tughillmcd
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Posts posted by tughillmcd
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17 minutes ago, grampy said:
If this is true, I hope you are shooting a traditional bow. "how can I get the benefits of archery season with the least amount of dedication and work" As the dedication and work to shoot a compound is nothing, compared to trad bows.
35 minutes ago, Buck_shooter said:There are exceptions to everything but I see most of this as nothing more than entitlement. Kind of like "how can I get the benefits of archery season with the least amount of dedication and work?" I think archery season is something that should be worked for and earned, not just given to everyone who thinks they should be involved. If it's truly not that different from modern archery, why not just shoot a vertical bow? And before I get the arguments about being physically unable, I said there are exceptions and I do believe everyone should have the "opportunity" to enjoy all seasons. But able bodied individuals who chose not to put forth the effort for whatever reason should not be entitled to be involved.
And I hope he doesn't hunt from a tree stand, use cover scents, camo clothing, deer lure, game camera etc. You need to learn to read the woods, scout with your eyes, and understand the wind. In 1956 when the first NY bow season was created, this is how the tradition was born. No carbon fiber arrows. and most people had to learn to make their own arrows, and fletch them. There is nothing left today that even resembles the origins of the sport.
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1 minute ago, growalot said:
Hey NYS DEC I'm sitting here in 8N
FYI, This is not the DEC's doing. DEC support's full inclusion crossbow as stated in their last Deer Management study. The laws need to be changed to allow DEC to put into effect any expansion of crossbow use.
Just Sayin! -
13 minutes ago, Doc said:
We have seen youth rifle seasons arbitrarily slammed into bow season.
Gonna Throw the BS Flag on that one. The Youth Season was implemented at the same time the Bow Opener was moved from October 15 to October 1. It was not arbitrarily slammed into bow season.
I will NEVER throw kids under the bus for my own benefit. If I had to choose, I would say move bow back to the day after Columbus Day before I would ever say KIDS DON'T COME FIRST. They are the future of hunting, which if you haven't noticed, is diminishing in this country.-
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13 minutes ago, Belo said:
a troll is someone who pushes peoples buttons for no reasons other than to get a reaction. that's not the case here.
i dont visit sections, i scroll the unread feed. you asked a question and you got answers. why you didn't post a poll i don't know. seems maybe you didn't get the response you wanted though.
NO, far from that. I am not interested in a poll, I am interested in trying to get those that want Crossbows Full inclusion to engage, join us and help see this to the end.
I have to laugh, because this whole thing reminds me for the Rolling Stones song Satisfaction. Just change the words a little.
"He Can't Be a Man because HE does not Shoot the Same Bow as ME-
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24 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:
Its funny though, the anti-crossbow crowd just cant help themselves, and visit the crossbow forum constantly just to piss and moan.
Maybe we should follow their lead and just become trolls in the bow forum and blow it up over there! Oh wait a minute. I'm a bow hunter too as are the majority of people that are working for full inclusion.
The difference between us and theAnti-Huntersoops Anti-Crossbow Hunters is we believe all hunters should be a brotherhood and that we should work to get as many people involved in hunting as we can to pass on our traditions and to preserve the sport.
Most people do not know the history of bow hunting in NY, how it was created, and the pushback to even create a separate archery season. People need to get a grip and understand everyone is different. Even within the vertical bow community, there are people that only tradition hunt and don't believe compound bows belong in bow season. There are compound shooters that hunt instinctive and no release.
Hunting is not about implements, it is about the hunt. If everyone hunted with the same implement in bow and gun seasons, there would only be the need 1 bow and one gun, 1 release, 1 sight, 1 scope etc.
Go back to 1940 when long bows were first permitted to hunt with in NY. It took until 1956 to get a special bow season, and that was for only 1 week. There were no tree stands, no sent lock, no trail cams, no compounds, no space age materials used.
