SPIKER

My brush didn't paint this... What the hell are you talking about now? You said bowhunters dont want crossbows or something along those lines. Maybe you dont understand what painting with a broad brush means. Oh, and I know about the TAC15, its still a crossbow. Once you take the barrel, bullet and gunpowder out of the equation, its no longer a gun. You would do well to learn from Culvercreek on how to have a discussion without constantly showing your illiteracy...and I do mean that figuratively as well..lol...you need to read some books. See, you finally goaded me into sinking to your level....yet...somehow I'm not surprised.

It appears PSE has taken themselves out of the game here by .25 of an inch...interesting.

This where we agree. My brush didn't paint this... More name calling will not dispute what you are about to see. Here is an AR lower, with a tactical scope. Here is the new PSE crossgun attachment...IT IS AN AR UPPER! And finally, the finished product. It uses the same trigger without any modification. So, in summation, can anyone here seriously say that this isn't half gun, half bow? It's an AR, with a bow on the end!...Hence the name X Bow? Or why not X Gun?... If I use "gun" as the primary indentifier, I'm a racist, elitest homophobe that hates hunting ala Gutfeld. If I use "bow" as the identifier, I am PC, and will be welcomed into the ranks of all those who wish to intrude upon the bowseason with a weapon that is clearly not "just" a bow. Separate season? All for it...as long as it cuts into the rifle season's time, not the early archery season. Disabled...all for it! For those that haven't seen this "Assault Weapon"...their words, not mine, so back off...here's a little video....400+ fps....not your grandpappie's X Gun.

You really don't understand the concept of "debate". For you, any deviation from your thought process is met with name calling, and dismissal. So, why can't it be called a X gun..after all it is a cross between a gun, and a bow, even though that wasn't the intended definition by the originators of the weapon. After all it was invented before the gun...but it was not called a crossbow. It was called things like ballista, winlass, and other names that described the mechanical function of the weapon. It might have been the Chinese who actually invented the shoulder mounted stock/trigger assembly that led to the modern versions. Before, the holding portion was more of a plank, or piece of wood that allowed the shooter to hold the weapon with one hand. Funny, the Chinese invented gunpowder also...another fact tying the two weapons together, and making it in essence, a hybrid gun/bow. It's a shame to see people who would rather get personal, and demeaning rather than present their point, and hope to provide the person they are debating with an insight into their views in a friendlier manner. Its not called a crossgun because it is a bow mounted crosswise on a stick. It does not shoot bullets, it does not use gunpowder, there is no explosion or fire or spark. Its not a gun, its archery equipment, albeit a different form of it than a vertical bow. It shoots an arrow, powered by a string, held by a release system. If you lack the common sense to understand that it is not a gun because it shares more similarities to a bow, then that is your problem, and debating your ignorance is a waste of my time. You want to talk demeaning, how about you two (arrowslinger and yourself, just so there is no doubt who I am talking about) calling anyone that wants to use a crossbow lazy and ridiculous? You two guys are possibly the biggest flingers of personal insults in the whole discussion. Hey now, I think you had better find my post calling people lazy, and or ridiculous. In the beginning of these threads, I did tend to lash back a little because of the name calling aimed at me, as well as false accusations of being affiliated with the NYB. And if it is such a waste of your time, you should probably excuse yourself from the conversation, seeing that you cannot control your temper. After reviewing both of these threads just now, I see that it is you who are constantly name calling, and antogonizing anyone who doesn't agree with you. And, I'm sorry about the "yer" comment..lol

Come on now..but I do appreciate your capitalization of "bow" to answer my misuse of the word. ;D

Sounds like most organized entities..like I said, I will research it.

Steve..you are correct in your assessment that each item I mentioned has a motor, but the point was that difference makes it superior to it's unmotorized counterpart, even though they share many of the same features. Have you seen the self cocking xgun? That's just one step away from a moter driven cocking system...it utilizes CO2 as of today. Now, you inserted the guns have gunpowder, bows do not line. Ok...so that would make the x gun the lesser weapon to the gun, making it eligible for use in the rifle season according to the law in NYS. But, it does not qualify as a lesser weapon to the compound, or trad bow, making it currently ineligible. Xgun technology has not even begun..in 5 years they will be lighter, faster, smaller, longer range weapons that will rival even some firearms in killing ability. Have you seen the Spitfire 175gr? It's just the start. And yes, I did answer the NYB question. Thanks for alerting me to their presence, I will be researching them to possibly join.

If you are addressing me, I'm not a member. As a matter of fact, I didn't know who you were talking about until I just googled them..I'm not ashamed to say I did learn something from you today. I love line three on their "why should you join NYB page". 3. NYB gets youth involved with SPIKES membership, youth camps, shoots, youth hunts, as well as Bowhunter Education and Certification. They have my name right in there..lol I'll have to study them throughly before I join an organization like that. But thanks for the heads up.

So, should Motorcycles be allowed to compete in the Tour De France race, since both have two wheels, a seat, handlebars, and carry a rider. Jet skis must then certainly be allowed to participate equally with canoes, since they both have a hull, seats, and are both a watercraft that carry people. Chainsaws ought to be allowed to participate in lumberjack competitions against buck-saws since both...Have a handle, and a blade with teeth that are used for cutting wood. I'm not an NYB member, just a bowhunter with common sense. And for the record, in case it was missed in my earlier posts..I'm all for the handicapped being able to use one if they cannot physically draw a bow.

