Doc

We used to have a blue heron rookery on top of the hill where there were several nests in the tree-tops. Once I discovered it, I tried to stay away from it so as not to disturb things there. However, I was working my way around the nesting site heading to the back of my property when I noticed a whole lot of noise coming from the area. Curious, I slowly headed toward there. As I got closer, I could see several herons squawking like crazy and flying around the nests. A little closer and I could make out the shape of a big cat's head sticking out of the top of one of the nests. Yup, sure enough it was a bobcat. He was either after the eggs or some newly hatched herons. I was just out hiking/scouting at the time, so I didn't have any weapons with me. This rookery was too far from home to go back and get anything (up and over the top of our "killer hill") so there was no way I could break up the nest theft. That was the last year that they had their nests there. That was a whole lot of years ago and that's the only one that I have ever seen. However, it wasn't too long ago that the local paper had a picture of one that was hit in the road over toward Bloomfield. I believe it was up on route #64 almost up to Ionia. and even more recently, the paper reported that there was one seen by several people in Canandaigua over by a condo complex next to the lake. Yes, I do believe there are more around than people realize. They're just pretty darn sneaky. Doc

Here's an article that you should read next time before going out in the dark ..... lol. http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/29/canada.singer.killed/index.html If that don't do it, watch the movie, Cujo again. Now start thinking about an encounter with a bear with rabies. Even better, let's say it's bow season and that is the only weapon that you have ..... Ha-ha. Now let all these things work with your imagination. Next thing you know, you will shut off the alarm and roll over and go back to sleep. It's easier said than done, but you have to get control of that imagination and focus on the fact that there is nothing there in the dark that isn't there in the daylight. Doc

There are so many aspects to hunting that it is a shame to see people get locked into just one of them. There are an awful lot of super experiences that occur during a deer hunt that don't even have a deer involved with them. I really hate to see the whole thing boiled down to a numbers game. Yes, I do get all excited when I see some monster old buck, but I don't have to see some monster old buck to be enthusiastic or to be able to call my day of hunting a success. Maybe I just don't take it all as serious as a lot of people do, but more likely over the years I have simply tailored my satisfactions and expectations to a more realistic level and have developed an enthusiasm of simply watching and experiencing nature along the way. So how does all this relate to the topic of AR? ......I don't know..... lol. Doc

Whenever I can, I have two stands located at every hunting site. They are arranged for different wind directions and may or may not be located right near each other. I kind of made that a standard practice quite a few years ago after having it proved to me that meteorologists are the only people who get paid for being wrong. When it comes to wind direction, they are wrong more often than not. It's not always their fault. When you hunt hill & valley country, you get used to wind doing the opposite of what the prevailing area winds are. Between the thermals and just the way the hills and valleys duct the wind around, the weatherman's opinion doesn't really mean a lot. For example, in our valley like most north-south valleys, you get three wind directions .... north south and circling. When ever you get a west wind (most of the time) or one of those more rare east winds, it all depends on whether there is any north or south component to it as to whether it will be converted into a north or south wind. So, I have to be prepared for unexpected wind directions. Two stands usually does the job. Doc

Probably an honest answer would be, "I really don't know what the average age is of all the deer in our area". But based strictly on only those deer that I see (and only those that stand still long enough to make a judgement), I would have to say that the average is probably 1.5 years old. That stands to reason with a brand new crop of them every year, you probably should expect to see younger deer as an average. Doc

One of the great things about hunting the same areas year after year is that you learn from experience where some of the likely bedding areas are. In our area, there is no "one condition fits all" scenario. I know that deer do bed down in the heavy wild-rose choked thickets and other nearly impenetrable brush areas. But I also have some favorite bedding areas on top the hill that are fairly open mature wooded areas where deer will simply hunker down on some knoll or next to a huge log. These places are usually found simply by spending time in the woods and taking note of where you most often jump deer. It would be nice if we could say that that place over there is thick so every deer in the area must be there when they are not feeding, but it just isn't true. It takes a bit of time and lot of observation to try to determine where the deer might be at any particular time of day and then you can only talk in terms of probability. I have seen deer bed in some real strange places. Doc

