Tacti_Steve

Had a lot of fun this weekend at the Northeastern Big Game Trials. Got to get away from the table for a few minutes to watch some of the events. Videos

https://www.facebook.com/Northeastern-big-game-trials-406520062843211/?fref=ts http://www.kcshounds.com/Northeastern_Big_Game_Trials/2015/PR/2015_NBGT_Press_Release.pdf

The closest clubs to rochester are the Albion, branchport and warsaw clubs. None are really close. I go to the Albion club whenever I can. The guys there are pretty nice. I recommend searching around http://kcshounds.com/ Matt the guy that owns it lives in Fairport. It's a small group of close niche guys that are always nice to people looking to get into the sport. I'm in scottsville. I haven't been running my hound the past couple of months as much as I normally do. I've just been super busy. I've been running 1-2 nights/week where usually I run 5+. I've also only got a new pup that is not doing very well. But you're welcome to set up a night to come out with me. http://www.coondawgs.com/is also a good site for information but the guy that runs it is kind of a jerk. He won't let you post any question that has already been asked so for someone like you it's really just for searching around and researching. But it does have a lot of really good information.

Anyone else going to the Northeastern Big Game Trials in Salem NY this weekend?

There are several clubs in western NY. Including me depending on where you are. My advice would be to go to an event and not only talk to people but go along as a spectator. It will open your eyes to a whole new hunting. Just bring your boots and a decent light. You can do a flash light but I'd recommend a $20 Cree light from Amazon. That's how I got my start. Here's a link to the events The Northeastern Big Game Trials are also this weekend in Salem NY. That would be a great place.

Congrats!!!

Got out Saturday night to the "special dog training area" (same woods I hunt often). Axle did alright. Still needs a lot more training.

It depends on what I'm hunting and what the weather is like/going to be. Usually I carry a pack with the basics and what I'll need for that hunt.

