nyantler

Pat Paulsen... you young guys won't get this.

Options for what??? We don't even know the reason why the DEC is doing what it's doing... they haven't discussed it, explained it, or even given a hint why a doe only season is necessary during those particular parts of the deer season... if and when they do I'm sure there will be many hunters with alternative options.

Pins??.. What are they?

Yes... It would be nice if the DEC would tell hunters how the plan has been designed to be successful.

http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/what-do-deer-eat.html

The science is much different than anecdotal observation... what you see hunting could merely be the kind of luck you have or the small habitat you're observing. Sounds to me more like you're just seeing younger deer with underdeveloped racks... missing brow points isn't necessarily a poor bloodline.. nor is a big six necessarily a mature buck yet... he might be a young deer with a lot of potential... most hunters inability to identify or distinguish between a truly mature buck and a very healthy young buck is where most of the misconceptions come from. My knowledge isn't opinion... or from just watching the deer while I hunt, it comes from studying whitetails and their biology for the last 25 years outside of hunting.

I must say that even though the doe only doesn't affect the areas I hunt... the DEC pulled this one out of left field somewhere... no explanation, no justification, no rhyme or reason, not even any input taken from hunters... they basically blind sided everyone... that doesn't make a lot of sense no matter if it affects you or not... a poor decision in my opinion. Well, unless their objective was to piss off a lot of hunters.

I find it rather strange how hunters will tell you that antlers don't matter... until you tell them they can't have any. I seem to remember a thread where hunters were asked if they would hunt still if there was no buck hunting allowed in NY.. the majority said "Yes, antlers aren't really that important... I'm a meat hunter anyway". And no Phase you weren't one of those that said that. But for others it seem like the attitude has changed. I get it... I'm just sayin'

I'm saying that the genetics may not have been so drastically different as to make a difference in the outcome of the study. I'm not sure that you can change the DNA of a bloodline with increased nutrition, better bloodlines will occur over time most likely as new bloodlines from younger more healthy bucks enter the area... My point earlier was just that... neither is better than the other because both must be present to produce superior bucks at maturity. The other thing some forget is that you cant necessarily tell the genetics of a bloodline by one deer... there are many other factors that can change antler configuration and body size... one being an injury early on in a deer's life that may be mistaken for a bad trait in the bloodline later on. A better sample would be to watching for a trend that occurs among many deer. Plus, just because a deer never gets any more points than eight doesn't mean that he is genetically inferior to a buck that produces 10 points... the genetics are just different not good or bad. there are very few exceptional bloodlines be they great or very poor... most are very natural and healthy bloodlines just different and will produce very handsome mature animals... the Frankenstein deer seldom occurs in the wild

Beam length and antler spread are far easier to see than counting points and much better for judging maturity if in fact killing mature bucks is the objective... But, to your point I think the bigger problem is that hunters don't feel the need for and/or don't understand or care about the objective. That is where ARs in NY will always fall short... if the hunters are not in it all the way they will be looking for the closest animal to the minimum standard...which will always be a recipe for failure... if the DEC can't get all on board to take the time to make sure they are shooting the right buck then no program or restriction will ever work effectively... I do agree with you however that most hunters would rather not have to take the time, mostly because they have no use for the program itself.

Sorry but I'm not willing to pass up my deer season over a doe only season.... many of you either have forgotten or are not old enough to remember what it was like 30-40 years ago... hunters have it pretty good today as far as tags go and the ability to take many deer each season as well as the length of season being longer. Be very careful what you wish for

Antler spread IS the best way to tell a mature buck in the field by his antlers alone... whether or not most hunters are able to do that is another thing entirely... AR's can only protect small bucks if the restriction is adequate to do so... three on a side is not adequate... It would be far more productive to educate hunters on what a big mature buck actually looks like before trying any program to protect young bucks... even more so the DEC needs to accurately, and effectively explain why it is necessary to protect younger bucks... without doing those things AR's are worthless and ineffective as a real conservation tool. I find that the trend of many hunters being selective by choice is working much better than any mandate implemented so far.

