SQ2Hunter

WNY Buckhunter you missed the point. Point being many 1.5 year old bucks made it due to the fact the weather was warm causing a lack of movement and also the lack of snow contributed to less deer being shot. Its just a theory. Sure I hunt with a gun do I consider others that hunt with a gun a hunter like me? NO not all of them. I have seen what the introduction of rifles have done to the buck population and overall population in 9Y. This is a FACT my buddies and I keep track of number of deer seen, age, and sex. And since the introduction of rifles older deer have diminished greatly. Look I posted this to see if anyone is seeing a higher number of 2.5 year olds than usual. I really dont care about turning this into a who shoots 1.5yr old bucks and who doesnt its a waste of breath. Until the DEC does something to change this(which is comming) people will shoot what people will shoot. I own land so I dont have to worry as much.

I hear ya but their is so many does here that lack of venison for the freezer is NEVER a concern.

The rut in 9Y has been in full swing for a few days now and I have seen a higher number of 2.5 year old bucks than in years past. I think this can be attributed to the warm weather and lack of snow during the 2011 hunting season. It just makes me wonder how much better NY hunting could be if we could just pass on 1.5 year olds and even these 2.5 year olds. With the weather already colder than last year and flurries in the air I'm sure we will have snow this year and many of these 2.5 year old bucks will be shot because thats all they are one year smarter than a 1.5 year old. But at least for one year I can enjoy seeing some racked bucks before the rifles start their accurate short and long range deer killing campaign. Anyone else seeing a higher number of 2.5 year olds?

A few years back I switched to the Montec G5 fixed broadheads. I liked the idea of one piece of metal that could easily be sharpened. I shot 2 different does that year hitting both of them perfectly behind the front shoulder. My dad and I found very little blood in both occurances and unfortinatley lost both deer only to find them both dead in the winter. Their was no snow on the ground at the time so tracking was difficult especially with very very little blood. Both deer did go 100 yards which I thought was far for the shot placement. I immediately switched to the rage and except for the price I very happy. The blood trail is easily identified even for a color blind guy like me. Hope this helps!

Great pictures! My guess is the first buck is a 3.5yr old the second is definatley a 2.5yr old and the third is at least 3.5 but prob 4.5. Look at how his belly hangs and he is much more defined and muscular than the first buck hes definatley a mature buck! Good luck I hope you have an opportunity at one of them....

Hey hunter-sorry Im jst responding but Ive been busy hunting. Thanks for the support but they dont get under my skin. NY State management/regulations gets under my skin. I wish our management was at least similar to Ohio. I just dont get why some hunters reject QDM- doesnt everyone want an opportunity at a mature buck?

Yea I am with you on that, my first buck was a six point shot with my father(i still have the rack) and my younger brother I was with when he shot his first buck, a spike but, that was 27 years ago when any buck was fair game. To this day I dont have a problem with a first time hunter or one in the twilight of their career shooting a 1.5year old buck. I have a concern with those individuals who consistently shoot them year after year. eig: My 90 acres is surrounded by private land which I have a good relationship with the neighboring land owners. the land owner only hunts a couple of hours first day and shoots a buck every few years. However, he has someone who bow hunts and gun hunts as well. Make a long story short it is not to difficult to shoot a 1.5yr old buck on the property. this guy(who is very nice) shoots a 1.5 yr old with his bow and gun every year he is in his late 40's early 50's. Enough is enough I pass up bucks he shoots. Oh by the way I have passed up 10 1.5 yr old bucks so far. How about you?