It just occurred to me that I've never poster here about Special Dog Training Areas. This is something every Houndsmen in NYS must know about. Frankly I'm surprised more don't use them. This is a law I really got into when I started running coon hounds. And I'm so glad I did the research. I ended up at the regional director for DEC region 8 clarifying the law. In my research I found out the law was put in back in the 1930's for Rabbit clubs. And it has pretty much been forgotten about ever since. Backing up a second let's start with why there is a need for these. Section 11-0923 of the Environmental Conservation law says no owner or trainer of a dog shall take it afield for training on wild game except from July 1st for Bear, Raccoon, Fox, Bobcat or Coyote and August 16th for everything else; to April 15th. Why is that? Well because that is when animals have their young. They don't want dogs and hunters harassing the young or the possibility of dogs catching the young. Understandable. That's not very sporting. But let's remove the sporting aspect for a moment. Why else would you be running your hound outside of the killing season? Maybe for competitions? 11-0927 of the Environmental Conservation law covers those. "A field trial may be held on liberated game, liberated artificially propagated game, led or confined game legally possessed, or on wild game on a licensed dog training area at any time without license, provided such game is not taken by shooting or otherwise killed; and, on areas other than a licensed dog training area, such field trials may be held on wild game from August 16 to April 15 without license, or at such other times when licensed by the department from April 16 to August 15." Now we start to see language and a need for training areas. So the DEC has to create a permit to allow clubs to run in this "off season". To do that they need to create some rules as to where and how you conduct the hunt. So enters 11-0925 (I know it's actually before 11-0927) of the Environmental Conservation law "Special Dog Training Area" and "Part 66". A quick little side blurb about part 66. It is the part of the law that every officer does know. It doesn't say a whole lo that 11-0925 doesn't. But a key thing to know is that it is not posted online in it's entirety! I didn't realize that until the Lt in Avon sent me a scanned in copy of his book.There are some very critical parts missing from what is posted online. Here's the short and sweet of it. The license the clubs get basically says hey we're going to have a competition. Now for the coon hunts they don't (can't) have penned in land to run the dogs. So basically it says they can hold the competition on land they have permission to. But for say Rabbit or bird clubs that generally will have a penned in property it outlines the criteria. Basically that it has to be registered and posted as a Special Dog Training Area. Ok so that covers the competitions and we now have rules for Special Dog Training Areas. Why else would you be out there during the "off season"? How about to keep animals from destroying crops? Let's go back to 11-0923. "allow it [dog] to run at large in fields or woods inhabited by deer outside the limits of any city or village, except on lands actually farmed or cultivated by the owner or trainer of the dog or a tenant of such owner or trainer". In English that is saying that you can allow a dog to run free in any farmed field. But not the tree's surrounding the field. Not that you can "train" your dog. But that you can let it chase game out of the field to prevent crop damage. Any other reasons? How about because I want some exercise, I need to keep my dog trained in-between competitions, or that my dog is going to tree the coon after it chases it out of the field? Now it gets interesting! In all honesty I love running my hounds because it gets me out. It's a stress reliever, its exercise, it's get away from my wife, and it's I love to hear my dogs on track. In the years I've been doing this I have never had my hounds catch a kit coon. I've had them catch full grown ones. Now sure it's possible. But let's be honest if it happens is it really going to make any impact on the population? Hound hunting is way down, Raccoon populations are way up (arguably out of control). No there's no real wrong here. Plus in order for me to hunt most of the properties I do, I've got to show that I'm reducing the crop damage. I've got farmers that have told me I'd better be shooting them down all year and to not let them see me out there without a gun (more on that later). So I need a legal means to be out there. And trust me I get stopped enough that yes I need to be legal. So I went looking for a way. I found this law on special dog training areas. And like most laws things weren't clear, things conflicted, and things were missing. So I started asking questions. One of the places I went to for answers was the DEC. I asked where I get a permit for a Special Dog Training Area. Well come to find out if the property is privately owned, I don't pay to use it, and not used by a club or for a competition I don't need a permit. Nor does the property need to be marked or registered as such. It just simply needs to be declared. Really what it came down to was they don't care. Essentially it's my word against the officers that it has been declared a Special Dog Training Area. Now the catch is it needs to be declared as such by the property owner (not me). So I wrote my hunting permission slips in such a way that the owners are declaring it. Thereby avoiding the officer waking a farmer up