wolc123

I skinned the doe that I spined with the 16 gauge Remington "slugger" tonight, and the meat damage looks pretty intense. The front quarters and hind quarters are good, but there is not much usable meat at all left on the backstraps. The damage from that single 16 gauge foster slug on the spine from 80 yards away is at least 4X that from (2) 12 gauge Hornady SST sabots from 100 yards away on a buck the year before (one on the spine and one just below). I only lost a chop or two on that one. Both deer were struck on the spine about half way between the front and back legs, and all (3) of the slugs passed thru. They were also each shot from the same tree stand, 7 feet up. I guess I will have to call that: "the spine stand". I certainly do not advocate the spine shot and these were just the result of a bad scope last season, and a bit of a far shot for the gun this season. I am going to do my best to try for center lung shots from here on out this year, no matter where I am hunting or what weapon I am hunting with.

Don't discount the "beginners luck" factor. Some deer live thru many seasons by doing things that "expert" hunters would never predict. Your lack of experience gives you an edge in that situation. Here an easy tip for you: Lots of hunters like to follow deer tracks in the snow. Deer can hide themselves, but they can not hide their tracks. If you hunt near spots of heavy cover, where you have seen tracks, you stand a good chance of getting a shot at a deer that is being pushed by a "tracker". There should be plenty of "trackers" on public land, especially on the weekends. Stalking to a shooting position on a deer takes a certain amount of experience and know-how. Ambushing one that was pushed by another is the quickest way for a beginner to score.

(2) from stands 7 ft up so far this year (20 yard shot on crossbow buck and 80 yard shot on slug gun doe).

How did you all make out with your guns and caliber ? The old Ithaca got the job done on a doe at 80 yards on Saturday, just like it has every time since I put the Weaver 1.5X scope on it back around 1984. I think I will take it back there again this coming Saturday morning (still have a buck tag and three more 9f DMP's). Besides always getting the job done, my favorite thing about that gun is: the 16 gauge slugs only cost me 20 cents each. I bought all they had for $ 1 a box at a Sporting goods store "going out of business sale" up in Brewerton about 16 years ago. I will have to check out the meat damage, compared to the 12 gage Hornady SST's that I used last year. That 3.5 year old buck was also hit thru the spine from about 20 yards farther away. I could not believe how little meat was damaged by those Hornady sabots. I am thinking that the full-diameter, 16 gauge Remington sluggers might have done considerably more. I will find out Friday night when I process that doe. The doe also looks to be about 3.5 years old. Most of the rigor mortis should be gone after hide-on hanging for 6 days at 32 - 42 F in our insulated garage, so she will be ready for the freezer. I would let her go a few more days, but I have too much going on over the weekend, and I have to clear the hook in case other(s) arrive.

2.5

I normally do not save the livers from older deer, but I did save the one from my crossbow buck this year. I definitely think there is something to be said for getting the blood out of it. That buck was double-lunged with a mechanical broadhead, and bled out very well. I can't recall better flavored liver, with none of that metallic taste. I also left it in the fridge for a week prior to frying, medium rare in olive oil with onions after rolling in flour. It was extremely tender, except for the valves, which were a little rubbery. Last Saturday's shotgun doe looked a little older and did not bleed out very well, so I left the liver in the woods with the rest of the guts. I did keep the heart though, and my wife will pickle that after we get a few more.

Meat

I have doubled a few times (usually a doe and a button buck). I came close Saturday, but the doe pulled herself back up on her front legs. I sent a second shot her way, and the other two escaped unharmed. I always stay focused on the downed deer from my stand for several minutes, making sure it does not get back up, then go down and gut it with no further delay. If more folks did that, instead of texting BBD, etc., or trying for a double, we would probably see more recovered deer. It is all about the meat for me and the sooner I get the guts out, the better it tastes. The thought of backing out and leaving a deer overnight with the guts in it really turns my stomach, no matter how cold it is outside. The only time I delay 1/2 hour, before going after a deer, is if it was hit with an arrow and I did not see or hear it go down. I did drag the gutted doe about 40 yards from my stand Saturday, hoping that a buck might come by (none did). Several years ago, on another opening day of gun season, I killed the largest doe from a group of (5) or (6) antlerless deer with my ML. She must have been the leader, because the rest hung around for a few minutes, before dispersing in various directions. I had my short 870, 12 ga for backup, but I only had one doe permit. I put the empty ML down and aimed the loaded slug gun at her, but she never twitched. She was about 75 yards away. About (2) minutes later, before I climbed down to gut her, I saw two antlered deer approaching. The one with the larger rack stopped and stood next to the downed doe, while the smaller one stood almost under my stand. Naturally, I fired at the bigger one, even though it was a bit of a poke for my open-sighted 870. I regretted that decision later, while gutting that busted-up 8-pointer (he flopped down dead right beside the doe), because he had an old broadhead wound thru the backstraps, above the spine and I lost a good bit of meat by trimming away all the "questionable" looking stuff. The four pointer that had stood below my stand would have been an easier shot and probably would have yielded nearly as much usable meat.