The original bow season was controversial because those opposed to it said there will be thousands of wounded deer running around with arrows in them. These people will ruin the woods before we get to go out. Pretty much the same arguments we hear today. No different when compounds were introduced, then sights and releases were fought against. Yet, most of those that fight against crossbows, whether they use a compound bow or traditional bow at least condone the use of compound bows with their 90% let off, sights, releases. Equipment whose technology and ease of use far exceeds the bow hunters of that first bow season back in 1956. Even the traditional shooter uses technology that didn't exist back then, tree stands, cover scents, deer lure's, trail cams.
The world does not stand still. The Hunting community is one the largest segments of the State and Country when it comes to how much money is spent pursuing our sport. Can you imagine how much could be accomplished for the good of the sports if everyone could put aside their petty differences, agree to disagree with how you hunt vs how I hunt, and work together for all of hunting?
With PETA and HSUS nipping at our heals, it is sad, for they are sitting back waiting for us to bloody each other and drive more from the sport, and once people get tired, they will ramp up the pressure and shut us down.
Are crossbows the same as compounds? NO.
Are Compounds the same as Recurve Bows? NO
Do any of them shoot a bullet? NO
Crossbows are not the biggest threat to our hunting traditions, it is hunters themselves, fighting each other, rather than accepting each other for their desire to be in the woods, doing what each of us love to do. Arrows belong in bow seasons, bullets belong in gun seasons. PERIOD! Let's get over it and move on!-
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17 minutes ago, chas0218 said:
fastest bow on the market 340 fastest crossbow 440.
Fasted compound is the PSE Full Throttle at 370 fps and the fastest crossbow is the Scorpyd at 450 fps.
How many people shoot the fastest compound? The average compound is shooting around 325- 340 while the average crossbow is shooting around 350.
Not that far off. If you want to compare speed as the litmus test, then compare your fastest compound to a longbow or recurve. Or better yet, compare the average traditional to the average compound.-
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52 minutes ago, Core said:
Most of the arguments supporting full inclusion could also be used to support, say, muzzleloading starting Oct 1 as well. Be careful what you wish for.
Arguments like "it propels an arrow utilizing the energy from bent limbs and strings at similar velocities as vertical bows?
Yep, that sure sounds like a muzzleloader to me!-
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NYCC ended 2017 membership at 867 when we started accepting the 2018 memberships in August.
Since August we have added 75 new new members.
1) Do you support Full Inclusion of Crossbows into the NY Bow Season?
2) Do you want to see the arbitrary restrictions on Draw Weight and Limb Width removed?
3) Do you believe crossbows should be permitted to be used by everyone in all Archery Only areas?
4) Do you believe we should be using the Bow Privilege instead of the Muzzleloader Privilege?
5) Are you a current 2018 NYCC Member?If you answered yes to questions 1-4, and no to being a 2018 Member, What are you waiting for?
NYCC is actively pursuing Legislation to change the laws in Albany to allow the DEC to set all seasons and conditions to use crossbows in NY. WE can not do this alone.
Join NYCC by November 1st and you are not only putting your voice behind our efforts, but you will be entered in a "Member Only Raffle" for a Excalibur GRZ2 Crossbow or a PSE Fang Crossbow package, winners choice.
Your $20 membership is an investment in the future of Crossbow Hunting in NY
Can we count on YOU! Join or Renew TODAY!
http://nycrossbowcoalition.com/membership-
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PSE is asking customers to immediately stop the use of their 2017 Fang XT, Fang LT or Thrive crossbows, and to contact PSE for information regarding the return and repair of these items.
For fastest service, PSE is advising customers to visit www.fangthrive2017recall.com and fill out the Return Authorization Form found on that page. -
NYCC is looking for volunteers to help at a few Fall Events.
Read our Latest Newsletter
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On 6/25/2017 at 3:56 AM, Doc said:
So, is that it??? Is Crossbow full inclusion in archery season officially dead for another year?
Sorry Doc, I missed your post.
The bills are now in limbo and will be reintroduced in January 2018 when the legislature goes into session.Thus the answer to your question is, there is no change to the crossbow regulations for this fall.
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Legislative Session Ended June 21st
The Legislative Session Ended Wednesday June 21st. Unfortunately S1386A did not receive a Senate Floor Vote and A479A stalled in Committee.