at night and the farmer not knowing what he is talking about. Because they don't care and they're not going to remember. I have it in writing so it is. Now some restrictions. This doesn't work on any public land. In fact it is specifically called out that parks and whatnot can't be declared Special Dog Training Areas. Now I do hunt some public lands so I do try to keep that in mind. Let's go a little further down the rabbit hole. Remember I said there are a couple of farmers that say I have to carry my gun and shoot the Raccoon's? How about the fact that I have a pistol permit and carry as often as I can for protection. And yes Coyotes attack my dog while he's tree'd with some regularity, so there is a need for protection. Now until this point I (as are most people) was under the impression you cannot have a firearm in the field while training your hound. I don't understand why. You're not guilty of poaching until you actually shoot something. Essentially not allowing it is a presumption of guilt and that you're going to do something illegal. Good thing that impression is false. I think it comes from two things. First you can't have a firearm with you during a competition. Secondly you can't have a firearm with you unless it's loaded with blanks per 11-0923. Now the Supreme Court in the Heller decision confirmed the right to possess a firearm is an individual right for protection. So there's some conflicts here and arguments that can go both ways. I'm not going to go into those. The point is expect problems. The saving grace if you're going to carry is that you are in fact allowed to. Therefore there is no cause for them to inspect (search) the bullets in the gun. So make sure you declare for the record you are declining search and seizure and you'll have a leg to stand on. Now like I said I get stopped almost frequently. I've never had this come up. They check my permit and move onto whatever it is they stopped me for. I've had officers tell me that as long as I'm not carrying a gun typically used for Raccoon hunting I should be ok. So my 9mm or even stretch that to my 22 mag and it's a defense gun with a good argument as such. Keep in mind though that is up to opinion. Regardless you could be in for a long night. In summary, you can run your hound on any game other than Bear or Deer all year round as long as you are on private property "declared" a Special Dog Training Area. You can even carry a gun with you, but you're asking for a hassle if you do. Porcupine's are the alternative to Special Dog Training Areas. There is no season on porcupines. There are also no rules against hunting them with Hounds. Now the laws recognize that sometimes hounds chase unintended game. In the sport this is called Trashing. As soon as you realize that the hound is chasing unintended game you are supposed to stop it. Now porcupines and raccoon's are very difficult to tell apart on track. You often don't know until the dog trees them. So if your hound trashes on raccoon's when its "supposed" to be running porcupines well bad dog. The other thing you're not supposed to do when training your hound at all let alone in a special dog training area is carry a firearm loaded with anything other than blanks. But if you're hunting porcupines you're allowed to carry a firearm loaded with whatever you want really as there are no restrictions on bullet type for porcupines. Happy Hunting! § 11-0923. Dogs. 1. No owner or trainer of a dog shall: a. allow it to hunt deer, or to run at large on enclosed lands on which wildlife or domestic game is possessed under license issued pursuant to the Fish and Wildlife Law or in any state park, state park reservation, state-owned game farm or wildlife refuge or state-owned or leased wildlife management area; b. allow it to run at large in fields or woods inhabited by deer outside the limits of any city or village, except on lands actually farmed or cultivated by the owner or trainer of the dog or a tenant of such owner or trainer. 2. No owner or trainer of a dog shall take it afield for training on wild game except from August 16 to April 15 or as otherwise permitted by department order. 3. Dogs may be trained on artificially propagated game which is shackled, or led or confined game, legally possessed, or on training dummies or other artificial devices at any time on lands owned or leased by the owner or trainer of the dog or on lands for which he has written permission of the owner or lessee, provided such training is done in a manner to preclude any disturbances injurious to wildlife. 4. During the training of a dog, the trainer and any person in his company shall not possess afield a firearm loaded with ammunition other than blank shells or blank cartridges, or inflict any injury to animals or game birds contrary to law. 5. Dogs hunting deer, or hunting any wildlife or domestic game on enclosed lands described in paragraph a of subdivision 1 or on a state game farm or wildlife refuge or wildlife management area, may be killed as provided in section 11-0529. 6. Wildlife, except skunk, deer and bear, may be taken with the aid of a dog, provided, however, that the department is authorized to establish a training season during which only persons licensed by the department pursuant to section 11-0928 of this article may train tracking dogs on bear. Such season shall not begin before July first and shall end at least eight days in advance of any open hunting season for bear and no person participating in such training shall possess a firearm of any kind or a longbow. Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to invalidate or otherwise affect a permit to track or take bear issued pursuant to subdivision one of section 11-0521 of this article. § 11-0925. Special dog training areas. 1. a. A dog owner or trainer may establish and maintain a special dog training area on land which the owner or trainer owns or has legal control. b. The operator of a special dog training area may at any time during the year train the operator's own dogs or the dogs of other persons on such area, and permit others to train dogs. The operator may hold field trials on wild game, or on liberated game, or on liberated artificially propagated game, or on led or confined game, or may in writing permit others to hold such trials, under such conditions as shall be agreed upon by the operator and such other person; but no game shall be taken by shooting at such field trial. No persons shall, on a special dog training area, train a dog, hold a field trial, enter accompanied by a dog, or permit a dog of which he is the owner or trainer to enter, except as provided in this section or in rules adopted pursuant hereto. A permit from the department must be obtained before liberation of any wildlife, and such a permit may be withheld if, in the opinion of the department, granting it would endanger the health of native wildlife species. 2. The department may adopt rules regulating the use of special dog training areas. 3. No person shall hunt on a special dog training area except as provided in this section or rules adopted pursuant thereto. The owner of the lands may hunt unprotected wildlife thereon at any time, and the owner of the land and others authorized by such owner may hunt deer thereon during the open season but at no other time. 11-0927. Field trials. 1. No person shall hold a field trial except as provided in this section or take part in a field trial not conducted in accordance with the provisions of this section. 2. a. A field trial may be held on liberated game, liberated artificially propagated game, led or confined game legally possessed, or on wild game on a licensed dog training area at any time without license, provided such game is not taken by shooting or otherwise killed; and, on areas other than a licensed dog training area, such field trials may be held on wild game from August 16 to April 15 without license, or at such other times when licensed by the department from April 16 to August 15. b. A permit from the department is required for liberation of any wildlife. 3. Wild game shall not be taken by shooting or otherwise killed in the course of a field trial. Other game on which a field trial may be held as provided in this section may be taken by shooting in the course of a field trial, except a field trial held on a licensed dog training area, provided a license for such shooting has been procured from the department. Game so taken shall be immediately identified on forms provided by the department until the game is finally prepared for consumption. 4. Game so identified may be possessed, transported, bought and sold at any time, without limitation by section 11-0917 of this article. Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 14:34:07 -0400 From: [email protected] To: Subject: RE: Special Dog Training area information Stephen, Yours is the first request regarding this topic I have had in the 7 years I have been Regional Wildlife Manager, and the law is rather vague. Rather than giving you incorrect information I have requested clarification on this issue from Albany, as to whether or not a Special License is required to create a Special Dog Training Area, and what the requirements are for creating such an area, given that no hunting for anything other than deer is allowed on Special Dog Training Areas. It may be easier to answer your question regarding the actual training, if I knew what type of training you were interested in doing. The law and regulations work together depending on the training and whether it is on wild game or captive game, and who owns the lands the dog will be trained on. Michael R. Wasilco Regional Wildlife Manager NYS Department of Environmental Conservation Region 8 Bureau of Wildlife 6274 East Avon-Lima Road Avon, NY 14414 (585)226-5460 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 16:34:47 -0400 From: [email protected] To: Subject: RE: Special Dog Training area information Mr.: The owner/operator may hunt protected game animals during the open season and may hunt unprotected wildlife anytime, providing they have a hunting license. 66.1(e) States: Each license for a dog training area issued under 11-0925 of the fish and wildlife law will be in effect from Jan 1st-Dec 31st, or a shorter period as specified on the license. 11-0925 does not provide information regarding the application process for a Special dog training area. That's why I suggested you call the Special License unit.Capt. John W. Burke NYS DEC Police 6274 East Avon-Lima Road Avon, NY 14414-9519 Office - 585-226-6706 Fax - 585-226-8533 From: [email protected] To: Subject: RE: Special Dog Training area information Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 14:52:37 +0000 Good morning Steve, My apologies for the marked delay. The department does not license dog training areas and, provided the provisions of ECL 11-0925 and Part 66 of the Codes, Rules and Regulations of New Yorkhttp://www.dec.ny.gov/regs/3990.htmlare followed, an individual may establish a special dog training area without license. Please note, a license from the department is required prior to the release of any wildlife to the wild including captive bred species.

