Padre86
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Posts posted by Padre86
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52 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:
Where are you in Rochester that you are 11/2 hour from the park? Zip right down 390, I wish i was that close. I leave 1000 acres of our great farm land to drive 3 hours to our camp to spend 5 weeks hunting the park. Ya get out what ya put in!
Letchworth is easily an hour from Rochester, maybe less if you live in the southern suburbs. Rattlesnake is a bit more than that.
I know shotgun, archery and muzzleloading are allowed in Letchworth, but I haven't spent much time scouting that area, so I couldn't tell you what it's deer scene is like.
And you have a hunting camp at Letchworth that you spend 5 weeks at? The camp is actually within the state park? I had no idea they allowed that. Do you hunt in the gorge along the river or on the high ground?
Edit: And seriously? Why are you talking about how you "wish" you could live closer to Letchworth SP when Tug Hill, the Adirondacks and all kinds of other state lands are literally right at your doorstep? You live in Jefferson County, right?
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3 hours ago, Doewhacker said:
IMO other states near us have way way better state land or other public lands open to hunting. Like not even close. Just one mans opinion.
I'm heading up to the ADK's for a weekend or two this coming season for both bear and deer (firearm season). There is plenty of public land up there, a lot of it easily accessible....the density of game, especially deer, just isn't as high as other parts of NY. It's almost an inverse of the problem we have in western NY, where there are plenty of deer, just not a lot of public lands to access them by.
But in general, I agree with what you're saying. The rural areas south of Rochester are teeming with deer; there just isn't much, if anything, in the form of public land to access them, at least not in Monroe.
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33 minutes ago, growalot said:
No thank you but here's and Idea... seeing I live in these areas( have a beautiful view of Hemlock from a few stands and I'm out every single day hunting during the season... You listen carefully and PLAN accordingly...you come on out to Canadice ,Hemlock, Rattlesnake hill, Harriet Hollister. Those are close enough, I could give you a few more a bit farther, but don't want to tax you...Now wait until Monday or Tuesday after the opener if your frightened and you will see plenty of deer.. Then plan on hunting the week days in any of those areas. That said, you actually still need to do a little work by scouting these areas ahead of time.....sshhhh don't tell anyone, but you actually need to do that on private or leased lands as well.
In all honesty Grow, weekday hunting is going to be a very likely approach for me. I am inclined to agree that the "traffic" out there will be a lot less compared to the weekends. And yes I agree scouting is important, for any hunter.
That said, weekday hunting of those areas will entail 1-1.5 hour commutes, one way. This means I need to take off from work (despite being a "have-not," I do have an 8-5 job
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Again, I'm not trying to earn sympathy from anyone. But I do maintain that the access and logistics behind hunting for some people living in Rochester and Buffalo isn't so simple and easy as some here make it out to be.
On that note, I acknowledge that my point has been thoroughly beaten to death and the floor is yours...
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4 minutes ago, growalot said:
I don't know is hunting still allowed on Townline road...Do they allow hunting in the old Kodak park area around River road...I know several people that work at RIT that would love to hit the deer on that property...want to talk about the unused corporate lands that have been bought and not developed yet.. Lets head out towards the Victor area where I had family living and drove through to go to work everyday...and with a family in commercial construction ...I haven't a clue as to how much land is out there. who owns Mendon ponds park? Yep you missed the whole lawyers are hired to advise and perhaps you should realize they do not pay these law firms just to disregard their advise.
You're welcome to join me for a hunt in Carlton Hill this coming fall. As well, I'd be more than happy to show you around Rochester so you can see for yourself where the deer have really started to congregate. Corporate lands and college campuses are simply examples of places where the excess deer end up when their #'s get out of control in the rural areas and municipal parks.
A lot of these rural, and even some suburban, areas, both private and public land, would be perfectly suited to bow-hunting if the local towns were open to it.
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23 minutes ago, growalot said:
Phade, I won't disagree with you on the above points ...That said for the areas your talking it just won't happen...I really want Moog to chime in on this for I could be wrong...but in the area you speak of you have corporations ,state and private college lands and county own,city owned vacant lands that lawyers are, I'm sure saying, no way. For one thing you are not going to get the DEC to do any over site on such lands for hunting...Easier to pay sharpshooters then there are the housing tracts... as far as the farms..well I addressed that in a previous post...