My favorite meal at a deer camp was stroganoff over noodles made from canned moose. I just got a late-ML season invite from that camp again this year. Hopefully, they have a few jars of that stuff left.

As far as the taxidermy goes, the last few years, European mounts have been gaining popularity. Those are relatively easy to do yourself, with just a power washer. I garbage-picked one of those (5) years ago, and have done about (6) bucks with it so far, the last one just today. It only takes about a half hour to blast everything off and out of the skull (except for the antlers). There are also some good youtube videos on that process. Many folks like to have the skulls dipped after the process in a cammo pattern or glossy white. I prefer just leaving them natural. The old way of doing this involved boiling a pot of water and scraping everything out as it cooked and softens. That was a stinky messy job. Going outside, on a concrete pad, wearing a rainsuit, with a fresh skinned head and a power washer is a much faster, cleaner way of getting it done. The best part is, birds and vermin will usually clean up all the mess overnight. Another option is to burry the head with the antlers sticking up out of the ground and digging it up the following late spring. I guess there might be a few folks out there who actually have the patience to do it that way.

Welcome to the site where I am certain you can find answers to all your questions. I can't help much with the near NYC stuff, because I am nearly as far as you can get on the Western end of the state. I have heard that there is some decent hunting around Westchester and Long Island. As far as the other stuff goes, there are lots of good youtube videos on gutting. A butt-out tool gets that process started a lot easier and faster (also good videos on that). Just make sure you stick it in the right hole if you kill a doe. If you want to get a buck mounted that you intend to process yourself, cut thru the hide, behind the front legs, and skin the deer from that cut, towards the head. Saw off the head at the base of the neck, leave the hide attached, put it in a garbage bag, and freeze it. Take the frozen head/hide to the taxidermist of your choice, along with your carcass tag. You also need to have the carcass tag attached to the gutted deer if you take it to a processor. They almost always know how to remove a head for a taxidermist.

I shot this doe at 8:20 opening day morning. This is the 1st doe for me on my grandpa's old farm in 38 seasons of hunting there. I used his old Ithaca model 37 16 ga. to finally get it done. She may be the same one that I messed up on over there last year, when my Marlin m512 froze up and failed to fire as two small bucks chased her right under my stand. She looks to be about 3.5 years old and has a 37" chest girth. I got up in the stand on the edge of a swamp about 1/2 hour before legal sunrise. At 8:00 I heard a twig snap behind me and turned to see three deer approaching about 50 yards away. They were in some thick brush, but I could see that they all lacked antlers as they got closer. I was seated in a cheap hang-on stand and they were on my right side. They were too close for me to try and stand up, so I shouldered the gun on my left. The biggest one was in front, the smallest in the middle, and a middle sized one in the rear. I got the crosshairs on the last one, quartering away, at about 40 yards. I was 99 percent sure it had no antlers, but only about 60 percent sure I could make the shot, since I had never shot left-handed and there was a bit of brush between me and the deer. I elected to hold off, and just watched them walk out of sight. 20 minutes later, they must have made a big circle and were now headed back to where they came from but were about 80 yards away on my left. The last one stopped behind a downed tree. The shot was on the far side for the old Ithaca with it's 1.5X Weaver scope (that seems to make the deer look smaller), but I was again 99 percent sure that the deer had no antlers and about 80 percent sure that I could make the kill shot, with the gun well-rested with my elbows on my knees, from the seated position. At my shot, the deer dropped straight down. The other two ran forward a bit and stopped, facing towards me. I contemplated trying for a "double" (I have (4) dmp tags), but the downed doe began to lift herself up from behind the tree. I could only see her head and neck and I took a second shot at that and then she disappeared, as did the other two deer. When I climbed down and approached the downed tree, I heard a snort. When I got around the tree I saw her dragging herself away with her front legs. I finished her with a shot to the back of the head. While gutting her, I noted that my first shot had struck a couple inches higher than I intended, and broke her spine, just behind the shoulder. I was sorry that she had to suffer a bit longer than necessary. Had I used the Marlin, I might have been able to place that shot a little better, but there is no guarantee it would have gone off in those cold temperature conditions. It was a good opening weekend. With this doe added to the freezer which also contains my crossbow buck and some "leftovers" from last year, I am thankful that our family will have enough meat to make it thru another year. My brother in law was given a couple of deer from others, so I don't need to worry about getting one for him this year. I am slightly relieved to get thru the weekend and still have my buck tag. Oddly enough, this was the first hunt, since crossbow season began, when all the deer that I saw lacked antlers. Prior to Saturday, I can't say for sure that any that I saw in the Southern zone did not have antlers.

