Mr VJP

Maybe I am missing something, but I'm at a loss to think of a single post you have ever made that did not portray hunters in a negative way. It seems you do not consider hunters to be worthy of respect. So many know so little? Quite a judgemental opinion you've got there. It's not the first time I've seen you show it either. No offense meant. Just an observation that makes me wonder why you post on a hunting forum.

Hounds, I can see why you're pro-coyote being a hound hunter and trapper. That's great. I heard a coyote pelt will now bring $100. A good increase in price from a year ago.

Tracks in the snow and trail cameras tell the tale Hounds. Why do you doubt what doesn't help your belief? Try to keep an open mind. Once again I ask, it wasn't long ago when there were no coyote in the Catskills. Do you actually believe their invasion has not had any negative effects and they are nothing but positive additions to NY?

The other side of the issue begs the question, how did this NY ecosystem ever survive without any coyotes then?

They are actually both.

Hounds77. I was referring to a year round season vs a limited one on coyote. That is a management technique used to eliminate varmint. Deer are not varmint and we are striving to increase their numbers in many areas because they add value to the wild, to the state and to the hunters, who in turn generate income for the economy. Deer are a renewable resource. Coyote are an expense. I fail to understand how you don't think that is logical. No problem Wooly. I was just asking if you were aware of that.

Or he's just questioning their conclusions using logic.

Wooly, your post is actually in contrast to those who are preaching the mantra coyote have "minimal" effect on deer populations. You seem to be saying coyote are better at controlling the size of a deer population than hunters are. If that is true, wouldn't you say they have a pretty big impact on deer populations? Since economically speaking, good deer populations are good for NY, isn't allowing coyotes to reduce the size of the herd negating the money being spent by NY state protecting deer herds?

When I hunted the Catskills 40 years ago, there were no coyote at all. There were, however, larger herds of deer and even more turkey than I see these days. And turkey were still on the comeback in those days. I can't help but feel folks who want the coyote protected can't differentiate coyote from domestic dogs. If someone really loves dogs, I can see them not wanting coyote populations eliminated because they have an emotional concern and attachment to canines. The trouble is, they are not domestic dogs, though they may bear a resemblance to one. They are wild dogs that would be put down in a heart beat if they were someone's pet and simply did what they naturally do.

Plenty of good things come to NY from having a good sized healthy deer population. Can we say the same about coyote?

Come again? I don't see the connection.

Let's take a look at this from the other side. I see nothing good that comes from coyote populations in any given area of NY State. What would we lose in the wild if there were no coyotes in NY?

The article points out coyote populations do impact deer fawns and the number that survive. It appears to say up to 20% of fawns are affected. They also affect turkey reproduction. It then goes on to call that "minimal". Considering all the factors that are affecting fawn survival, all of the "minimal" factors add up. DEC works to eliminate a lot of the factors. Coyotes should remain on the list.

It also touches on the effects coyotes have on stressing the deer herd and if that is detrimental to all of them, including the adult deer. I see this as an area many proponents of coyote protection do not discuss. Hounds77, I'd like to know why you were opposed to year round coyote hunting.

This article proves the impact of coyotes on deer numbers is far from totally understood.

How is it that having no closed season on yotes can be considered unsuccessful? Are we saying allowing the hunting of yotes year round increases their numbers, or nobody wanted to hunt them in the summer?

That's the argument usually made, but it's flawed. In reality, LEO's represent the state. When the general public sees laws that punish crimes against the state and it's enforcement arm, but not against the general public, it begins to believe it lives in a police state. I have the utmost respect for all LEO's and think today's level of prejudice against them from some citizens is disgusting. However I don't think the law enforcement community does itself any favors when it starts worrying about itself more than the general public it is sworn to serve. The LEO community would be much better off demanding the death penalty be used equally for murder in the interest of equal justice for all. Besides, how many murderers are released from prison eventually and become a threat to all LEO's when they are? It would have been better to execute the child killer, kidnapper, rapist and pusher for killing someone, than to spend millions of tax dollars on him, only to put polite society in danger again in the future. If we are going to use the death penalty at all, we need to use it for all. But, that's an altogether different subject from the SAFE Act oppressions.

I believe that is true, but it leaves me wondering why they only lobbied for it's use when an LEO is killed. The FOP, PBA and police unions never lobbied for it's general return for all murderers. I know the cost to taxpayers is very high when the state seeks to use it, but I guess the state doesn't think regular people are worth the expense.

I also have a big problem with the death penalty for someone killing an LEO, but not for killing me or one of my family members. As long as LEO's also have a problem with that, and are working to change it, I have no problem with those LEO's either.

Some people in other states, that are pretty free with their firearms laws, do not have many place where their citizens can shoot them. Upstate NY has lots of places to shoot but the laws are horrible. That's why we will still see people from other states wanting to shoot their rifles in NY state. I have no problem with police being able to own semi auto black guns and taking them home, as long as they have a big problem with me not being able to do the same.

This EPA (Economic Persecution Agency) is going to be the biggest player in this administration's tyrannical agenda over the next two years. Meanwhile, ISIS will be burning human bodies to keep warm.

I think it would also be better if there wasn't any closed season on them.

We started hunting them about a decade ago in my area when we first started seeing them. If for no other reason than we knew they were there and didn't like being awakened at 3AM by their howling. I guess our hunting was effective, as we hardly ever see any around anymore except on the opener of deer season when they get pushed around by hunters in other areas.

Neither of those

It's all factory stock, so there are no issues other than magazines.