Couldnt of said it better

My 1187 is a mulit purpose gun. I put 3 slugs in the gun (because I leave my duck plug in) and carry 3 in my pocket. My gun shoots the bullseye out at 100yards not sure beyond that because I havent shot it any greater distance. Normally one shot I either miss and hes gone or I get him if I shoot 3 times and the deer still stands there I punt. lol

Listen, buddy I rezent the anti remark. Obviously you missed my point that 1.5 year olds are immature.... the bottom line is 1.5 year olds should be protected period. If you and your hunt club dont agree than thats fine shoot em up. resent all you want...you were the one that made a comparison to humans. and that IS an Anti ploy. I am not saying you are anti...just that the argument you put forth is an emotional one and an argument used by anti's. You also stated as fact that DEC does not view 1.5's as mature. That is incorrect. what box is checked and recorded for DEC when an 1.5 is taken?...fawn or adult? and their recording for management purposes is based on that designation. Hunter....take a look at the survey posted in the other thread...you were the one claiming this overall support for AR's...seems like the conclusions on that survey don't suppport teh view you put forth. One good thing...looks like they are entertaining the idea of a statewide survey of all license holders and I would bet money on the results of that one. Same arguments are put forth by both anti's and non antis. I never said I support AR"s I do support QDM and I think AR is better than nothing. Oh yes the survey my friend Im glad you brought that up you mean the one that was sent out to 4700 hunters with only over 2000 returned. That has to be the most inacurate (and waste of money) survey ever released. I hope you are right and it does go out to the over 150,000 licence buyers the outcome will be drastically different. SQ---didin't intend the survey comment for you...was refering to The Hunter...he has been claiming wide ranging support from a survey with the same type of quantities. My point in the earlier posts was they are inaccurate and should be a much larger cross section is not state waide to license holders You are 100% correct!

Listen, buddy I rezent the anti remark. Obviously you missed my point that 1.5 year olds are immature.... the bottom line is 1.5 year olds should be protected period. If you and your hunt club dont agree than thats fine shoot em up. resent all you want...you were the one that made a comparison to humans. and that IS an Anti ploy. I am not saying you are anti...just that the argument you put forth is an emotional one and an argument used by anti's. You also stated as fact that DEC does not view 1.5's as mature. That is incorrect. what box is checked and recorded for DEC when an 1.5 is taken?...fawn or adult? and their recording for management purposes is based on that designation. Hunter....take a look at the survey posted in the other thread...you were the one claiming this overall support for AR's...seems like the conclusions on that survey don't suppport teh view you put forth. One good thing...looks like they are entertaining the idea of a statewide survey of all license holders and I would bet money on the results of that one. Same arguments are put forth by both anti's and non antis. I never said I support AR"s I do support QDM and I think AR is better than nothing. Oh yes the survey my friend Im glad you brought that up you mean the one that was sent out to 4700 hunters with only over 2000 returned. That has to be the most inacurate (and waste of money) survey ever released. I hope you are right and it does go out to the over 150,000 licence buyers the outcome will be drastically different.

Seems a little like apples and oranges to me. They both would be regulations (which you obviously aren't too keen on following) but one is safety and one is a managment strategy. Your view that orange would not make a difference ...can you clarify...not make a difference in being seen by a hunter...seen by a deer? A regulation is a regualtion you can break it down any way you want safety, management etc. Maybe if I was hunting public land or in a hunt club I would wear orange but the bottom line orange or no orange its the hunters responsibility to know exactly what they are shooting at most accidents are caused by shooting at movement and orange is NOT a guarantee that would have been prevented. I believe BO is more visible. and I agree with Steve, a fraction increase in safety is a good thing. I am NOT for more regulations but saying if it were passed you would not follow it is irresponsible. I wear it and I actually take the vest off once on stand and put it around the tree I am in. I also wear a BO hat at all times during gun. That orange movement is an eye catcher. My concern about those not wearing Bo is this, and this has been stated previously, you could have PERFET target identification.....have a good back stop and at 100 yards you would not pick up a camo'd hunter sitting in cover...in the background. unless you are in a treestand shooting at close range the 100% guaranteed safe shot is a myth. BO increases the likelyhood of seeing that person opposed to camo. Its not irresponsible i dont live my life in fear of being shot or whether or not I might make it crossing the road. I highly doubt you follow every rule and regulation put in place by our lawmakers.... Hey this thread is -do you wear orange why or why not. Its to debate my use or non-use. And there is no evidence that proves 100yards down the trail you would be able to pick up the orange or not.