You never hunt with your muzzleloader during the regular season?

The genetics may have been different in the study, yet still sufficient genetics in each group to produce a handsome antlered buck... a genetically poor bloodline or genetically mutated bloodline would not have had the same results... The term genetics is sometimes mistaken in its meaning... skewed either to mean extremely good genetic or extremely bad... the reality is that most wild bloodlines have ample genetic makeup to produce handsome bucks in a healthy habitat. Although, each bloodline might produce a different rack configuration and number of typical points... Bucks that are over supplemented in captivity usually produce very large non-typical configurations brought on by whatever Frankenstein nutritional concoction the deer farm is using to produce Ninja Mutant Whitetails even the bad genetics will produce huge mutant antlers.

you pretty much nailed it... maybe add that its a place where most hunters wouldn't go WITH a map and a compass... a place where finding a deer is secondary to finding your way out at the end of the day..

Never seen a wild dog in the woods... not sure that is at a problem level either... isolated cases are much different than an across the board problem... I would say automobiles kill more deer than either dogs or yotes.

???? No basis in fact... might be a theory someone came up with I'm guessing. The only REAL impact on deer anywhere would be fawn kill which has more to do with fawning areas than agriculture or woods... fawning areas would be harder for coyotes to pinpoint in the wooded areas than the agricultural areas if we're going for a theory... Lets just say that any problem with coyote vs. deer is remote and extremely isolated at best... and certainly NOT an epidemic in NY like some would suggest.

Good boy.. you finally got it.

So you're saying the bears are decimating the deer herd now? The fact that wild prey die a terrible and sometimes noisy death is not proof that your coyotes are a problem... especially since that is just a fact of nature and is unavoidable in nature... But, thanks for passing on the word about the imagined coyote problem to your friends it saves me time of having to explain it all over again.. . much appreciated. And if you'd like to hunt some real woods, let me know sometime I'll take you along with me... bring your compass you'll need it.

What you tend to see with a more structured age class of bucks which some AR programs can give... (mainly because AR's usually come with higher doe harvest plan as well) is an increase is average body weight among the deer because of healthier herds and earlier born fawns. After a period of time where there is a GOOD management plan that includes the protection of younger bucks and ample population control you will get better nutrition (more available food) and allow for the breeding of potentially better blood lines. That's the science and it has been proven. Whether or not protection of young bucks is accompanied by the rest of a good management program is usually where the problem lies and will determine the success of the overall plan.

great pic wooly of that savage deer killer..lol

Some like the challenge, some like the meat, some like it easier, some harder etc. etc. It doesn't much matter as long as they're out doing it because they enjoy it. That is what I like to see. The enthusiasm is what keeps hunters out there and what bonds us all together... think about it, that's why we are all here on the forum... a common interest in an activity that we all enjoy in our own way. We buy a license, we kill deer, we share our experiences and have some fun doing it ... even during the off season. That's pretty special.

How does one hear a coyote kill a deer??? If hunters are so worried about the coyote population then they should get their asses out and hunt them whenever the season is open. That isn't happening... therefore my conclusion would be it isn't as important as most hunters claim... otherwise it would be at the top of their list of things to hunt outside of deer season. The coyote problem in most cases is imagined not real.

If you're referring to the Big Buck Club Banquet... yes, I really enjoy seeing all the different configurations of antlers... they're kind of like snowflakes... no two are really exactly the same... every year it seems that I see at least one rack that amazes me.

For the record I do like hunting does with muzzleloader late season... but mostly because I'm after venison. I guess its more like shopping for meat more than thrilling to me... being in the woods is more the excitement for me during that time... and I really enjoy shooting an old school patch & ball muzzleloader... this year I am looking at using my flintlock exclusively during the late hunt... puts a little hitch in the giddyup!