You really don't understand the concept of "debate". For you, any deviation from your thought process is met with name calling, and dismissal. So, why can't it be called a X gun..after all it is a cross between a gun, and a bow, even though that wasn't the intended definition by the originators of the weapon. After all it was invented before the gun...but it was not called a crossbow. It was called things like ballista, winlass, and other names that described the mechanical function of the weapon. It might have been the Chinese who actually invented the shoulder mounted stock/trigger assembly that led to the modern versions. Before, the holding portion was more of a plank, or piece of wood that allowed the shooter to hold the weapon with one hand. Funny, the Chinese invented gunpowder also...another fact tying the two weapons together, and making it in essence, a hybrid gun/bow. It's a shame to see people who would rather get personal, and demeaning rather than present their point, and hope to provide the person they are debating with an insight into their views in a friendlier manner.

Feel free.

I have to agree with this statement. It really does seem that the x gunners want to push their way into the bow season no matter who says what. And if you raise the flag of caution..your an elitist, a racist, what next? I'm going to laugh when I see the first guy, and I know I will, based on the questions asked on different threads on this very forum, and on the DEC site, afield with a x gun during the bow season because he just can't understand the rules.

Come on guys, now if you are against x guns, you are a Racist? This argument could go on until the end of time, but there remains one constant truth. An x gun is not a bow..and even if you want to argue about the projectile, or the delivery method it utilizes, when you do not have to stand up, and draw on a deer, IMHO...you are defeating the essence of bowhunting. We (bowhunters) take pride in not how far you can shoot an animal, but how close you can get to it without losing the battle to it's superior senses. Well, that might have been more than one truth after all..sue me.

Having the ability to hunt 3S is like being given the keys to the store. The deer are everywhere, all the time. Having said that, use a 100 gr Spitfire if you have the KE, and don't hunt the property line. A good double lung will take them down every time. And...x guns are still not allowed during the bow season, and especially not in designated bow only areas.

So, what you are saying is that you are not aware of who the DEC is, and the fact that they are the ones who designate which weapons are allowed in which season? I just follow the rules, not make them...although lobbying helps. I've sat through more collective meetings with Encon to know that if left to our own devices, there would be no rules. The suggestions I have heard would destroy any person's faith in hunting. The reason you do not understand is because you are not listening, or willing, to have a constructive discussion. And this is commom of the rhetoric of the x gun pusher.

No, because the DEC says so.

You should be ashamed of yourself......really. And yet I'm not.. so that's your agument? that I should be ashamed of myself??..lol.. you're killin' me here... and I'm suppose to take you seriously? Ok, so you are not ashamed that your analogy....isn't even an analogy? You mention the special Mz/Bow season..then state that rifles are allowed during the rifle season...the obvious.. Then somehow you summarize your presentation with "as x bow should be to regular bowseason". LOL...the dissconnect is strikingly apparent...wow.

they do share a common season.. just not the special season... crossbows need not be added the the special bow season at the end of the year, just the regular bow season Shameless spin. For those spectating, let's be clear. Rifles are not allowed in MZ season. Equivalently, crossbows should not be allowed in bowseason. And that's exactly it. But, the main point of any x gun argument revolves aroung the premise that a x gun IS a bow, which it's not.

Please share this knowledge and experience with us. NP...and we are all NYers, so the next guy that says "yer" needs to go back and get an education before participating in this discussion. Ok, I have polled many archery sites with a simple question..."If you could use any weapon of your choosing throughout the whole "deer season", which would it be"? You would be surprised that even on hard core archery sites, rifle makes a good showing, while muzzleloader, slug gun, and lastly the x gun fare poorly. Why? Because this is all about gaining a percieved advantage in a season that allows a lesser weapon. X guns would be accepted without any controversy if their users weren't intent upon taking over a season not designated to them, namely the bow season, of which they are not included.

you might wanna change yer name from "arrow flinger" to "Turd Slinger". ??? Wow, and you expect yourself to be taken seriously? X guns in the archery season is one of the most devisive attepts yet made upon archers, and hunters alike, and a more civilized approach is needed if we are going to come to any understanding of why it is so. As a NYer, I will argue it untill the end, because my beliefs are held in experience, and a true knowledge of why they should be excluded from the regular archery season.

Yeah, let's just let everybody decide which weapon to use during any season...lol That' why we have to abide by the NY regs as designated by the DEC. If it were my call, I would say use whatever weapon you choose, and just call it deer season..that would put all this nonsense to rest. Heck, why even have a season...take a deer whenever you want..is anybody getting the drift here? hey Spiker, come back when you grow some horns and gain some usable knowledge ??? Now there's a knowledgable exchange. Not that I would expect a better argument from an x gun pusher. And, I do advocate them for the disabled.

Yeah, let's just let everybody decide which weapon to use during any season...lol That' why we have to abide by the NY regs as designated by the DEC. If it were my call, I would say use whatever weapon you choose, and just call it deer season..that would put all this nonsense to rest. Heck, why even have a season...take a deer whenever you want..is anybody getting the drift here?

Well, then you are mistaken, and prepare for battle in the congress. We have a well organized group that is willing to spend money, and to oppose any cross gun legislation. The line has been drawn in the sand...an x gun is not a bow, and therefore should only be allowed in the rifle season. The fact that it will be allowed in the Muzzleloader season is null...muzzleloaders allready ruined the late archery season here in NY.

Hi, it's a shame that the cross gun has pitted us against each other, but the fact is..it has. Bowhunters do not want them in the archery season..and that is that. Have fun with them in the rifle season, and the late Muzzleloader season..but if you can't learn how to tune, and shoot a bow, wait for a season that suits you better.

Now, that's sarcasm at it's best.