That was my point they are immature....

Listen, buddy I rezent the anti remark. Obviously you missed my point that 1.5 year olds are immature.... the bottom line is 1.5 year olds should be protected period. If you and your hunt club dont agree than thats fine shoot em up.

Seems a little like apples and oranges to me. They both would be regulations (which you obviously aren't too keen on following) but one is safety and one is a managment strategy. Your view that orange would not make a difference ...can you clarify...not make a difference in being seen by a hunter...seen by a deer? A regulation is a regualtion you can break it down any way you want safety, management etc. Maybe if I was hunting public land or in a hunt club I would wear orange but the bottom line orange or no orange its the hunters responsibility to know exactly what they are shooting at most accidents are caused by shooting at movement and orange is NOT a guarantee that would have been prevented.

I hunt private property so I do NOT wear orange. I use to wear orange years ago when we drove deer but we havent done that in more than 10 years. We mainly treestand hunt and I dont think orange would make a bit of difference. I wouldnt wear orange even if it was mandated. I love how many individuals are confused as to why NY doesnt have a mandatory orange law but when it comes to buck restrictions they feel their rights are being violated....Strange!

I think it is easy to pass on 1.5 year old bucks. I have fun watching them and I think once you pass on one and watch it for a while you will have a new appreciation for just how imature they are. I always love it when someone says that DEC biologist look at 1.5 year olds as adult deer in the heard its just not the case yes, they can mate but so do 15 year old humans.

As far as once a spike always a spike - studies have proven that a spike left to get some age on him can become a big buck. Spikes are normally fawns born later than others. I am not a huge fan of antler restrictions but its better than nothing. The reason I say that is this: I hunt 2 counties, Allegany and Ontario. The 1.5 year olds in Allegany county are typically small spikes, four points, and small sixes so antler restrictions would be of some benefit there. In Ontario county the 1.5 year olds are typically big sixes,sevens, eights, and even some 10. These bucks are quite impressive and even weigh up to 150lbs so antler restrictions would not be a benefit there. My opinion a one buck per person would be of more benefit in all areas.

Kudos to you genesee_mohican!!!!

I dont want to sound like a jerk but why would someone buy a tag that they didn't atleast hope to fill? I got my mL and bow tags my regular season buck and my two dmp's. I don't want to sound greedy either but I would fill all 5 if the oppurtunity presented itself. None of the meat would go to waste and would easilly be gone (atleast for my family) befoe the next deer season. Anyways what I'm trying to say is if I only wanted two deer or three deer I wouldn't buy every tag that I could. I never said that I don't intend on filling my buck tag I said I will not fill it with a 1.5 year old buck and I do buy less tags than you do. I think that it is great that you and your family would eat every deer that you could legally kill but that is a minority of individuals. Keep killing 5 deer every year and you will be the first to complain that the numbers are way down. Our DEC doesnt have a clue as to the real numbers out in the field its our responsibility has huners to regulate that. If everyone shot their quota of tags we would be in some big trouble.

I havent filled a buck tag in 5years (not from a lack of opportunities) but I have filled a doe tag every year. I refuse to shoot the easiest and dumbest deer in the woods - a 1.5 year old buck. I dont think anyone should feel obligated to fill all their tags because "thats what we pay for". Remember one of the down falls of hunting in NYState is the liberal amount of tags distributed. For me its a mature buck(which eats just as good as any other deer) or a doe. The sad part is, I dont see many bucks over 2.5 because of the other down side in hunting NY - the bucks are usaully shot at 1.5. I say shoot what you and your family eats but dont feel obligated to fill every tag purchased.