ejp419

A couple little Greene County bucks lol. Nah. They're on the hit list. A couple good 9's.

You're still not listening Larry.. it's not about killing bigger deer. It's about balancing the age structure in bucks... the real problem is hunters like you can't get the big deer thing out of their head and look at it from a management standpoint. Well said nyantler.

Shooting older bucks doesnt get rid of does, smartass. Actually it does. If all the guys shooting spikes and four pointers shot a older buck or a doe. The amount of older bucks will never be as great as the number of yearling bucks, so therefore shooting older bucks and does does balance out the herd. I don't see where your confused. Sorry, but just implementation of ARs does not accomplish what you are talking about. You would need to completely revamp the DMP system so that all hunters would be guaranteed a doe permit, and in some areas of the state, thats just not possible. Again, shooting older buck does not get rid of does. So you're telling me if less bucks are shot and the same amount of does are shot then the buck to doe ratio doesn't become more balanced? It's not to hard to figure out. Do the simple math. The AR isn't a cureall for everything, but it's a start. I live in Greene County. Right on the Hudson River. There are way more does then bucks. For example two years ago, opening day, I saw 14 different does and fawns. No buck. Many time you can drive around and see 10-15 does and fawns. No bucks. I don't know where the rest of you live but in my neck of the woods the truth is it's pretty close to 12:1. Believe what you want to.

And also DMAP's allow only the shooting of does and only during open season with a liscensed hunter so that big 4 pointer would be safe...

Shooting older bucks doesnt get rid of does, smartass. Actually it does. If all the guys shooting spikes and four pointers shot a older buck or a doe. The amount of older bucks will never be as great as the number of yearling bucks, so therefore shooting older bucks and does does balance out the herd. I don't see where your confused.

So how do AR's not help the buck to doe ratio oh wise one?

4S and I can't believe there's no doe permits this yerar. Makes me sick!!

By letting bucks grow up kinda makes sense there will be more of them, no? By letting bucks grow up and shooting more does seems to me will balance the ratio a bit.

You can't compare western NY to any other part of the state. I hunt and live in 4S. I know that 4S could use an AR. A 12 to 1 doe to buck ratio isn't healthy. Yes, we get a fluke big deer once in a while but not very often...

I hunt 4S. It is an unhealthy herd when the doe to buck ratio is about 12-1 and that's before hunting season. I don't think AR's should be statewide, but in my area there's a need for less does and more bucks.

Well, we been hunting by the "3 inch law" for 100 years. How about you open up ur mind a bit and try a different approach? I have never heard anyone say that they think New York is the best place to hunt. Ya know why? Cause we been hunting by the "3 inch rule" for 100 years...

Why didn't u mention does for meat?

I can't believe that there is so much resentment to the fact that ya might have to let spikes, threes and most four pointers walk by. Imagine letting a buck walk by and the next year seeing him growing up. It's much more rewarding then walking up to him being a dead spike. Try letting a deer walk by. It's much more rewarding. Try not shooting a deer just cause it's a deer. It's much more rewarding. Try enjoying the hunt, not the kill. It's much more rewarding. A yearling buck is the dumbest animal in the woods come November. It's it really satisfying killing him?

This should eliminate some of the confusion about deer genetics and it comes from a PA wildlife biologist. Telling the geneetics of a 1.5 year old deer is virtually impossible. Does also carry the same gentics as bucks. AR's are not perfect but bottom line is it is a step in the right direction. It's easier for most hunters to count points then age a deer by body characteristics. One thing I do know; when you shot a spike or four pointer I guess his genetics don't matter. The deer is dead! Antler restrictions are killing our best genetics by harvesting 6 & 8 pointers 1.5 year olds. What do you think? Antler restrictions have been a positive for Pennsylvania’s deer management program. Since antler restrictions started in 2002, yearling buck survival has increased (from 15% to 52%), harvest of adult bucks has increased (from ~20% to ~50% of total buck harvest), and hunter support has increased (from 57% to 63%). However, there are still criticisms, many of which center around genetics. The argument that we are removing our “best” yearling bucks from the population, which in turn is affecting population genetics, is common. However, when we take a closer look, with the help of new technology and research, the genetics concern is unfounded. First, deer are wild animals in an uncontrolled environment. Unlike a bull in a pasture full of cows that can’t run away, a buck’s world is full of competition. Bucks compete with each other and must compete for receptive does. Genetics research has shown that yearling males are participating in breeding even in populations with 50% of males being 3.5 years old and older. Since most of Pennsylvania’s bucks are harvested during the gun season and AFTER the breeding season, a yearling buck that is removed has likely already had the opportunity to breed and pass on his genes. Second, recent research has shown that the amount of growth in the first set of antlers in white-tailed males is a poor predictor of antler growth at maturity. A study conducted over 10 years which followed hundreds of wild, free-ranging white-tailed bucks from their first set of antlers found that by the time bucks reached maturity (4.5 years old), there was no difference in antler measurements between those that had spikes or 3 points as yearlings compared to those that had 4 or more points as yearlings. This suggests that spike and 3-point yearlings can grow the same size antlers as yearling bucks with 4 or more points. All have the capability to produce large antlers at maturity. Third, let us not forget that all deer receive genes from both their parents. To date, no one has classified the genetic contribution of a doe to her male fawn’s antler growth. And in Pennsylvania, there is no harvest selection on adult does. Their removal is “genetically” random. Even if we wanted to alter the genetics of Pennsylvania’s deer herd, it would be extremely difficult to do. I know determining the actual date of the rut

if anyone around me shoota an illegal buck they will be turned in. I already told them. I don't care who you are. I watch over 600 acres, 345 of it I am the only one allowed on. If I see any illegal activity I call. Lt. ECO lives right down the road from the property

Oh, and now I got 2 hounds myself lol. A 2 yr old that's already kick ass on coyotes, and a pup that's is gonna kick ass lol

Let me tell ya about hunting coyotes lol. Last year I started huntin them with hounds; Running Walkers. What a blast!! Ended up getting about 20 of them from Jan to Mar. Called in 7 and shot 5 of those. I think we, as deer hunters, owe it to the deer to shot as many as we can. Take some time in the winter and go coyote hunting. Nothin like shooting 2,3,4,5,6 coyotes in a day. I keep my trail cams out all summer. Last year I nethier seen or got pictures of many fanws at all. By shooting 7 coyotes out of the area last winter this year almost every doe has a fawn and there's numerous sets of twins. SHOOT COYOTES!!