Steel shot is going to affect older guns more than newer ones. But yes eventually it is going to wear them out. So will lead but steel will do it quicker.

Sorry for the late response. Had my eyes operated on so I haven't been online much. When you have the section yellow under the "I want to" click additional details. Then the left pane should change and you should see something like this That's what you feed into step 12. PT_KEY 200.03-1-13.XXX

For those that haven't seen it here is my research http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/32110-my-hunting-with-lead-bullets-research-not-a-debate/Keep the debate here

That is the best study I've seen so far. Now take that and scale it up across the country and using different rifles and bullets (and shotguns). Pair that with a true control of Deer not shot and you've got yourself a study.

You can control for Deer shot by hunters. You can take Deer hit by cars and not put down with a bullet.

Was there a formal brief put out somewhere on this?

These studies are not complete nor comprehensive. In fact they are extremely flawed. Most have no control study and extremely limited samples. None control for outside factors and make or ignore major assumptions. Not to say their findings are useless. They are good for saying hey we should look closer at this. But not much more than that. States that have made regulations based off of these have made bad regulations and/or gone along with special interest groups.

Having a soon to be 1 year old, this topic really got me thinking. So I'm doing some research and here's the main highlights of what I've found. Of course do your own research don't just take my word for it. This is not a debate this is my research and my opinion on it. Take it for what it's worth. "And the result is that there is a mildly elevated level of lead in the blood of the sampled population. Lead levels ranged from no detectable levels to 9.82 micrograms per deciliter (CDC guidelines say that lead levels above 10 micrograms per deciliter of blood can cause physical and cognitive problems). The North Dakota health department issued this dire warning based on the study:" http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/whitet... This is a better article that dives deeper into the a different study and finds "Ingesting lead particles in game meat is not the most important source of lead exposure to humans,” "those who consumed game meat had only 0.3 micrograms per deciliter higher PbB than did those who had not consumed game meat." The most significant finding here for me was that "Using radiography, researchers detected lead in tissue samples, as much as 18 inches away from the exit wound, and noted that most of the particles were too small to see or feel." A couple of shots and you've potentially contaminated the entire Deer. But I can easily see the lead traveling easier through the body cavity than through the actual muscle. So we need to study how the lead is traveling in order to understand what parts of the Deer are being contaminated. The white paper from the Wisconsin study is probably the most useful research I've found. However the study was significantly flawed. 183 packages from at most no more than a dozen deer is not a large enough sample size. Granted they came from 6 different butchers but even if they were spread as far apart as possible across the state, it is not a large enough sample size. Even when you add the 114 samples from "hunters" they were people involved in the study and probably geographically located close to each other. If you read the findings not just the study summary you find that between 8-15% of the samples tested positive for lead with averages between 1.8-2.4 mg/kg. The question becomes is that a hazardous or risky amount? It's important to convert that to the proper measurement. That's 1800-2400 micrograms (mcg)/kg. Now I'm not sure how to convert Kg to L when taking into account that we are talking about muscle. So for my analysis I'm using the conversion of water which is 1:1. Therefore this converts to 180 mcg/dl. Well above the CDC amount of 10 mcg/dl. Right there a major flag should be going up. That's very bad!!! Let's look at the math another way to try and validate the study. I shoot 1 oz. shotgun slugs. That's 437 grains. Let's take the assumption on the high end in that most rifle slugs (Deer in this study were shot with rifles) are 200 grains or about half an oz. The Wisconsin study used samples sizes of 1/4 lbs. There are 14175 mg in half an ounce. That is .013% of each bullet per 1/4 lbs sample. Now lets make the assumption that accounting for bone, hide, blood, and guts the average Deer (without those) weighs 100 lbs. That is about 47 lbs of meat harvested. Now given the average Deer size and a perfect kill zone (heart and lung) shot about half the meat is within 18" diameter. That is 23.5 lbs. Scale that to the sample size it is 94 samples. Multiply 94 samples times .013% that is 1.22%. That means that 98.78% of a bullet is in the removed parts of the Deer and/or exits the Deer. To me that is pretty realistic. But wait only 8-15% of the samples were contaminated. Using 15% that is 14.1 samples. That's only 0.182% of the bullet leaving 99.82% of the bullet in the removed parts of the Deer and/or exits the Deer. That is even more realistic. One part of the study that raised my eyebrows was table 2 on page 5 (9 of the PDF). I'm not going to repeat it but it has to do with their predicted lead concentration in children that consume venison shot with lead bullets. Their predictions don't match reality. People have been hunting with lead bullets and consuming the meat as a staple of their diet for hundreds of years. Given their predictions we would have killed ourselves or at least all have been poisoned a long time ago. Point, if this were true we would have seen the effects a long time ago and this