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tughillmcd

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Posts posted by tughillmcd

    New York Crossbow Hunting Survey

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    have an excal hanging on my wall now thats at 175# doing 305 and though i love that xbow, i am waiting to buy another excal that can pull a bit more speed.

     

    course since i woosed out and got another compound xbow that was on the cheap side i may just wait a bit longer to buy. 

     

    ny laws suck balls i tell ya

    Vince1,

    Are you involved with helping us get the laws changed by calling your legislators and joining NYCC to grow our voice in Albany?

    Working together, we can effect change to these laws, separately, we will continue to struggle in the efforts for crossbow equality.

     

    Please help by joining NYCC. Your $20 membership is an investment in the future of crossbow hunting in NY!

    Online Application

    Printable Application

    • Like 1

    New York Crossbow Hunting Survey

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    I get it and truly believe the 200lb limit is BS because it eliminated a lot of what's currently out there.  i'd just hate for it to get to a point where the natural progression to seek more and more performance turns into who can have heaviest duty built-in truck winch and heavy limbs that won't break under hundreds of pounds of load kind of crossbow.  i'm for crossbows but you got to wonder where things are going.

    I understand your concern. I do believe that issue would be better served by having the DEC set the limits based on data, rather than having legislators create put it into law based on unsupported opinions and emotion, rather than true fact and data. DEC regulations can be amended when needed without having to go through all of the hoops that is required to change law, when the laws are shown to be flawed as is the case with the 200lb limit. 

    • Like 1

    New York Crossbow Hunting Survey

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    Only issue i have is Anyone with bow or gun certification should not have to retake a course to hunt with a crossbow!!! Plan and simple

    If a crossbow is classified as a bow, and you need to purchase a bow privilege to hunt with it you would need to have taken the bow class. The intent of these bills as written will not require you to retake the bow class if you took it in the past. If you have never taken a bow class in the past and or had a bow license in NY, you would have to take the class to purchase the bow license.

    • Like 6

    New York Crossbow Hunting Survey

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted · Edited by tughillmcd

    I took it, didn't see a reason for zip codes but it's all good. Great survey and to the point questions.

    Zip codes are there for legislators that want to see how many people may live in their districts when we publish the results

    New York Crossbow Hunting Survey

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted · Edited by tughillmcd

    i think the aided cocking devices and unlimited draw weight shouldn't co-exist.  crossbow companies will only push the limits of materials.  won't be much different than firing a gun in some cases.  i think the aid of a cocking device can exist with crossbows with limited draw weight.  otherwise you have to pony up and draw it yourself.

     

    definitely support it being a normal archery implement used by anyone in any season.  also it should be rolled into bowhunter course.  anyone who already has had a bowhunter privilege needs to retake course or do the certification we do now.

     

    The problem with the 200 lb weight limit is draw weight does not always have a direct relation to the power of the bow. A 290 lb Excalibur recurve crossbow shoots at 405 fps while a Scorpyd  VTEC with a 175 lb draw weight shoots at 440fps. As with compound bows, cam design does more for speed than draw weight alone, When referring to recurve crossbows or recurve vertical bows, draw weight is the major factor in speed.

    So the 200 lb draw weight limit does not have the effect of limiting the power of crossbows that you are concerned with, but instead, only eliminates the majority of recurve crossbows presently on the market. And those recurve crossbows are not any faster than the average compound crossbow, and all are slower that the fastest compound crossbows on the market today.

    • Like 2

    Crossbow "education"

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    I would think the best way to handle x-bow hunter safety training would be to include the mechanics of crossbow shooting into the existing bowhunter training classes, and require that course to hunt with a crossbow. That way they get familiar with the way broadheads work, where to aim for most effective killing with a broadhead, and other features of killing through hemorrhaging/cutting rather than impact killing. Much of the hunting procedures would apply, and the limitations could be taught.

     

    Doc,

     

    Crossbows should be included in the bow class. As you state, hunting with broadhead tipped arrows is totally different than hunting with bullets.

    The curriculum is already established to include crossbows in the bow hunting class, but it's implementation is hindered by the legislatures requiring the Muzzleloader privilege over the Bow privilege requirement for using them. Here is a link to the supplemental manual http://www.nbef.org/ecommerce/todays-crossbow-addendum-manual.html

    The way to correct this is to have the law changed to classify the crossbow as a legal bow and require the bow privilege instead of the mz privilege, thus requiring everyone to have taken the bow class to use a crossbow for big game outside the regular firearms season.

    NYCC is working to see this legislation introduced and passed asap. If this is not done soon, everyone that has used a crossbow will want to be grandfathered without having to take the class if this happens later. That would only serve to complicate the whole issue.

    • Like 1

    Crossbow "education"

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    Then throw down that crappy old crossbow and stay with modern rifles. The rifle is still the "most effective weapon available".

