wildcat junkie
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Posts posted by wildcat junkie
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I finished the stock with Birchwood Casey "Rusty Walnut" water based stain & Minwax "Antique Oil Finish" wet sanded with 320 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper & turpentine to fill the grain.
I reshaped the trigger guard, the metal is rust blued using Pilkington's Classic Rust Blue solution,
the screws & various small parts were "Niter blued" in the oven W/O salts.
I used the old tempering color chart trick & varied the temperature of the oven to achieve either blue or gold coloring.
Used it this year to take a nice 190# dressed 8-point
So far, it's 4 for 4 on Whitetail bucks.
I'd sure like to have a crack at an Adirondack Black Bear with it.
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I put the rifle together over several years.
I started with an intermediate length VZ500 Yugoslavian M98 action, (commercial version of the M48 Yugo)
a semi inletted stock from Great American Gun Stocks,
a very very good 98K take-off barrel from Numrich,
and a Neidner buttplate & grip cap.
I had Dennis Olsen turn down the barrell contour to my specifications.
Then I fit & soldered a barrel band swivel stud to the barrel.
It loves 200gr bullets, either Nosler Partitions or Speer Hot Cores leaving the muzzle at 2700 fps. I can achieve those MVs at 30-06 pressure levels with either Vv N550 or Alliant RL-17
Sub 1/2" 3 shot groups @ 100yds are routine if I do my part.
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I would like to see the stats that say it would significantly reduce the chances. If light is so low, you need to use BO to see someone, light is too low to be shooting.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9186.html
Hunter orange prevents other hunters from mistaking a person for an animal, or shooting in your direction.
Hunters who wear hunter orange are seven times less likely to be shot. For example, during the past ten years, not one person who was wearing hunter orange was mistaken for game and killed in New York. On the contrary, big game hunters who were involved in firearm related incidents were not wearing hunter orange.
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You are 100% wrong on this, sorry. Its a completely different deal than an officer finding someone with a loaded gun in their vehicle.
With Coyote, Fox, Raccoon, and a few other seasons open where it is 100% legal to hunt at night, the officer would have to prove you of shot or tried to shoot a deer. Nevermind the FACT that it is not illegal to posess a loaded weapon at night. It is only illegal to kill a game animal out of season or outside of the regulations.
How am I wrong. 1st of all, I stated it was a different situation. I also stated that the point was that if a ticket was issued & it most likely would be, you would still have to show up in court & the burden of proof would be no different than a traffic ticket for the DEC officer. How many traffic tickets do yu thonk are beaten on the dendants testimony?
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Let's clear some things up.
I do not advocate the mandatory use of blaze orange with things the way they are now. I require blaze orange for those that hunt my property for my own concerns over their safety as well as liability concerns. I don't shoot at brown spots W/O posutively identifyig them as deer. As a matter of fact I have (finally) reached a point where just any legal buck won't do so I take the time to size up the rack. I don't have control over what others do or what a potential tresspasser might do.
Regardless of the time of day, I don't condemn anyone for taking an ethical shot at a deer as long as there is adequate shooting light for positively indentifying the taget & making a clean shot with iron sights which can be a problem in low light even when the target is identified. That is between you & your conscience.
I think most people in the Northcountry tend to stretch the hunting hours as there usually plenty of ethical shooting light before & beyond the legal limits of sunrise & sunset. If I sit outdoors durin g gun season at sundown when deer are moving I will hear a lot more shots in the 30 minutes after sundown than before. It is happening, it's ilegal & that is unfortunate.
Unfortunately that is breaking the law & I think that law should be changed. I don't want to break the law to hunt during the most productive times on my lightly pressure property and I think that hunters that do "stretch" the hours feel the same way. The laws as they are now are making outlaws out of many otherwise ethical hunters.
IF the DEC would extend those hours for 30 minutes either way of sunrise & sunset I don't think it would make much difference in accident rates as stretching the hours is fairly widespread already in some places. Indeed, a good portion of the accidents that already occur are due to that factor. I do think that blaze orange would significantly increase the safety factor for low light conditions as it does stand out in low light even more than in daylight.
Here's the potential problem. If hours were extended, the 1st time a fatality occured even 1 minute past sundown the DEC would again restrict the hours.
If blaze orange was included in those extended hours it would, as I stated above, significantly reduce the chances of a fatality & reduce the chance of the DEC again restricting hunting hours..