would have been a much larger issue than it is today, a long time ago. This also does not align with the North Dakota study that found only a 0.3 mcg/dl higher rate in the blood of those that eat game meat. Let's keep going. There was no control study done. It wouldn't be hard to take some road kill Deer from across the state and perform lead testing. What if the bullets aren't causing the lead to be in the tissue? Or what if it's not the bullet that they are being shot with causing the contamination? No data was recorded as to what type of bullet they were shot with. What if we change the material of the bullet but without accounting for the actual ballistics we cause an even worse problem? What if it is modern bullets that cause the contamination? Take for example plastic bullets. What if they deposit other chemicals into our meat. Reality check for a moment. I've been eating venison as a staple in my diet for my entire life. My wife since just before we got married (so 7 years). When my wife became pregnant (a year and half ago now) we were tested and both of us had an undetectable amount. As did our daughter when she was born. So what does that say about all this? If this is such a problem why are we not seeing it? The CDC reports over the last 10 years that the number of children <72 months old that tested positive for lead levels above the 10 mcg/dl is less than 1%. That is down from 8% 20 years ago. That is a significant decline. Now the number of children tested has risen. So there is argument that prior to 10 years ago there was a flaw in the sample or data collected not being representative of the true population. Hunting has also declined over the last 20 years. Although the last 10 years includes a recession where hunting numbers actually increased slightly yet there is no corresponding correlation in the number of children that tested positive. Another aspect though is how many people feed their children venison. I'm probably among the minority that feeds my <1 year old venison. But I know a lot of people that feed it to >2 year old's. Now depending on what source you use, hunting hovers just above 10% of the US population. So what needs to be looked at is the correlation between children that test positive and parents that hunt and feed them what they shoot. Not having a study on this correlation I'm going to go with my gut and logical thinking and say there isn't one. If there was I would think it would stick out like a sore thumb especially given such a decline in the amount of children testing positive. Here's the logical thinking. The US population is about 323M. 10% hunt that that's 32M. Now I found conflicting information for the next part. Some sources say 74% of Americans have children. Others say there are 74M children in the US. That's only about 30%. So for this I'll error on the side of caution and go with the lower 30%. That's 10M hunters have children. There are about 4M children born each year and we'll go with an average of 3M tested for lead. Now granted that is not saying that 3M newborns are tested. Some children are tested multiple times in their lives and others are never tested. It also does not give the ages children are tested at. Therefore I think a safe assumption is that in general the testing occurs near birth or at least less than 2 years of age. This is the age that above I said were probably not eating game meat. Therefore there is argument that the CDC's results are not meaningful in this discussion. But let's say for a second it is, and that there is some kind of unknown correlation between children that eat game meat and those that test positive. For this I actually went to the data on the CDC's site and went back to 1997. There were 109M children tested and 1.79% tested positive. If there is a correlation we'll say for arguments sake that half of those were children that ate game meat. That means that just shy of 976,000 children tested positive as a result of eating game meat. Now remember we said above there are at least 10M children that are families of hunters. That's about 1% are testing positive. And that is using the assumption that there is a correlation. How can there be a correlation if it's not significantly higher than the population average? Therefore I conclude that there is no correlation between eating game meat and testing positive for lead. So what are the take ways from this? First I'm going to be doing my own studies. I have I think five different Deer in my freezer right now. There are ways you can test your food for lead. A little bit of Google searching and I came up with several different methods. http://www.home-health-chemistry.com/Lead-Detectio... I'm going to stop feeding my baby venison until I do my own testing any maybe until I get some Deer shot with non-lead ammo. Do I think this is a cause for panic? Absolutely not. We've been eating food shot with lead bullets for hundreds of years. But we also used to put lead in paint and pipes. We learn from our mistakes (or at least those with lower lead levels do). I think we need to push our federal government for a comprehensive study on the use of lead bullets. We as consumers need to begin to press manufactures to begin exploring alternatives. What we don't need is government regulation. We need to let the market sort this out. The government should provide the studies and resources for the market to react to. If those studies and resources determine a real problem then let the market find the solution. That is how true innovation works. The market as a whole has significantly more resources to explore alternatives. People as a whole will educate themselves and choose the best bullet. It may not be a one size fits all solution. Very similar to what we are doing with wind and solar energy. That my friends is what we are about here at Hunting Tactical. New technology, new innovation, and improving Hunting.