     

    You can't have it both ways. Those of us who take up the limitations of archery hunting do so with it in mind that we want the challenge of a limited weapon. That is the whole point to the "special" archery season. Bow season was initially established as a way of handicapping the hunter with a weapon that requires rigid technique and exceptional hunting skills that require the ability to operate in close proximity to the prey. Since the day of it's inception, people have been working diligently to destroy the intent behind the original season and slowly evolve it back toward some other version of "gun season". Almost all of that evolution has been done in the name of  using "the most effective weapon available". If you are serious about that statement, then you must believe that the introduction of bow season was a real bad idea whether you are using a longbow, recurve, compound or crossbow.

     

     

    Sorry Doc, but archery season was not carved out of gun season to "handicap" archers. In the 50's, bow hunters were handicapped as they were required to use their bows only when everyone around them was using guns. And back then the most common means of hunting was deer drives. Try and get a deer to come in, calm and relaxed while that is going on. Now if that was not being handicapped I don't know what is.

    Archery season is separate to allow for a different skill set of getting the animal in close, hopefully in an non-agitated state. For the crossbow hunter, that should be the same goal. Shots beyond 40 yards should be avoided. Yes, people do it, and can be successful, but the farther you shoot, the chances of wounding increases rapidly over clean kills.And its not just crossbow hunters, compound shooters do it too.  Some people are lucky, and all the practice does not mean things can't go wrong. We as hunters owe it to the animal to not take chances, and do everything we can to kill as quickly and humanly as possible.

    NYCC February Newsletter

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    http://nycrossbowcoalition.com/feb_news.htm

     

    Have you renewed your 2015 dues yet? Please take the time to renew or upgrade to a Full Member today.
     

    2014 Wrap-up

       At just 2 years old, NYCC and our members were influential in the passage of the first Crossbow Season in NY that not only allowed crossbows to be used during firearms seasons, but it included part of the Northern and Southern Zone archery only seasons. Although it did not meet our ultimate goal of having a crossbow classified as a bow in NY allowing it's use during all seasons and areas where other archery equipment is permitted. Additional restrictions are placed on crossbows that include requiring a Muzzleloader Privilege instead of an Archery Privilege during the Archery Season, a 200 lb draw weight limit, elimination of crossbows during the youth deer hunt Columbus Weekend the exemption of Suffolk and Westchester Counties and the Archery Only areas of Albany and Monroe counties.

       The 2014 hunting season was a success with no reported incidents. Numerous members reported having harvested deer with their crossbow.

       NYCC, partnered with the Salmon River Strutters NWTF Chapter Wheeling Sportsmen Program in hosting a disabled Veterans Crossbow/Archery hunt in Oswego County on November 1st. 5 Handicapped Veterans participated, with 2 successfully harvesting deer, including Fred, a 66 y/o Vietnam Vet who suffers from PTSD and the effects of Agent Orange.

     

    NYCC 2015 Priorities

       NYCC is continuing to pursue the expansion of Crossbow   acceptance. The first priority is to see the crossbow classification changed to require the use of an Archery Privilege. As we all know, archery hunting requires a different skill set than firearms hunting. This can not covered in the extent necessary in the Hunter Education Class. For Safety and to understand the differences, crossbow users should be required to take the Bowhunter Education class as are other archers.

       Second, we need to work to eliminate the 200lb max draw weight. This restriction stems from the misconception that draw weight equates directly to energy. If this was true, then a 290lb recurve crossbow would shoot faster than a 185lb compound crossbow, but that is not the case. The Excalibur Matrix 405 shoots a 350 grain arrow at 405 fps while the Barnett Ghost 410 shoots a 400 grain arrow at 410 fps. The Matrix has 105lb draw weight advantage yet shoots a 50 grain lighter arrow 5 fps slower. Part of this is due to the Ghost 410's  power stroke being 15.375" vs 13.89" for the recurve Matrix 405, along with the mechanical advantage provided by the cables and pulleys of the compound Ghost 410.

       Third, youth should not be prohibited from using a crossbow during the Youth Hunt when they are permitted to use firearms.

       Additionally, we need to enlist the help of those from Suffolk and Westchester counties to bring those areas up to par with the remainder of the state. This will require help for the hunters from these areas requesting that the discrimination of their areas be reversed, allowing them to utilize crossbows as is permitted in the remainder of the state.

     
    Where's NYCC

       March 5 - 8 NYCC will be at the World Fishing and Outdoor Expo at  Rockland County Community College and the WNY Sport and Travel Expo at the Erie County Fair Grounds Event Center. Stop by and say high.


      Online Membership  Application

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    NY Crossbow Questions and Answers Fact Sheet

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    Understanding NY crossbow law

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    Well pretty smart money move if you ask me.  Why make the masses take a test to use them?  Most would not go through a class to hunt with a xbow but if its just pay 20 bucks and head to the woods...Their all in.  Very smart money maker on their part.