There was no change in the crossbow language this year, however we did make progress and the 2 bills will return in 2018.
Every year since crossbow hunting became legal in 2014 there has been crossbow expansion bills introduced, but none of them received any action in their respective committees until this past session when S1386A was placed on the Senate Encon Committee Agenda and was passed out of committee. Although there was no full Senate vote, having it placed on the committee agenda and moving it out of committee is significant movement. A479A did not make it onto the Assembly Encon Committee Agenda, it saw an increase in Assembly Majority Co-Sponsors which is crucial for any movement in the Assembly.
In 2017 we submitted more than 2500 of YOUR letters to legislators in support of crossbow full inclusion bills S1386A & A479A. These letters were significant in moving S1386A out of the committee and in adding Assembly Majority Co-Sponsors. Additionally over 2000 letters were delivered to the Governor's office asking for support of full inclusion crossbow use.
NYCC remains committed to pursuing these 2 bills in the 2018 legislative session.
In preparation for the 2018 Legislative session, we will continue to collect support letters, which can be accessed from our web page.
NYCC continued to grow in 2017, but we need to continue to grow and get our message out.
Thank you for your continued support for the New York Crossbow Coalition
Together WE Will Succeed!
NYCC Newsletter -
1 minute ago, growalot said:
All said and done what is the earliest you'd know. Any time?
The session is scheduled to end on Wednesday June 21st. if it does not happen by then, it is done for this year. So anytime between next Monday and the 21st.
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2 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:
problem exists that it's not making nearly as much movement in the assembly for it to completely pass as law. don't know how that works going into next years session even if it passes in the senate. rick, do they both start from square one?
First, we need to address each chamber separately, but if this does not pass in both the Assembly and Senate by June 21st it will be dead for this year. There are 2 legislative session in a legislative cycle. The legislative cycle runs for 2 years which is bracketed by the election years.
If these bills do not make it this year, they are already on the books for next January. Both would need to pass again next year but the momentum of having it passed in the Senate will go along way next spring in getting it passed there again.
If it does not pass in both chambers in 2018, the bills die and have to be totally reintroduced and start from scratch in 2019.We need everyone to engage and get this through the Senate in it's present from without being amended. If it gets amended this year, that is what we start with next year. It may be an uphill c limb, but if everyone gets involved, we can make it happen.
I hope this makes sense.
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4 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:
Yes. Just trying to keep your thread on track, as many people are interested in progress of the bill.
4 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:Really? Just screwing with me to see if I react to it? Well, I guess youre about to find out.
Thank you!
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1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:
Ok, so Ive already said in this thread that crossbow debate doesnt belong in this thread, its for discussion about the progress of the bill. This is the final warning, the next person to do so will get a timeout from the site.
Does this go for everyone?
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The bill needs more support in the senate side. Everyone needs to call their senator and ask for their support. Additionally, people need to call the Senate Majority Leader Flanagan and ask he support this bill.
Senate Majority Leader Flannagan
Albany 518-455-2071 District 631-361-2154 -
4 minutes ago, Belo said:
me thinks you don't understand how special interest groups operate.
Please explain to everyone how special interest groups operate
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28 minutes ago, Core said:
I already mentioned the consequences and the post prior to yours between ours alluded to them as well: " By that time, the antlerless deer have gone mostly nocturnal after detecting the early archery hunting pressure."
Ohio has allowed crossbows during their entire bow season for 40 years. Their guns season is only 7 days plus a 3 day muzzleloader season. Their harvest rates for 2016 was
Archery 40,705 Antlered and 42,616 Antlerless
All Harvests 75,626 Antlered and 106,543 Antlerless
That means they had 34,921 Antlered and 63,927 Antlerless with only 10 days of gun and Muzzleloader combined.
BTW, The Ohio Bow season runs from September 24th through February 5th. Ohio only allows 1 buck per hunter per season, and the gun hunters do pretty good for having the woods full of not only bow hunters, but crossbow hunters for a couple months prior to their very short gun season.Data does not support you conjecture
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The Senate EnCon Committee passed S1386 Crossbow Bill out of committee this morning. We do not have the committee vote count at this time.
