Carpenter

Well, the problem with this country is that it's too much of a credit society. Government, corporations, people, will buy things on credit and sooner or later they don't have the money to pay for it. They think they will be able to pay for it all, but then discover they can't. If everyone only used cash, I would bet that the vast majority would not put themselves in the holes that they do. I don't know for sure, but I would bet that China is way more of a cash society than we are, thus they are prospering. Show me the cash, and you will get the goods is probably the way they do business over there, unlike I will give you the goods and you can pay me in 4 months to a year like we do here. I started paying cash for everything about two years ago and haven't looked back. No credit card debt and no car payments. Sometimes I have to wait a little longer to buy something I want, but when I do finally buy the item I generally get a good deal when the person on the other end sees cash instead of a card. I did that with a $1,500 bedroom set and when they saw cash they gave me $150 off the top and free delivery. It's their company policy to give deals to cash customers. Too bad most people want instant gratification.

Gun control has worked wonders in Detroit and DC. Nobody ever gets shot there because guns are illegal. You know, they should just make murder or attempted murder illegal! At least nobody gets shot on school campuses, college campuses, or any other gun-free (aka - unarmed potential victim filled) zones, that are the creation of the gun control agenda. They still haven't found a way to get a savage, hell-bent on killing as many people as possible, to stop at the boundary of a gun-free zone. I think all they do is make the bad guy smile, knowing he's walking up to a barrel of fish. We've got a sign at our reception desk saying that nobody is allowed to bring a gun into the office. I can't tell you how many blood thirsty murderers have hung their head, sighed, turned around, and left thanks to that bad boy.

What you said doesn't prove them wrong. It was just a, "Yeah... well look at what the other guy did!!" Well that and tossing out insults, which added a significant amount of maturity. That tactic is just as predictable, so perhaps if they were whitetail bucks, and you were a whitetail buck, you might find yourselves riding in a truck bed together. But yes, Bush did send our brave men and women to war because he was informed Iraq had WMD's. Congress voted on it and they all agreed it's what should have been done. Congress did not, however, get to vote on us being in Libya or Yemen. But I don't think the thread was about Bush. I think it was our government letting guns cross the border and lying about vital statistics (saying 90% of the guns used by cartels came from America, when they knew the humber was no higher than 18%). The gun that killed our border patrol agent, who was armed with beanbag rounds, was NOT one of the FAF guns, although two FAF guns were found on-site. The only reason why I think Obama knew about it is because it involved an international border, and if he got a call from the Mexican president he would have needed to know what to say. "Oh, my government is letting illegal guns cross the border... I had no idea" wouldn't have worked. But I could be wrong. Holder definitely knew.

Cruised through the contestants in the Hunting Success Story poll and think this one in particular is good - http://huntingny.com/forums/index.php/topic,2585.0.html The 5th poster down from the top seemed to appreciate that spike horn too

Haha, I just read what I posted and feel I need to admit that sometimes I get a little carried away.

Who makes up NY? To say it's a good thing for the hunting community regardless of what the hunting community wants is a very "I know what's better for you than you do" elitist attitude. "I'll make you do things the way I do, and in the end you'll thank me for it." By that standard we should tell everyone in NY to buy a 4x4 vehicle for the winter so we don't have to get stuck behind 1,000 lb compact cars with the traction of cross country skis. Sure they won't want to do it, but I drive a 4x4 vehicle, love the benefits, and once I force everyone else to do it they'll eventually realize that I was right. I know that's an apples to oranges comparison in one respect, but the premise is the same. Both take away or limit personal choice, and replace it with a legislative alternative in hopes that people will be ok with it after they see the other side. There's no situation where I would agree with that approach, especially for something like deer age structure, which doesn't have a very big impact on our livelihood. I also think that if you approached someone standing above their dead yearling spike horn and told him/her that the deer they shot would have been bigger the next year, they would already know it. Nobody out there shooting small bucks is unable to comprehend that young bucks become older bucks if they don't put vent-holes in their lungs. People make the choice to perform at their best, skim by in a life of mediocrity, or meet somewhere in the middle. I've been surrounded by yahoos shooting countless rounds at running deer, spike horns, button bucks, anything brown, but have still been able to see and harvest mature bucks. I say - let them choose their own path, and I'll choose mine. Now I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind, and mine won't ever stray from the mindset that each individual, in their own situation, facing their own unique circumstances, is best qualified to make their own decisions. If they establish antler restrictions anticipate more normally law-abiding citizens (including children) being regarded as law-breakers for meat-hunting. Sorry Little Johnny, we can't put a picture of your first buck on the internet because you technically shot it illegally. Yes, that makes you a bad person in the eyes of the NYSDEC, but hey you're still alright in my book.