All that says is what every other survey of the sorts say. People don't like change. There was a time when people insisted the world was flat too. Bet you would have had similar survey results back then. I will say that I do oppose a ban on lead ammunition. Especially before a viable market alternative has been proven.

Mike, That's not at all what I'm saying. Ingestion of lead is bad. No dispute here. What I'm saying is that the studies are not inclusive enough. They are extremely small sample sizes with far too many assumptions. Take the Wisconsin study. It was about a dozen total Deer and just over 200 samples. It was all rifle but no data was gathered as to the types of bullets or where the meat was taken from. And still 8%-15% contained and avg of 1.4 mg/kg of lead. That is enough to raise a flag sure. That tells me a complete comprehensive study needs to be done. There was also absolutely no control study done. What if shooting the Deer is not how the lead is getting there? Simply banning lead bullets does not solve "the problem". It may stop the ingestion of lead. But if it leads to another type of toxic round then there is still a problem. We need to fully understand what is happening.

This is a better article that dives deeper into the a different study and finds "Ingesting lead particles in game meat is not the most important source of lead exposure to humans,” "those who consumed game meat had only 0.3 micrograms per deciliter higher PbB than did those who had not consumed game meat." https://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=311:lead-recommedations&catid=34:ONB%20Articles&Itemid=54

I disagree. "Too Costly" to me is anything other than the cheapest bullet when it comes to killing Deer. Generally I shoot Remington 1 oz rifled slugs. I can find them anywhere and less than a $1/round. My father bought 500 boxes of them years ago when they were still $0.25/round. I'm not saying lead is a good thing or that there is one alternative. We need alternatives that are equal or less expensive and as effective. Oh yeah and less toxic. So far there is no good alternative that when shot in the same volume as lead is any less toxic, less expensive and as effective. Again to scale. And that article http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wild-game-deer-venison-condors-meat-lead-ammunition-ban/ I'mcalling BS. I'm calling that anti-internet spam. I want to see a real study that publishes its data, research and findings. Along with its assumptions. In fact I'm going to research how to test the meat in my freezer for myself.

Is that this app http://www.huntinggpsmaps.com/android-app-subscription It looks really nice but its not free. It has a subscription fee though. Not bad at $30/year but I'm not sure its worth it even for someone that hunts as often as me. I need my maps on my Garmin Alpha there's no need for me to also have this.

They could draw their own. They're allowed paper. Actually I heard they can't have guns anymore either. Because they need a photo id to get the NICs check and they can't have their picture taken.

The below steps are only for those that like me live in Monroe County NY. But the principles apply to everyone. Simply just knowing the actual property maps not only ensure that you stay legal when hunting, but also that you stay in the right and you don't upset people. But I have also found that people think they own property they don't. This is when having a print out of the tax map in your truck with your permission slips really comes in handy. I also take screenshots of the tax map and load them onto my Garmin Alpha so I know when my hounds are about to leave the property and I can turn them around. Open the Monroe County Parcel Viewer This step is optional but I really like it. Click the icon in the lower left of the map. This will expand to three options Community 2015 Aerial 2012 Aerial Click 2015 Ariel and wait for the aerial overview to load (it will not load if you're not zoomed in enough). This is really cool because you can see right down to the tree where the property line is In the upper right click the tools menu and then the zoom in option Click and hold about where in the county you want to see and drag the mouse over the area creating a box. Continue to do this until the aerial overview loads and you can see all the property lines. Generally so that about 1 mile covers your screen You can move around the by click the tools icon again (so that it says tools and not zoom in) and then clicking the center of the map and dragging it around Once you have located the property that you want to view click and hold it The property should turn yellow and the pane on the left will populate with information (you might need to click additional information in the popup) Highlight and copy the PT_KEY Open a new tab and go to the Monroe County Real Property Portal Paste the PT_KEY into the Parcel ID box and click search Some general information will display Click "Pay Property Taxes" (green button) in the upper right This will open a new tab that will display the legal owner of the property and their mailing address I find this really helpful when searching for new places to hunt. Then I can go right to the owner and get permission. I like this because often times that is not who posts the property or "controls" it. I have found that often times farm workers have claimed hunting in certain areas but the farmers will let you out. The workers won't. But when you get it in writing from the farmer they can't kick you off. I hope this helps someone!!! Play around with it and have fun.