A quart of cider and a couple candy bars can keep me out there all day, but today it was a couple hot-dogs and a big bowl of chili at the folks house during a 1 hour break. Had I not forgot the cider, I would have stayed out thru lunch. Lots of big ones get tipped over during that lunch time hour. No big deal for me, and I don't really care, because my freezer is nearly full and I really want my buck tag to make it until Thanksgiving weekend (so I can deer hunt then up in the northern zone). Hunting at home this morning, I remembered to bring everything (including the cider), but I forgot to do something when I got into my "east-wind" blind. It cost me a shot at a fine "target of opportunity": The blind is covered by an old aluminum truck cap. The back window/door (faces East), and the window on the North side opened up easily when I got in there, 1/2 hour before sunrise, when the temperature was about 5 deg F. The window on to South side (most likely to get a shot at a deer from), was frozen shut. It took me about 10 minutes of pounding, using the heel of my hand against my Gerber folding saw, to force it open. I did not expect to see anything at daybreak due to all that racket. I settled into the super-comfy swivel office chair and waited patiently. At 10 am I looked behind and saw something big in the middle of the neighbor's hay field to my West. There is a small sliding "cab-access" window on that side, which I normally do not open because I do not want to shoot a deer that is on my neighbor's land. I wish the window was open this morning though, because there was a huge red-phase coyote, not a deer, out in the middle of that field less than 100 yards away. My neighbor would have been thrilled if I shot that. I never saw one move as fast as that one did when I cracked loose and opened that little window. It disappeared at warp speed, before I could even touch my gun. I did not see any deer, but there is barely a scrap of meat left on the deer carcass pile that I started out back last weekend. I will add a bit more to that today and this Friday after I butcher yesterday's doe. I don't know how the deer hunting will be at home, but the coyote hunting might be ok.

Thankfully, I never have that type of trouble with it and I really missed the cider today. I can stay in the stand all day if I bring a quart of hot cider to drink. I shot the doe at 8:20 then dragged the gutted carcass to a spot 30 yards from my stand (legal baiting ?) hoping that might draw in the big buck that I saw over there last Saturday. No such luck. I started getting thirsty at 11:00, so I called my dad to bring his side-by-side ATV to fetch her. I rode up to the house to eat munch with them (and drink about 1/2 gallon of cold cider from their fridge). I went back out and sat in another stand till 4:40 pm but no more sightings. In 38 deer seasons, with lots of all day sits and many gallons of cider drank, there has never been a single time when I had to crap in the woods.

My thermos of hot cider. Last year, a slammer buck came in from downwind after I opened that up. That must be why I only saw (3) antlerless deer today. At least I was able to fill a dmp with a fat doe and I still have my buck tag. We will see if any bucks show up tomorrow when I hopefully will remember the cider.

Rem-oil (For TF)

I used Rem-oil on it before and after the last time. My plan now is to only hunt with it when the temp is above 32, until I get some "CLP" worked into it. Then it should be good down to -10 or so (I don't need meat bad enough to hunt colder than that). Water was involved in both prior freeze-ups, so I think I will be ok above 32 F. The first time, I had hunted in the rain on a Saturday and not got it dried up and cleaned adequately, the temperature dropped way down overnight. The next day it froze up - sparing the life of the first doe I would have killed on my grandad's old farm. Another doe got saved there last year by a freeze-up, on another extremely cold day, a couple weeks after I had dropped the gun in a swamp while dragging out my buck. I have heard good things about the "CLP" (apparently the Army uses it). Hopefully that will put an end to those freezups. Fortunately, it has not occurred on an antlered buck, although the one last year was the only one I have taken with that gun. The Marlin m512 is a real tack-driver, but that don't do me much good if it don't fire. I will settle for an "under 100 yard shot only" with the old Ithaca tomorrow morning. The spot I am going is pretty thick so a shot farther than that is highly unlikely anyhow.

Based on the cold weather forecast, it looks like it will be my grandpa's old Ithaca model 37, 16-gauge smoothbore with 1.5X Weaver scope. It has been (7) seasons since I killed a buck with that gun. I will be hunting on his old farm that morning, so it seems right. That gun has never failed to fire, no matter how cold it is (unlike my Marlin m512 which froze up a couple of times). Sunday afternoon, it is supposed to warm up to 37, so I will wait until then to break out the Marlin with it's new Redfield Revolution 2-7X scope. It don't look like there is any precipitation in the forecast, so my open-sited Remington 870 12-gauge will stay in the safe.