This just reinforces what I've suspected all along...you have no on-the-ground knowledge of many of these areas you keep referencing. State and private college lands? Those lands account for a minuscule percentage of the total land in Monroe. City-owned vacant lots? You really think there is a deer overpopulation in those areas?
And pay sharpshooters? What sharpshooters? You mean DEC officers? I highly doubt they'd use firearms in Rochester, or its suburbs, to cull deer #'s, if they were to do any culling at all.
There is a deer population problem starting to develop in Monroe, but the vacant city lots or college campuses aren't the epicenter of that problem. It's places like Mendon Ponds and other municipal parks, where hunting is prohibited, and the suburban and still-existing farm areas where the deer have really started to sprout up. And issuing special permits for bow-hunting would no doubt put a serious dent in the problem, but there is a lot of political redtape around such initiatives.
As I've said before Grow, you really owe it to yourself to get out and actually walk these places on foot before you make statements like these. And my offer to take you out hunting on public land still stands. It's anywhere from an 1-1.5 hours drive from my place to the nearest piece of land that I can hunt with a firearm. I make that drive 5-6 times every hunting season without complaint; it is what it is. But this rosy picture you've tried to paint about how it easy and accessible public land hunting is for western New Yorkers is quite separated from reality.
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34 minutes ago, growalot said:
Now that's MRS. Opinion to you, and not once did I ever say;
QuoteYour accusations that "whining Democrats" are somehow conspiring to steal your land, or gain access to it,
But I can understand in your frustration over the real reasons you feel private land owners should open their lands to strangers to hunt...isn't actually conservation...but more for a better quality hunt for your self. You really did make that clear the more you typed.
You've made the implication, numerous times, that my posts are advocating that landowners be forced to open up their lands to other hunters. In fact, the post above contains that very implication. And you've mentioned previously that you think myself, and several others expressing similar ideas, are Democrats who want want others have, as seen below:
On 9/6/2016 at 7:46 AM, growalot said:The "haves and haves nots" This entire thread explains exactly why this election is so screwed up! There are no "republicans " left...your all Democrats hiding under the republican name...
So, I may have paraphrased, but you've certainly expressed these ideas in previous posts.
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24 minutes ago, growalot said:
You do realize...You could have simple...not responded to my posts, if you thought I was being too antagonistic towards you, don't you? But I'll take the high road on just this one. I'll let you once again, blame someone else for your disappointing experience.
Really? Mr. Opinion himself takes umbrage to someone else expressing an opinion? And what is with this professional victim-hood? I'm not blaming you for anything. I'm expressing the opinion that there are better, more civil ways to engage in this type of discussion versus what you have been doing. Your accusations that "whining Democrats" are somehow conspiring to steal your land, or gain access to it, has totally derailed this thread from its original intent.
21 minutes ago, growalot said:That is actually what the CPR program and pheasant rearing programs do ,don't they? But this thread really isn't about conservation....
What is the CPR program? And how is that and the pheasant-rearing program related to this conversation?
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1 hour ago, growalot said:
This is the one I just love..my final word on this ,it just makes me ill.
Hey ,when do you want me to come over and help you out shooting those deer and When can I come over and help you out trapping those coons yotes and fox?
How many times have any of you heard....... Hey, when can I help you out with your taxes so I can enjoy hunting a season or Hey,when can I help out with your taxes, so I can enjoy some trapping and make money for my self off your land.
Because obviously you can't do it as well as me...
This thread has turned into the McCarthyism of the hunting community, in large part thanks to your antagonistic responses.
No one is demanding that landowners open up their land to other hunters. No one is even asking you specifically for permission to hunt your land. The only detailed suggestions I've seen made are that we discuss possible government and free-market initiatives to incentivize land sharing....and even mentioning that we've had someone spew some BS about how that is stealing money from the taxpayer. We already spends millions of taxpayer $ on a wide variety of conservation efforts and wildlife management. There should be nothing controversial about this topic...but somehow the outrage and name-calling has persisted throughout this thread.
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29 minutes ago, ....rob said:
I don't feel land owners should be forced to open their land to the public. This has been talked abut more then a few times here. Look at it this way, say you have a pool, is it OK for anyone to just stop in and use as long as they bring the beer? Or, just walk in and start watching TV if I leave a $5 spot on the table when I leave?
