Curmudgeon

Good article!

Stress on herbivores isn't bad. It is neutral. It changes behavior. Those changes can be good or bad. It depends on your point of view. Every change that effects habitat has winners and losers. Consider the wolves in Yellowstone stressing the elk. They keep the elk out of the riparian areas. In some of those areas the willows are regenerating. Many species that needed those vegetated riparian areas are returning making for a healthier ecosystem.

It also says they don't take adult deer. Their main impact is to fawns - which all get dropped in a short time, providing an excess of prey at a time when woodchucks and other medium sized prey are plentiful. I'm all for more science. In 4 years we will know what new information they have.

Eventually, maybe. NYS has not been ruled out as an option. There are a couple of complications that may go away over the next year or so.

Hey - members of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club - The conventional wisdom is taking a hit. Where are you guys?

I was trying to get funding for a grad student at ESF to study NYS wintering Golden Eagles. We have more than met the PR match already.

Mike is right. All hunters should support keeping public land "public".

I was talking about PR money. I was told that one of the problems within the agency is a lack of staff to do the paperwork for projects. This may or may not be true. I was advocating for something at the time.

That's Harsh Belo. Those same people who saved our asses during the American Revolution?

Bow Addict - Are you calling Canadians vermin? Or, do you want to come back as one when you are reincarnated?

Belo - Eccentricity comes first. You probably have that covered. Being curmudgeonly comes next, with age. You are on your way. It helps to be a Yankee and a curmudgeon. My daughter's partner is from the south. He doesn't get it. He thinks everyone should be polite - at least on the surface. My son lives in France. They all get it. Some call the French arrogant and badly mannered. I think they are normal. They have a reputation for disliking Americans but they all seem to like me. They make fun of our last name because it is a "four letter word" in French. They think the dumb Americans don't know what it is but we just laugh with them.

Guys - We can always use more curmudgeons. However, be warned, if you put on the curmudgeon mantle, you are bound to annoy some people. VJP - Your son sounds very eloquent. Was he home schooled?

My avatar has a high chance of eating lead, or getting caught in a leg-hold trap is the Quebec canine trap zone. They all have to migrate through that gauntlet twice a year. Best chance for a healthy long life - if you survive the early years - is a snapping turtle or large snake.

Maybe some of them are in other clubs - clubs that can speak specifically for bow hunters. Individual support is good. Organizational support is even better. If a Rockland or Orange County club asked the Conservation Council to take a position, that would be great.

Harriman is part of the Palisades Interstate Park .I only asked my contacts about Harriman. I suspect you are referring to other parks in the system. It wouldn't hurt for someone representing your club to make a call and inquire independently. They may give you the authority to act for them if you ask.

Last I knew there was ~$22 million in PR money for NYS that was doing nothing. A 25% match sounds like a good return on investment.

I like that.

I have 50 or 60 chestnut seeds that I do not need. They have been stratified and are ready to plant in pots. About 10% of my seeds are already germinating. I am planting what I want today. I will ship some to anyone who PMs me. I all ask is a couple of dollars for shipping to be put in my Paypal account. I will provide the needed information.

A mental exercise on being pro-predator (and pro-scavenger): If you were a Hindu, and were going to be reincarnated and could choose what species you would come back as, what would it be? Who would choose low on the food chain? Who would choose high? Also: I wish it were legal to do here what the Zoroastrians used to do before all the south Asian vultures were killed by the veterinary drug diclofenac: They put their dead out for the vultures to eat. The ravens I am currently feeding can consume an adult deer in 2 1/2 hours. A woman who fell to her death last hear in the Pyrenees was consumed by Griffon Vultures in 25 minutes. Don't burn me. Don't bury me. Feed me to something. Spread my molecules across the landscape in raven and eagle droppings.

Bowtech - I hope some people write letters, and get their clubs to write. I have some connections but am so far out of the area geographically, I am at a disadvantage. Please spread the word. My concern is, if the parks people are not lobbied, they will do deer management discreetly at night. I did not imagine this concern but cannot divulge where it came from.

Busting my balls is one of their favorite pastimes.

It isn't pro-yote, it's pro-predator. Yotes just seem to be the evil species of the moment. Without going into the reasons, I rarely hunt alone anymore. I spend some time in deer camp in the Dacks with friends and family. The crew comes to my place to help control an out-of-control deer population during the southern zone season. I occasionally hunt small game if someone else initiates it. I stopped hunting birds regularly when my all time favorite dog got too old and died. My motives are only that transparent sometimes. This was not intended to be about coyotes. Addressing these questions is actually a distraction. VJP calling coyotes "vermin" was just a catalyst. What I really want to know is how people categorize vermin compared to the early 20th century. Coyotes aren't part of that. Sedentary Canada Geese aren't part of that. So far, I find the answers very interesting. However, to answer your question, I have plenty of both coyotes and deer. As I said above, the thread was not intended to be about coyotes in particular. However, to address 4 Seasons comment: Yes, piles of both. I have never denied that some people have coyote problems. I recommend to people that they deal with problem coyotes, fishers, raccoons, foxes, deer etc. on a case by case basis. To make blanket statement such as in the recent Outdoor News, and in posts on this site, that killing coyotes helps deer are just wrong. An argument could be made that you are helping deer in the deep snow country and mature forest areas. I won't argue that point except to note that these are marginal deer habitats in the first place. I have said that killing coyotes does not reduce their population and may actually increase them. Killing coyotes may be sport. It may be a source of income. It may make people feel better if they found deer or turkey remains. It does not reduce their population. So please, can we drop the coyotes? Keep telling me what birds and mammals you consider vermin.

I have been talking to employees of agencies involved in hunting and management of park land in NYS. It appears that right now may be the best opportunity to open parts of Harriman State Park to bow hunting. I put this in the general hunting area because I think all hunters should support such an effort. Three decades ago, the Palisades Interstate Park Commission open parts of the park for a 3 year trial bow hunt. This was challenged in court and the Park Commission prevailed. However, after the trial, they caved to the animal rights groups and stopped hunting. In the past 30 years, a number of enviro groups - that formerly opposed the hunt – have dropped their opposition due to growing awareness of deer impacts. Impacts that may have permanently changed the vegetation of the park. The Park Commission is discussing deer management internally. They know something must be done if there is going to be any forest regeneration. They do not want to abandon the habitat to a handful of plant species that deer don't eat. What would be helpful right now is personal and organizational support for deer management in the park being done by bow hunters. If you belong to a downstate club, please try to get a letter of support from your organization. If you are a downstate hunter, please write a personal letter. Letters should be sent to: Mr. James F. Hall, Executive Director Palisades Interstate Park Commission Bear Mountain State Park Bear Mountain, NY 10911-0427 Organizations that are near the park might want to try to meet with Mr. Hall. Is there anyone out there connected to the Conservation Council who might propose they send a letter?

So, if we make sense to Cuomo, will he do what we want? Being a natural cynic, I wonder why he made the decision the way he did.

Yeah. A big problem. A rubber plug came out of my MF65 tranny and the mice packed the clutch with fuzz. Some very expensive mice.