     

    If im reading it right?

     

    The money had no bearing on the decision or discussion, it was simply a few people refusing to acknowledge a crossbow as archery equipment. The people that insisted on the muzz license didn't want anyone using crossbows at all so this was their way of holding onto their view that a crossbow is not a bow. If you are correct forcing the test would have been a better option to keep more people from using them, but it would have meant giving up on the "superior weapon" claim that has been thrown around for years.

    • Like 1

    Understanding NY crossbow law

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    The muzz tag is either sex.. as for no training required it states you need to complete an online course and have proof of completing it on you.... now the problem I see with that is enforcement....

     

    Same goes for enforcing the max 200 lb draw weight. Are the DEC officers going to carry a scale to test crossbows in the field?

    Understanding NY crossbow law

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted · Edited by tughillmcd

    So pretty much even the dec/govt believes the shoulder fired crossbow is more of a gun than a bow based on the license slot?

    Interesting.

     

    No, The DEC is not considering a crossbow more like a gun. This was set by the anti-crossbow people in albany who are misinformed and believe the hype that a crossbow is more like a gun. The DEC can not change the license necessary to use a crossbow, only enforce what was agreed to by the legislature.

     

    The biggest problem is many people that have never bow hunted will not get the full training in archery hunting such as shot placement, effective range of your equipment, tracking an animal, etc, that we cover in archery classes because what will be covered in the hunter ed class will be maybe 10 - 15 minutes due to time constraints. They still have to cover all of the rest of the items already in the class. Those that pushed for this because they are not going to ever agree that a crossbow is archery equipment did a major disservice to the game that will be hunted as people not have the understanding of archery hunting the bow class gives them.

    But the anti crossbow faction has never allowed facts to get in the way of their arguments.

     

    • Like 2

    Understanding NY crossbow law

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    I received the following information from the DEC Friday April 11th explaining the crossbow legislation. (see attachment)

    The DEC is preparing the regulation changes and they should have them ready for public comment in early May. The public comment will not include any meetings or open forums, but will allow for your input on the regulations by letter, or email.

    I am told the proposal will utilize all aspects of the crossbow language that was passed in the budget.The DEC is bound by the law and can not increase season lengths, lower the age for crossbow use, modify the crossbow restrictions of draw weight and size, open the entire bow season for seniors and handicapped hunters or any other provisions of the law. They do not make the laws, they implement them.
     
    Please note: You will not use an archery license to hunt big game during the early archery seasons, but will need a muzzleloader license to hunt with a crossbow. Although this seems foolish since a crossbow does not shoot a projectile propelled by gunpowder, instead it shoots an arrow by the same means as other bows, it is what was negotiated into the budget and it does permit us to hunt during the archery season.
     
    Hopefully this will help answer many of the questions people have. Once the regulations are set and the public comment period is open, we will be sure to let everyone know.
     
    Best Regards,
     
    Rick McDermott
    New York Crossbow Coalition

     

    Understanding NY crossbow law_April 11, 2014.pdf

    • Like 2

    Crossbow for beginner

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    personally I wouldn't purchase anything until I saw how the DEC implements it. It is likely that the regulations on what crossbow is legal to hunt with will be the same as before but I wouldn't want to drop a bunch of money on one and find out it doesn't meet their requirements.

    This is the language included in the budget. The DEC can set regulations up to these limits. I seriously doubt they would decrease from these parameters, but there is no guarantee. This is the same language as before. I attached the entire section of the budget that covers crossbows. Items struck through are removed from law and items underlined are additions.

     

    with a crossbow unless such crossbow shall consist of a bow and

    string, either compound or recurve, that launches a minimum fourteen

    inch bolt, not including point, mounted upon a stock with a trigger that

    holds the string and limbs under tension until released. The trigger

    unit of such crossbow must have a working safety. The minimum limb width

    of such crossbow shall be seventeen inches, have a minimum peak draw

    weight of one hundred pounds and a maximum peak draw weight of two

    hundred pounds. The minimum overall length of such crossbow from butts-

    tock to front of limbs shall be twenty-four inches.

    PART EE.pdf

    Great News

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    Sorry for the Crickets... full time career I try to fit in. 

     

    What do I think of that archer? He's an idiot. Shocking he had a "miss" encounter with that buck (sarcastic). I can only imagine how many he wounded trying to make that shot. 

     

    The DIFFERENCE is that you already see xbows MARKET the ease of their use and distance abilities and just pulling up the scope to the deers chest is what gives so many gun hunters the false confidence that is mentioned. Never mind the fact that it's already cocked and you can get ready 5 minutes prior to the deer being in range. 