Who here is advocating for that?
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6 minutes ago, growalot said:
Listen carefully so you avoid looking stupid:
I have 73 acres and that is surrounded by 23 neighboring properties ...ALL hunters
Now I have a Spouse and 2 children ...All hunters and that statement said, strangers on my lands. Now we also have a camp 68 acres and all family have hunted there us,in laws and every year multiple friends come and spend days hunting there. There's a couple of guys on here that could attest to that......We have had as many as16 guys at one time on that and the 50 acres next to us we had permission to hunt...See what happens with assumptions and cherry picking. In fact I once had picture of all of the gang at camp posted here. I've mentioned the kids hunting here...Not so much Mr B but that's because he hunts at camp and does not like how unsafe it is to hunt here..Seeing both I and one of my neighbors have both been nearly shot out of our 16ft tree stands .Each on our own property by two different neighbors a year apart...
Now I have been purposely rather snarky with you, why? because I read between the lines and I will draw on someone until the lines widen and a bit more truth shows...your true has shown brightly, do not fault me for that, just own it...
Grow, fine, forget what I said about your property specifically; but others on here have said quite explicitly that they don't allow many others to hunt their lands.
And you're very conveniently ignoring the main point I was making: private land, on the whole, doesn't have nearly the same level of hunting pressure that public land does in western and central NY. The deer know this. If you'd like to join me for a hunt in Carlton Hill after the first day of gun season, I'd be more than happy to show you what I mean.
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14 minutes ago, growalot said:
Please enlighten me as to these lands you speak of. Also to the number of days and hours you hunt near said lands so I can get a better picture of the minimal pressure you have adhered to them.
Grow, you and a few others on here have freely admitted that you don't let many hunters onto your property, if any at all:
On 9/2/2016 at 6:15 AM, growalot said:Yes sir...as a landowner if I ever thought I might say yes to opening our place up to a stranger or to when I get too old or just can't hunt...That thought is so far gone the light of day will never find it after reading this.
On 9/2/2016 at 1:09 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:
I'm with grow on this one, maybe when I'm too old to hunt I might consider leasing it but as long as I'm able there will be no one else hunting other than my brother and father.
On 9/2/2016 at 2:54 PM, Papist said:We allowed some family acquaintances to hunt our property for a time. We endured poaching, littering and attempts to utilize multiple family tags in order to clean out the woods of deer. These guys were not even strangers.
On 9/4/2016 at 1:24 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:I am one of those selfish land owners that doesn't allow anyone to hunt it other than family and I still hunt state land most of the time. I do this because my 300acre and 100 acre chunks do no allow me to hunt the way I love to hunt. It's hard to spend a day tracking or still hunting on these small parcels and that's why I have a camp in the ADKS and that's where I spend the majority of my season. Now don't get me wrong I love having the ability to walk out my front or back door and go hunting. I only know of 4 deer being shot on the 300 acres around the house in the last 3 years and only 1 was a buck the other 3 were does that my 96 year old neighbor shot. I have a pretty balanced deer herd on it of about 2.5 does to bucks.
On 9/4/2016 at 2:04 PM, chefhunter86 said:
I am part of that 18-35 year old demographic and I have made it my business to be able to buy land. I work my ass off to do so and still have the things I want in life. And now that I do own land I will open it up to no one because I worked for it and it is mine. The only people besides myself and my wife that will be allowed to hunt is my long time hunting partner! We have been friends since we were kids, and have hunted together a long time now.... Heck I won't even let my own brother hunt.
I'm not knocking any of these posters for keeping their property exclusive or only allowing a select few acquaintances to hunt it. But there is no question that there is a huge difference between the hunting pressure deer face on public land and on private land when it comes to western and central NY.
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56 minutes ago, growalot said:
Say all you want, an Padre said it best in his post below. This entire thread had nothing to do with conservation...OP lost his hunting and had sour grapes and as Padre said:
I'm not seeing a whole lot of conservation concern in that quote...must be missing it....hhhmmmmm
Conservation is very much at the heart of what I brought up. When you have a whole bunch of hunting activity focused on select pieces of public land, while you have large swaths of private land that see minimal hunting, or in some cases none at all, you have an inherently imbalanced approach to managing the deer herd on a state-wide level.