The next step is to have it placed on the Senate Calendar for a floor vote.
Once we have the vote count and a date for the Senate floor vote I will post another update
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1 hour ago, Larry said:
It passed the senate last year but it has to get though both houses
A crossbow full inclusion bill passed the Senate in 2013 with no action in the Assembly. In 2014 the crossbow language was included in the executive and senate budgets resulting in the compromise we have today. There were bills introduced in 2015 and 2016 but there was no committee action in either the Senate or Assembly in those 2 years. This is the the first committee action since the budget of 2014.
We still have to get action in the assembly, but this is a necessary step and is a great step forward.-
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Crossbow Bill S1386 is on the Senate Environmental Conservation Committee Meeting AgendaThe Senate Environmental Conservation Committee will be taking up the Gallivan Crossbow Bill on Tuesday May 9 at 10 am.
This is a major step to crossbow full inclusion. We will update everyone on the outcome after the meeting.
Is your senator on the list below? If so please call or write their office and request they vote to report S1386 out of committee to a floor vote.
Senate EnCon Committee MembersJoseph Addabbo 518-455-2322 [email protected]Carl Marcellino 518-455-2390 [email protected]Elaine Phillips 518-455-3265 [email protected]Thomas O'Mara 518-455-2091 [email protected]Brad Hoylman 518-455-2451 [email protected]Elizabeth Little 518-455-2811 [email protected]Tony Avella 518-455-2210 [email protected]Rich Funke 518-455-2215 [email protected]George Latimer 518-455-2031 [email protected]Kenneth LaValle 518-455-3121 [email protected]Todd Kaminsky 518-455-3401 [email protected]James Tedisco 518-455-2181 [email protected]Robert Ortt 518-455-2024 [email protected]-
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Crossbow Language from the Senate Budget Proposal Part GGG Was Not Included in Final BudgetAlthough we are disappointed, the Legislative session is not over and Bills A479 and S1386 are still active.
Additionally, the Chairman of the Senate Environmental Conservation Committee has introduced a DEC Departmental Bill number S5301 which includes Full Inclusion Crossbow language. We are supportive of this bill if it makes it the floor for a full vote.
The Legislature is scheduled to be in recess until April24th and will back in their home districts. This is a perfect time to contact them in their local offices and request they support Senate Bill S1386 and A479 and become a cosponsor if they have not already done so. If possible, try and set up an in person meeting and talk to them about this. In person meetings show your commitment to the issue and oftentimes help gain their support.
I need to thank everyone for the 2,200 letters of support, and the phone calls to date. Although it may not to be apparent from the results of the budget, we have a more cosponsors on the bills because of everyone's efforts. Our combined efforts are being noticed. We have too much to lose to give up now.
Below is a list of current legislators signed onto the Crossbow Bills
A479 - Sponsor - Gunther
Cosponsors - Lupardo, Woerner, Brindisi, B. Miller, Raia, DiPietro, Kearns, Finch, McDonald, Morinello, Murray, Blankenbush, Butler
Multi-Sponsor McDonough, SchimmingerS1386 - Sponsor - GallivanCosponsors - Akshar, Bonacic, Griffo, Helming,Lanza, Little, Marchione, Ortt, Ritchie, Robach, Seward, ValeskyLegislator Lookup
Please, if your legislator is on the list, thank them for their support. If not, ask them to become a cosponsor.
If you have not submitted a support letter, please visit our web page and follow the link to submit one. Be sure to ask your family and friends to fill one out too. If you are unsure of who your legislators are or how to contact them, click the link to the NYS Board of elections and enter you address.
Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?
in CrossBow Hunting
Posted
Why leave the restrictions? A compound crossbow shooting 185 lb draw can achieve 455 fps where a recurve at 290 lbs is only 405 fps. What good does a 200 lb draw weight do in slowing crossbow superiority as you stated before it does?