     

    And no, I don't have a choice. It remains to be seen, but my guess is that my local neighborhood idiots who's idea of deer hunting is just beating the brush with a gun will now enter the former archery woods and my hunting will change and nothing I can do about it. If we pick up enough slob gun hunters, archery will be more like gun season where you simply look for escape routes on largely nocturnal deer. The real choice would have been a separate weapon season for each. Congrats to those who wanted xbow, gun season just got even longer and now the DEC is that much closer to their 1.5yr old age class goal. 

     

    And almost 40 years of crossbow hunting in Ohio proves you wrong!

    • Like 4

    Great News

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    What do you think level of training is needed to take a 100 yard compound shot versus a 100 yard crossbow shot? Why can't I set up in a blind and use my crossbow rest in my blind, similar to a rifle and at least shoot out to 60? Sure I could shoot 60 yards with my compound but I bet I'd be practicing a lot more to feel good about taking that shot. All I have to do is site in my crossbow scope right? Similar to the 8 year old boy shooting a trophy buck out off a platform with his dad's rifle on a rest... there's just not as much effort and training needed. That was my only point. That and I don't have to time my draw right either. Just cocked and locked. Pull the trigger.

     

    And this doesn't even get into the "over confidence" factor that many gun hunters have. I can imagine, if crossbows are as challenging as many of you claim, the amount of hunters who will take theirs out of the box and head into the woods thinking they're Daryll from the walking dead.

     

    This sounds like you have never shot a crossbow, but you are well aware of how they perform. sure you can set up a rest in a blind, but what if the deer isn't in front you you where the rest is? Now what?

    Take the time to hunt with one and then you can tell us how easy it is. You are very well versed in the conjecture and emotion that has been spewed for years.

    It's Official!!

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    Congrats someday I may have to trade in my bow as I am not getting any younger

    still not legal here in NH during archery so I wont be going out to buy one anytime soon

    will this go into affect this upcoming season?

     

    There will be a Public comment period, but there should be plenty of time for the regs to be finalized

    It's Official!!

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    It’s Official!! April 1, 2014

    Late Monday night, the Senate and Assembly both passed the Budget and this morning Governor Cuomo signed it into law.

    Thus, crossbows are now officially a legal hunting implement in New York!

    I would like to thank Governor Cuomo for his support for this as well as the members of the Senate and Assembly that were influential in getting the compromise into the final budget. Senators Pat Gallivan, Dave Valesky and Mark Grisanti and especially in the Assembly, Sean Ryan, Aileen Gunther and Donna Lupardo for their leadership in getting the other members of their chambers to come to the table making New York the 28th state that allows crossbows during at least part of the archery seasons.  

    The crossbow will now be turned over to the DEC to work on setting the regulations within the parameters set forth in the budget. The process will include a Public Comment period where all NY’ers will have the ability to voice their opinions on the use and seasons.

    I would also like to thank everyone that took the time to make the contacts with their respective legislators and the leadership in the Assembly and Senate. Without your help and perseverance our grassroots effort would not have been achievable.

    Another Thank You goes to all of the Organizations that partnered with our coalition including the Audubon Society, The Nature Conservancy, The NYS Farm Bureau, New York Conservation Council, NYS Chapter of the National Wild Turkey Federation and the 4H NY Shooting Sports to name a few as well as many County Federations, Associations and local sporting clubs.

    Today, crossbows have been awarded their proper place in the sporting community and everyone of us should be proud of what we have been able to achieve. As we have said from day one, “Together WE will Succeed”, and with hard work and determination we have.

    Thank you and Happy Hunting

    Rick McDermott
    New York Crossbow Coalition
    www.nycrossbowcoalition.com

    • Like 3

    Great News

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted · Edited by tughillmcd

    I never said you couldn't shoot 100 yrds accurately with a compound. The point I'm trying to make is that there are many more ways to steady your shot with a X bow than a compound. Hence giving you more of an advantage with a X bow. Right or wrong?

     

    If a deer presents itself where you can use your rest you have a point, but how many times have you had a deer come in from behind you or from a direction you had not prepared for? Remember, as you stated, we are talking hunting not target shooting, You can only assume a shooting assist device, ie rail, bipod etc., is of value when everything works out as planned. And we all know, more times than not, the unpredictable will happen. That's why it's called hunting not killing.

    As Doc stated, crossbows are here and it's time to accept it.

    • Like 1

    Great News

    in CrossBow Hunting

    Posted

    And your point? Two total different situations. We're talking hunting. Not target shooting. Whens the last time you seen someone hunting with a 30' front bar and a 15" side bar with scopes and 27 series arrows?  You can try and sugar coat it anyway you want........I'm not buying it.

     

    Did you miss this video? This is an off hand compound shot. This is hunting not target shooting. There are no bars, front or side.

     

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