"All that is true and would be fine... unless the AR is designed to increase the age structure of bucks... which IMO is a sound management policy..." It's absolutely a sound management policy - for people who want to shoot mature bucks. I'm one of those people too, but I respect other's right to harvest whatever deer they want within the confines of the laws as they stand. If we all fit into a cookie-cutter mold it would be easier to set standards like that, but we don't. Some people are busy and can only hunt a couple times per year, some are kids who would be thrilled with a spike horn, some are farmers who just want to shoot the deer eating their crops, etc. I think our efforts would be better spent leading by example, and teaching others about the benefits of QDM. If I manage my property well and other hunters see what I have hanging in my garage they'd be more inclined to pass on a younger buck. The same goes for hunters next to QDM land who see or harvest a mature buck. What's that saying - "One you go mature rack, you never go back?" I don't know, it's something like that. QDM is a growing trend, not a shrinking one. I think we're doing a pretty good job of restricting ourselves by our own personal situations.

They already are told what they can and can't shoot!!! Dates Times Weapons and on and on and on Yes, but unlike that list, this would require the legislation of standards.

My own standards are much higher than what the DEC would establish, and I wish more people would practice QDM, but who am I to tell someone that the buck in their sights doesn't have enough non-edible bone on its skull? If that's not what they're after I'd understand them if their response was, "Yeah, so? And hey, why are you in my treestand with me anyway?" If you shoot a young buck or an old buck you still get venison. The difference is that one might be worthy of getting put on the wall and one isn't. Those who don't care about shooting wall hangers shouldn't listen to anyone telling them that they can't shoot a buck if it doesn't fit _____ criteria. If it's made of meat and you want to shoot it, fire away my friend. Personally I'll wait for his great grand-dad, but that's a personal choice I made all by my adult freedom-loving self.

I'll decide what size buck I want to shoot. There are enough rules already.

DEC - Thank you in advance for reducing license costs next year since you clearly have a surplus of our money. I appreciate that you are doing that, to help out the people who support you, instead of spending it just because you have it, likely on programs which would only restrict us further in our sportsman endeavors. Remember, government programs, regulations, etc never give you more freedom, they only take it away. Regards, Carpenter _____________________________ Am I being a little too optimistic? Now that we know how much of a surplus they've got that money will be gone faster than you can blink. If I get stopped by a DEC officer driving a Lexus GX with a light bar on top I'm going to be mildly upset. I love the DEC and what they've done in NY and across the country to establish prosperous wildlife populations and to prosecute law-breakers, but come on now, that's a hefty surplus. How about you help out the people who gave it to you by scaling back the fees from here on out?

I agree with that. I've always thought that ethical vs unethical was a decision that could only be made by each individual person. I can't tell you what's ethical or not just the same as you couldn't tell me what's ethical or not. My neighbor thinks hunting is unethical, whereas I think it's incredibly ethical. If I had to live by a moral code set by people other than myself I'd have to commit to hers just as I would everyone else's. If I'm told I'm being unethical I have to ask, "By who's standard?"

It would actually do the hunting world good if NO one ever heard of him! LOL He's one of the biggest promoters in the country of the hunting sports and outdoor lifestyle. If you don't like him that's one thing, but to imply he's bad for the sport is another. What exactly has he done to hurt the hunting world in comparison to what he's done to promote it in as positive of a light as he can?