of the southern zone. What makes me say that is that I remember the size of the herd back in the late 80's when I personally witnessed the huge deer yards at the southern end of Honeoye Lake. I saw the stripped woods all up and down the east lake road where habitat was destroyed for several years, and in fact has not fully recovered even today. I remember having to almost push deer out of the road because they hardly had enough energy to move by themselves. I remember seeing hundreds of snow covered mounds out in the fields that each represented a starved deer. Also there was images of dead deer hanging on the fences that simply didn't have the strength to clear them with their back legs because of starvation. That was about the time that the DEC started to issue multiple tags. A little late, but at least they had the necessary tool of the DMP system. Multiple DMPs are a necessary tool if we are going to insist that the DEC do it's job. It would be a real shame to take away that one and only measure that they need to use to control the population. I think the DMP system is one of the best things that the DEC ever came up with (and it's probably not something that originated in NYS). We may want to push for the better use of the system but certainly not ditch it entirely. The phrase "throwing out the baby with the bath water" comes to mind . As far as the one buck system, I wouldn't be all that upset about implementing that. I don't think it would have any significant impact, but without knowing how many people really do harvest more than one buck, I can't really say one way of the other. Doc

Lol ....... who can really tell what's going through the minds of those silly goats? I don't think they really know what the heck they are doing themselves ;D . Human urine ...... deer urine ...... I don't suppose it really matters to them. Doc

Or the interpretation of the judge.

I think it is the Super Sportsman that you are thinking of. The Sportsman licence does not get you archery and muzzleloading priviledges. I believe that is how it works. Doc the nit-picker

There is only one problem that I have with the system of game laws and other laws as well. I had to buy a 2 volume copy of environmental conservation law in order to find all the laws that govern our outdoor hunting, fishing, and trapping as well as the other outdoor activities regulated by the DEC. Each of those volumes is 1-5/8" thick. That is the 1984 - 1985 edition, and I'll guarantee that each volume is a lot thicker today, and perhaps they have even added another volume by now. It might be a bit rude, but I'm afraid I would have to call BS on anyone who claimed to know all that info (and that includes those who are responsible for administering and enforcing conservation law). Piled on top of all that is the vagueness of interpretation of most of what is in there. So vague in fact that a lot of the stuff contained in those law books will get you a whole variety of different interpretations depending on what judge or ECO you are speaking with. So the problems I have with violations is when they get so numerous and so undefined that you are guaranteed to be unknowingly breaking some law almost everytime you go afield. Yes, legally speaking, ignorance of the law is no excuse, which is another way of saying, "what you don't know can hurt you". Doc

This thread has the potential for spinning off a whole bunch of side topics such as the bait controversy above. All these things that members may consider examples of ethical decisions and quandries. However, I don't believe that the DEC opposes baiting or feeding based on ethical considerations, or at least I have never heard them explain the feeding and baiting laws based on ethics. Whether you agree with those particular laws or not, the only DEC problems with the practice that I have ever heard relates to herd health. When it comes to the differences between food plots and bait, I would guess that they would argue that there is a world of difference between the two as regards the concentration of feeding and depositing body wastes and fluids by the deer. Even a small food plot does not concentrate deer feeding activity any more than any normal agricultural activity, where baiting and feeding force deer to stand at exactly the same isolated spot (within a few feet or even much less), constantly feeding in exactly the same spot where other deer have deposited urine, feces, and saliva. Now, when I think of baiting or feeding, I am picturing a pile of food or a small tight broadcast area either of which practically or actually force deer into the same footprints. That is nothing like food plot feeding or ag crop feeding. It may sound like a fine distinction, but in terms of actual disease transmission, it is a big difference. I realize that someone is going to pipe up and note the time that they watched a couple of deer grazing nose to nose. I've seen that happen too, and I know it does happen. However that occasional nose to nose accidental contact is still a whole lot different from the bait or feed pile that guarantees that that will happen every time and with an entire local herd involved. No, you cannot change the occasional social behavior of deer to eliminate all such contact, but there is nothing good that can come from purposely making that happen by design. So, I really don't think that this issue falls under the "I hate ethics" rant that Nugent was having, because it's not a regulation based on ethics at all. Doc

I don't think anybody believes that insurance companies are in jeopardy of going out of business, but if they do not take part in lobbying for things that will cut their costs, they would be the first industry that I have ever heard of that didn't. My guess is that they are always interested in having outgoing funds staying in their own pockets. As a matter of fact, the DEC on their own web-site talk about "motorists interests" as being one of the stakeholders that's eligible for inclusion in the CTF on establishing deer density goals for the DEC. I don't know, but I don't think they are talking about the AAA or Slick Charlie's used car lot. Doc

Well, like I suggested, maybe something has been badly taken out of context, or maybe he just has a different definition of "ethics" than I do, but I view ethics as a personal code of right and wrong. I would hope that no one is trying to convince others that you should not have that in your make-up whether it relates to hunting or anything else they might get involved with. I don't get it. I'm hoping that that particular rant was merely an introduction to a larger point that he was about to make. Doc

I quit 2/18/08. I used Chantix. What I'll never know was whether it was the Chantix or just a sudden resolve to quit. The fact that my wheezing at night almost kept me awake might have help a bit too....lol. The ugly crud that I was coughing up was another great incentive. I do believe that I quit just in time to save some serious health problems. However aside from the ridiculous cost of cigarettes today, I think the one thing for someone to think about before starting smoking is the fact that even today, that drug had such a hold on me that I still get some fairly strong urges to have a cigarette. Although it is a whole lot easier to get by those cravings, it is still amazing that after all these years it is something that I still have to continue to fight with. It is unbelieveable, but it can be one of the most ugly addictions to try to lose. The solution ........... don't start in the first place! That's not preaching because I remember how much I hated people constantly nagging me about my smoking. I'm simply relating my experiences with nicotine, and anyone can take it as just another story of an ex-smoker to be evaluated whatever way you want to. Doc