I do think we worry entirely too much about what is or isn't a trophy, but people are free to set their measures of success in hunting anyway they want I suppose. If a whole bunch of antler is your way of figuring out what kind of animal is worthy of hunting, that is certainly ok. I just never saw hunting as something where participants need to keep score. For me the whole thing does not boil down to numbers whether those numbers be some kind of rack score or the deer's age. I can't think of another animal hunted in NYS where we spend so much time worrying about how we stack up against the next hunter. But if we think this is something we must do, then I suppose there's no harm in it as long as we don't start trying to force our measures of success on others. Doc

No, this isn't something you really should be worried about .......... but just try to get those thoughts out of your head ..... lol. Doc

Geeze....I hope you didn't mean run "bare" with hounds. Most of the year it is a bit cold for that.

I tell ya, if deer had the slightest clue what their natural weapons can do, and even the slightest inclination to use them, deer hunting would take on a whole different aspect. For one thing, I don't think I would be comfortable going into the woods armed with just my bow ...... lol. By the way ....... what in the heck was that stupid cat thinking? Doc

Who sells those things?

Is there any kind of controlled hunting allowed in that park? Doc

It is real strange that in 1971 it was made "unlawful for any department or division of this state, or any political subdivision thereof to pay bounties on the taking of wildlife", (11-0531) and yet it is ok for private organizations to do essentially the same thing with big-buck contests and now coyote contests. The logic and philosophies behind some of these laws aren't really very consistant are they? I suppose it doesn't matter anyway, since the state really couldn't afford to pay bounties anyway. But I think hunters would get a whole lot more serious about coyote hunting if the state were giving out bounties. Bearing in mind that we hunters are the only real predators of coyotes, it sure would be a good thing if there was more of an incentive to shoot those critters. Doc

What an opportunity for those in that area who are having difficulties finding open bowhunting hunting grounds. Is anyone here going for this? Doc

Our County (Ontario) has submitted a bill to the NYS legislature relative to allowing the use of rifles in the lower part of Ontario county. Actually it has gone to Albany s few months ago. I know the process is slow because we have unsuccessfully tried it a couple of times already. My question is: has anyone heard how this bill is progressing. Another question is: does anyone know of a web-site that assists in tracking these bills. I'm sure there is one, but I havent found it yet. Doc

I am just hoping that the DEC is using these experimental AR areas as proper laboratories, and are keeping adequate records to establish just what is working and what is not working. It's nice to have anecdotal observations, but nothing will ever replace actual gathered hard data. I am not just talking about data relative to buck numbers and age structure, but also data relative to how hunter participation has reacted. I make no predictions as to what such data might show, but I sure hope that the data is being collected and analysed. There's a lot more involved here than just arbitrarily slapping on some regulations as I have noted in past replies. Doc

I have never been in that shop and ever found anything that I was after. They stock the store in a real goofy fashion, and really look like a half -hearted operation. Kind of like they really would rather not be in business. I finally got totally disgusted with them a few years back and haven't stopped there since. No point ...... they never had anything I needed anyway. I assume that they haven't improved any, and from the sounds of your story, apparently they haven't. Doc

I expect that an overwhelming majority hunt mainly from treestands, but I just thought it would be intersting to see how the percentages break down among our members. Actually, I just wanted to try out the "poll" feature.....lol. Doc