I never sweat unless I get nervous. I did on opening day of crossbow season this year, when I struggled for almost an hour to find the carcass of the 3.5 year old eight-point that I had just center-punched thru the lungs (I thought he was a 2.5, until I skinned the skull and put it up against a few others for comparison last night). His rack was huge (by my standards) but his body significantly smaller then the 3.5's that I had killed on the previous two years. I swore that I heard him crash in a nearby thicket, but a last minute false trail and what must have been another deer, had led me in the wrong direction. I'd have got the guts out of him a lot quicker (and sweated a lot less), had I just followed the blood all the way to the carcass like you are supposed to do. I was pretty well drenched when I finally found him and did get the guts out.

Long tongue or G2's ?

It happened to me last year, on this very week. On the Saturday morning before gun-season, I got busted 7 feet up in a hang-on stand, by a big buck that came in from down-wind as I was drinking hot cider from a shiney chrome cup. I thought the crunching I heard in the leaves, 20 yards behind me, was "just another squirrel". When I turned around, I saw him there. He was looking right at me and that cup, with those big black eyes and magnificent, high-tined 8-point, 3.5 year old antlers. I stood there completely helpless, holding the cider cup, as my crossbow hung on a hook. He walked off, into some heavy cover. About an hour later, I removed that hang-on stand from the tree it was in. I moved it a few hundred yards in the direction where I last saw that buck. That is where I was the following Saturday, with my Marlin m512 slug-gun and its old beat-up Bushnell Banner 4x scope. Just after sunrise, I saw three small-bodied deer that were too far away to shoot at or identify clearly. It was a cold morning, and I drank my first cup of hot cider, soon after they disappeared. The big guy must have really liked apples. Just after I replaced the cup on the thermos, I heard a branch break far off in the down-wind direction. Looking over there, I saw a large-bodied deer moving thru the brush on the edge of a swamp. Clearly he had a decent rack and was "a shooter" for me which means at least three points on a side. I fired my first shot, from about 100 yards away, when he reached an opening. He kept walking and stopped right behind a clump of trees. I held my gun on that clump for what seemed like 10 minutes, until he finally stepped out. My second shot broke his back, and put him down on it. I saw a hoof twitching, up in the air, and figured he was done for. I had to get around some deep swamp water, to get to where he was. I was not exactly sure I was in the right spot, until I saw him lift that big, high-tined rack up with his front legs. I gave him a third slug, to the neck, from point-blank range. As it turned out, this was the same buck from the week before, but he had lost a couple of his tines and was now a busted-up 6 point, 42" chest girth, 182 pounds field-dressed. I called my brother on the phone and he brought a big plastic toboggan that we used to float him across the deep part of the swamp, from the little island on which he died. I left that stand right where it was and have not hunted out of it during archery season this year. I did see a big buck heading towards it from another stand last Saturday. I know where I will be on opening day morning this year. I feel pretty good about my chances. My shots ought to be truer, with a nice new Redfield scope mounted on the old Marlin.

Antlerless tags are very difficult to fill at my two spots in the southern zone. I have not seen any for sure thru archery season, and I am certainly not holding off if any show up during gun (have (4) dmp tags). Usually, my rule for antlered bucks is 3 points on a side or more up until Thanksgiving (a 3" unicorn is enough after that). I am upping that to 4 points on a side / outside the ears this year, because the freezer is in good shape now (thanks to leftovers from last year and a solid, well-outside-the-ears 8-point) and I really missed having a gun buck tag up in the Adirondacks for my annual trip last Thanksgiving. I would be thrilled with a decent button buck on opening day, and my wife even more so.

Trouble is, some guys just don't have the balls to try them.

Lots of good stuff already mentioned: Muff with a couple handwarmers, Bibs, Wool hat and face mask, snacks. A few more that help me: 1) Sip on a cup of hot cider from a thermos (5 minutes in the microwave gets 4 cups to the right temp). Besides the warmth, the cider keeps you hydrated, gives you calories, and sometimes attracts deer to your location from downwind. 2) 3 ft high solid wall around your position in blind or stand. This breaks the wind to keep you warm, and also keeps your movements hidden from the deer, provides a gun-rest, and keeps you safe. 3) Military "mickey mouse" boots - the black ones are good to about -10 and the white ones to about - 40 F. They are also waterproof. My feet have never got cold in the black ones, which are a little less bulky. They can be had for about $ 80 new or $ 40 surplus. 4) Down vest. 5) Stay in shape so you don't sweat your "a..." off walking to your spot. 6) Open up your zippers and take off your hat so you don't sweat your "a.." off walking to your spot even if you are in shape. 7) Shoot a deer and gut it - it is always warm inside.

I will never leave them in a gut pile again. The pepper is definitely the key ingredient. Hopefully, I will be enjoying a couple more for lunch this Sunday.