The post of mine you brought up merely shows that public-land hunting isn't as easy and practical as you make it out to be. I've been saying from very early on though, that deer need to be managed with the bigger picture in mind or else we will have problems. I'm pretty sure the OP made that point as well.
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12 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:
I get the whole overpopulation, over browsing, disease thing, but it's private land...case closed. I think the State trying some type of incentive program for landowners to open their property to hunters is a great thing.....and it may work, but other then that it's a dead end road.
Hmmm, sounds very similar to something I've said previously.
There are some fairly common-sense, low-impact measures the state could adopt to work through this issue. And I suspect most, if not all, hunters would be perfectly okay with those measures. The accusations, made by some here, of Democrat-inspired attempts to subvert the freedoms of private landowners really doesn't add much to the conversation.
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6 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:
I haven't ran into another bowhunter in my public land spot in years.
I don't know where you hunt, but it's been crowded enough during the season at places like Carlton Hill and High Tor. And after the first day of gun season, a lot of game do start to disperse from those public land parcels.
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18 minutes ago, growalot said:
"Haves and have not's"...if that isn't Democratic thinking , then I do not know what is...Divisive? Why do you choose to call me that when I am merely giving some fact along with my opinion. I'm not being divisive, I'm showing an absolute zero personal tolerance for whiners that think their personal enjoyment of hunting falls on the shoulders of other people. If you can not get your head right with what you have available to you ,in terms of hunting and get the best enjoyment from it you can...then perhaps hunting really isn't for you...Now that would be a better thing for you to ponder than how landowners are ruining your fun.
You're hopeless Grow....if conservative traditions, including hunting, become marginalized in this state, you'll have your own stubborn self, and like-minded compatriots, to thank.
And for the nth time, I'm not advocating for forcing landowners to share their land with other hunters, and I don't think the OP was either. You and a few others on this thread keep repeating phrases like "free-lunchers" and "whiners" and "hunting on the shoulders of others." I do support free-market and government initiatives to incentivize sharing of private land; if that makes me a "free-luncher" then you and I have absolutely nothing to agree on here.
Edit: also, I never used the phrase "have and have not's."
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Grow, why are you being so divisive? You truly believe that anyone on this site who disagrees with you is a Democrat?
NY has added some new public land in recent years, but the overall amount of public land in western and central NY is very still very small in relation to the amount of private land, and come hunting season it is definitely very crowded in places like High Tor and Carlton Hill and Rattlesnake Hill. Outside of the Adirondacks, there isn't a whole lot of room to accommodate all or even most of the hunters who don't own land themselves...and this is a shame, because there is more than enough deer for everyone to hunt in western and central NY. The problem is that many people don't have a way to access them.
Land access is a huge issue in this state. Grow, you can disagree and rant all you want against that statement, but there are many hunters who will appreciate the issue...and despite your accusations, they're not all Democrats.
Edit: I couldn't add text to my previous post for some reason. Mods, feel free to add this to that one. And wow Grow, only took you a few minutes to respond; are you on post-alert 24/7?
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3 hours ago, growalot said:
You people live in a state that has continually added MORE land to it's public recreation...which includes hunting...You also have a state that has more land in private conservation contracts..which,fact, in many instances are huntable, if you go and do a little research. The "haves and haves nots" This entire thread explains exactly why this election is so screwed up! There are no "republicans " left...your all Democrats hiding under the republican name...
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30 minutes ago, growalot said:
Well If your in Rochester,than I know your full of shite..there is a ton of public hunting within a hour...much a half hour of Rochester. So don't whine of no access...you want the greener grass. There are guys on here and other states that drive hours to Letchworth to hunt....that's just one area.
You need to get out and go walk those lands when hunting season starts instead of just looking at a map.
Yes there is some public land to hunt in western NY, but there isn't a lot of it. All of the state lands, multiple use areas and national forests in western NY are teeming with hunters once the season starts....to the point where you're bumping into more hunters than you are game. Much of the game definitely becomes wise in those areas and heads off to other pieces of land, usually private, where they face far less hunting pressure. And you have to be extremely aware and careful of where you go...I can't even recall how many times I've walked down trails and right into the line-of-fire of other hunters who were still-hunting.
Is it possible to hunt public land in western NY? Yes. But it definitely isn't a great environment for newcomer, or even a veteran, to hunt in year-after-year.