Any time in September. Doc

It is occurring to farmers and other landowners that their land really is a valuable resource that has potential for making money. Even here in NYS, leasing is becoming a pretty good chunk of money for whoever owns the land. I have even seen some large tracts of land bought with the idea of first logging it and grabbing off the lumber money and then leasing it for some pretty big bucks to deer hunters. It is beginning to be looked at more as pure investment than simply as a supplemental source of extra spending cash. We can look at this as greed, but in reality, it is simply market forces at work. We have watched it happen in other states, and now it is happeneing here at home. So what's really happening? ..... A few hunters with deep pockets can tie up hundreds of acres, which basically means that you have fewer people hunting that land than ever before. As that kind of thing spreads, those that aren't leasing are having a much harder time finding hunting land, and are over-crowding the ever-diminishing open lands. That basically creates a bigger demand and allows landowners to ratchet up the lease prices. Also, owners of those lands that were formerly "open hunting" are becoming aware of the money that they are losing and begin demanding payment for access. Whose fault is it? I think it's our own (the hunters) fault. We hunters pay the big bucks as we try to lock up hunting land for ourselves. Then we advertise the fact through our TV hunting shows. Landowners would be absolute fools if they didn't see all this stuff going on and try to cash in on it. Let's face it, they paid obscene prices for the land and the state and local governments are stealing obscene amounts of tax money from them simply because they bought the land. No wonder they are looking for ways to recoup some or all of that outflow of cash. And by the way, I believe that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg as more and more landowners are finding out exactly how much hunters are willing to pay for hunting access. You ain't seen nuttin' yet! Doc

Here's something I have always wondered about. We do not have AR, but our deer population has been coming up considerably for the last few years. As expected, with the over-all herd up, the buck numbers are also correspondingly up. Also as you might expect, with the buck numbers rising, a certain percentage of them are growing to an older age. Consequently, we are seeing some better racks than we did a few years back when the over-all deer population had been hacked down by excessive permit numbers. I'm thinking that if AR had been implemented a few years back, I would be explaining all this with comments about how AR is working. However, the fact is that it is simply normal cyclical factors of habitat, weather, and harvest that is working its normal expected magic. It's the sort of thing that I have seen cycling back and forth over the decades. There are so many things that impact deer herds. I'm not saying that is what is going on in the areas where AR has been implemented, but I'm just saying that everything is not always what it appears when you are going simply by general observations over a couple of years. Doc

For decades, we used to butcher our own deer. I never really cared for the job, but we did it anyway and did a pretty good job of it. Well, now I'm a bit older and a bit more lazy. So now I let someone else do it. My deer processor does a very professional job and also has what is needed for making up some of the processed meat products like sausage and some cold-cuts, etc. Yeah, it all costs more money than I wish it would, but there is something real nice about dropping off a deer and picking up bags of meat a couple days later. Doc

I think that is the way I feel about the whole subject. AR is just not a real heavy-hitter on my list of priorities. I really don't think that is even close to being one of the biggest deer management problems that we have in NYS. Maybe when we get some of the basic deer management techniques working well, I might get a little more concerned about such secondary issues. Until then, it simply is not worth the hassle that it is causing. Doc

I'm thinking that mobs of hunters in the bowhunting woods (similar to gun-hunter numbers) would cause all kinds of disruptions and interferences in your hunt. Pre-season scouting would be destroyed by pattern-shifting hunter movement. Success would be more of a result of deer fleeing other hunters rather than well executed planning, scouting, and counting on habitual patterns of an undisturbed herd. Of course for those that own, post and control hunter densities on their own land, there would be no effect. Obviously, they would just offer less permissions and control the hunter numbers in that way. But I am thinking of those of us who are relegated to public land or wide open private lands where such a situation would be a much bigger problem than it already is since there is no way of controlling hunter numbers. There was a lot of comments in the thread about how other hunters can irritate you, that point specifically to the kinds of interferences that you would see increasing to negatively change the whole quality of the hunt. Hunters tramping around your stand at inconvenient times, hunters setting up stands next to you, etc. That is why I heartily agree with the comment by Fasteddie about how one of the great features of bowhunting is that there are less folks in the woods. To me that is a big factor that makes bowhunting so much more satisfying a style of hunting. It's the one big feature that allows you to use strategy instead of just counting on the luck. Doc

I wonder what bowhunting would be like if it took off and became almost as popular as gun season with a similar hunter density. It sure would be an entirely different kind of activity wouldn't it? It probably would lose a lot of appeal for me. So, I fully agree with your comment about liking the fact that there are "Less folks in the woods during archery season". That is a major part of the quality of the bowhunt. Doc