shockwaves dont expand well used them once on a doe although she died a quick death there was no expansion. in my t/c black diamond i use a Hornaday 240 gr xtp with mag sabot, 90 gr 777 great expansion. The CVA gets loaded with blackhorn and a harvester which does its job. Just a reminder blackhorn isnt to be used in a open breech muzzleloader like a black diamond. A crushed rib sabot has thinner petals to be used on tighter barrels. Good luck and safe hunting!