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23 minutes ago, chefhunter86 said:
FYI my hunting buddy and I are both self taught neither of us came from a hunting family.... Yes MOST 18-35 year olds can afford land. But I worked my ass off to be able to afford mine.... Is it the idea piece, NO but it works for me right now. Not everyone has the same work ethic or the same opportunity in life. But we all live in a free country and with hard work and and a little luck we can all advance in life..... All this opening up private land to the woe is me hunter who can't afford It and who doesn't want to go find some public land really bothers me.... If that's what you want go move to a communist country, you can hunt all the no longer private land you want and wait in long lines for your food too
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou're being more than a bit unrealistic here. No they can't. And there are some very simple metrics to back that up. I'm talking about all people 18-35, not just middle class America or people already living/working in the rural counties. And even if everyone could afford to buy their own hunting lands, there wouldn't be enough available land to accommodate every person within that demographic, let alone every hunter in NY.
Kudos to you for setting a goal for yourself and working your butt off to accomplish it, but not everyone is that secure financially that they can buy, maintain and pay taxes for a whole separate piece of property set aside for hunting. And preaching that any and all hunters wanting access need to man up and go buy their own land is a piss poor way to welcome and encourage prospective hunters.
As I've said before, the viability of hunting in the future will depend greatly on how we as hunters welcome, train and mentor the next generation. The attitudes I've seen displayed here don't give me high hopes.
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5 minutes ago, chefhunter86 said:
I am part of that 18-35 year old demographic and I have made it my business to be able to buy land. I work my ass off to do so and still have the things I want in life. And now that I do own land I will open it up to no one because I worked for it and it is mine. The only people besides myself and my wife that will be allowed to hunt is my long time hunting partner! We have been friends since we were kids, and have hunted together a long time now.... Heck I won't even let my own brother hunt.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat's great for you, but the key word I used was "most." And I'll stand by what I said. "Most" people of that age bracket can't afford to buy their own land for hunting.
I grew up in Rochester, NY and I certainly didn't come from a hunting family. I got interested in hunting well after college, and with the exception of a little bit of help from 1 distant relative, I've been largely self-taught. From the outside looking in, the biggest deterrent for new hunters, besides learning how to hunt, is finding a place to hunt. If people on this thread want to pretend that isn't an issue and dismiss any dissenting opinions as selfish whining, so be it. But they're hurting NY's hunting community in the long run.
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25 minutes ago, growalot said:
That statement was neither anger nor spite and for years I've spoken of grooming this place to sell to hunters...but I am not going to do so when I continually read the whining that is coming from self indulgent self absorbed cry babies...Me,me ,me ,me...I want my fancy cars, boats, motorcycles ,60" flat screens ,yearly vacations, hunting gear, and by the way free access to your private land to hunt because it's better than state land that yours and everyone else taxes pay for...If you think for even a millisecond your post makes me feel bad about what I have taken away from, NOT JUST THIS POST.you'd be wrong... This happens every year...wha,wha,wha....
That whole paragraph, and your preceding posts, sure do convey a lot of spite and anger from the way I read them.
But to briefly address the entirety of your concerns:
a) No one is asking for free access to private land nor mandatory sharing of private land. But land access is undeniably a big issue in this state for hunters, especially for the younger ones. We need to find ways to promote access, whether it be via conservation easements, paying for access to private land, or creating more public land. I'd be interested in hearing any specific ideas you have on this issue. "Saving up your money" sounds great in concept, but doesn't really apply to the 18-35 demographic that we need to be targeting and passing on the hunting baton to. Most people of that age bracket have nowhere near the income required to go and buy their own land.
b ) Mature forests are not the biggest issue, at least in regards to private land, resulting in poor regeneration. Over browsing by a rising deer population is a bigger problem in parts of central and western NY, because many, though not all, landowners aren't properly managing the wildlife on their properties (either only hunting for bucks or not hunting at all). FWIW, I haven't seen any DEC studies properly document the forest regeneration of all of NY's land, but the DEC has rated large chunks of land in some surveys. Those surveys found that that largely untouched forests, e.g. the Adirondacks and Tug Hill, have been doing just fine in terms of forest regeneration, despite the lack of regular logging.
Some good DEC sources discussing these topics:
DEC 2012-2016 Deer Management Plan
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On 9/2/2016 at 2:53 PM, growalot said:
In fact I have been grooming this place to sell to hunters when the time comes...I'm actually thinking perhaps not...I'll be considering courting developers instead...
If there is one post in this entire thread that could effectively summarize what is wrong with hunting in New York, it is this one above.
Too many hunters in this state are in it for themselves or for their good ole boy network of hunting buddies...and not enough are looking out for the hunting community as a whole.
I'll reiterate what I've always said: private land is private and the owner can be as selective as he/she wants in terms of who is allowed to hunt it. No one is showing disdain for landowners growalot, nor is anyone advocating that we force landowners to accept strangers onto their lands. But there is a problem with deer overpopulation and poor forest regeneration in parts of this state, which the DEC has documented; most of it to do with too many buck being taken and not enough doe. And land access is a huge hurdle for many new and prospective hunters to overcome in this state.
If we hope to tackle either of those issues, we, as a hunting community, need to come up with solutions. Growalot, if you want to sell your land to developers, like I said, that's your choice and no one is going to dispute that. But the spite and outright anger you have towards non-landowners is not helping NY's hunting situation.
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3 hours ago, NYBowhunter said:
Why you ask? Its very simple just way to many dirtbags and low lifes in this world that have no repect for others property. Being a landowner and landlord, sometimes we think the people we know, we really dont. What some have worked thier lives to get can get destroyed by others in short order. Sometimes the risk just doesnt out weigh the benefits wether it be finacially or for the sake of animal mgt. Granted there many honest great hunters out there but who has the time to weed through them. Thats why when your out seeking permission you get the simple NO from landowners a vast majority of the times. Its just not worth the headache.
3 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:
I'm with grow on this one, maybe when I'm too old to hunt I might consider leasing it but as long as I'm able there will be no one else hunting other than my brother and father.
The real problem is that people can't be trusted. No one else treats my land as I do and as I want it treated.
It's just easier not to worry about it and have it to yourself.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkListen, I get that a landowner has the absolute freedom to choose who does and does not hunt on his land...and I would never argue to take that away.
But if individual landowners are only focused on their own hunting goals, are they still working towards the common goal of keeping the deer population, as a whole, healthy and stable? If you want to seal off your land from any and all strangers, that's your prerogative....just don't complain when the deer population starts to get out of whack.
That aside, land access is the number one issue deterring most new hunters from really getting involved in this activity. With the exception of the Adirondacks, which is a real tough area to hunt, there isn't a lot of public land for new people to get their feet wet on. Sooner or later, us older farts are going to die off. If we want the next generation to keep hunting viable, culturally and legislatively, we need to find ways to get more people out hunting...there isn't enough public land in western and central NY to accommodate everyone.
Edit: And I can totally appreciate why some landowners are skeptical of letting total strangers onto their property...it only takes a few ******* to really ruin it for everyone. All the same, if we are all only focused on our individual goals, we're going to have a tough time keeping hunting traditions alive going into the future.
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6 hours ago, growalot said:
Yes sir...as a landowner if I ever thought I might say yes to opening our place up to a stranger or to when I get too old or just can't hunt...That thought is so far gone the light of day will never find it after reading this.
See, I don't get this mentality. Don't get me wrong, I understand private land is just that....private. But if you're a landowner who at least understands the value of properly managing local animal populations, why would you not be in favor of allowing other hunters onto your land to help manage said populations (for payment or for free)?
And if the landowner can't or won't hunt anymore, why wouldn't he/she be in favor of allowing someone else to do that hunting?
FWIW, there is a deer population issue in western and central NY, most of it to do with too many bucks being taken and not enough does.
Leasing Ruins Conservation
in General Hunting
Posted · Edited by Padre86
So just to be clear then, you're not hunting in Letchworth SP itself, but on private land close by, correct?
If that is the case, I'm not really certain why you're telling me that I have it easy with accessible public land. If I follow you correctly, you're not hunting on state land, but rather private land, which as others have pointed out is an apple to oranges comparison.
And I still don't get why you drive 3 hours or so downstate to go hunt when you have hundreds of acres of private land and millions of acres of public land right within or next to your home county. Yes, I get it that the western NY bucks might be a little bigger than the Northern Zone ones, but still a deer is a deer...I wouldn't care too much about rack size if I were in your shoes. There is plenty of farmland bordering both Tug Hill and the ADK's where you could find decent-sized deer if that's what you're looking for.