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well, here comes my point........any serious turkey hunter is in the woods WELL before legal hunting hours, and has probably called to and located a Tom before as well...........technically the second you start calling and have that Tom respond to you, you've started "hunting" him, have you not? does DEC see it that way? at this point in time I think not, much like they are well aware that people set up to deer hunt before hours and leave after hours.....and you think they would make blaze orange optional in turkey season? hahaha, doubt it.
Where did I say it would be illegal to set up before sunrise of leave after sunset? I'm only saying that if you were caught in your stand with a loaded gun after hours you could be written a ticket & good luck with the judge. If you admitted to having a loaded gun sitting on stand after sundown during deer season I don't think your argumants would hold up in court.
Me personaly I don't care one way or the other. It's none of my business. If you are hunting after sundown you know it.
That's all that matters unless you get caught. Then there may be consiqueces.
Not the same thing, but I was in court fror traffic ticket when a guy was there answering a loaded gun in the vehicle charge. That's a misdemeanor, not a violation. A whole nuther ball of wax. Yes they had to "prove" the case, but he had to spend the time to go to court & it was his word against the DEC officer. the judge didn't throw it out.
The point is you might still have to take the time to go to court & if it's your word against the LEO, good luck with that.
Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty?
See above.
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Ok I have a masters degree from SU in forensic Nursing. I am a psych nurse practitioner with over 20 years of experience. I make those diagnosis every day and treat people who do not think they are nuts either. Next question
I do not think you are nuts because you disagree. I think you are nuts because you think everyone should agree with you and you think you can protect us from ourselves and make more laws no one wants or needs. Like I said you do what you want and I will do what I want. it is not your job to tell me how I can do it
Ever hear of "discussion"? That's when "mature" people air differing views. It is you that are making judgments concerning my judgement, lack of common sense & mental state because I don't agree with you, not me. I am merely pointing out your (obvious) arrogance in doing so. So now I'm atacking you?
If you can't discuss differing viewpoints with the adults, perhaps you should refrain. It would seem that by tour own standards you might be the one that's "nuts".
As far as missing things? I could make a whole list of points I have raised that you refuse to discuss.
Your posts are longer relevant so I'm done responding to your childish rants.
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do you turkey hunt?
I used to & yes I wore full camo. Being shot with #4 shot at 30 yds is a whole lot less likely to be fatal than being shot at 50 or 150yds with a 30-06. That's one of the reasons shot size is limited for turkey hunting. Most of the turkey hunters shot are "stalking" a bird. I don't do that as the only real chance of success when stalking a turkey is that of being shot.
I once had an imbecile run right up to me after he busted a bird I was calling. I had relocated after the bird spooked & the guy trots up in front of where I was standing, dropped to his knees 15 yds in front of me & starts calling. "Thanks a lot a$$hole, you busted my bird" I said. The guy was young. He had the Ray Eye handkerchief thing over his face goin'.. He became so unglued that he started hyperventilating. I had called the bird about 1/4 mile up the ridge & it hung up so close I could hear his feathers rattle when he gobbled. After about 10 minutes I heard him gobble way down in the hollow. I got up & moved in wide open hardwoods about 10 steps & stopped. That's when yoyo came trotting up.
Turkeys see color, deer do not. Blaze orange would be a handicap to a turkey hunter. For a deer hunter it isn't or at least far less so.
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man you are nuts. All I am saying is if you want to wear it or force people to do so on your land, that is your business. if I choose not to on my land, that is none of your business. And again we have no more fatalities than any other state and less than most. Certainly I can not say definitely that thee guy in the church group would have been shot wearing BO. But you can not say he would not have been either. I am saying and read it this time, if he had been hunting legally and not trying to fill a tag he did not have ob him and it was before you could sign tags over, he more than likely would have identified a target before firing at movement. If you want to condone that behavior and say the guy who got shot was at fault when he was in brush so thick that he probably would not have seen orange, then you have the problem not me. If they had been obeying the laws and obeying the safe gun handling rules such as know your target and beyond, both would be alive today.
So now you are qualified to make judgement on my mental state just because I don't agree with you?
WOW! Perhaps you would be so kind as to post your degree so I could take you seriously?
I don't "force" people to wear orange when they hunt on my property. They have a choice to not hunt on my property. They have always been glad to oblige W/O any complaint.
As a matter of fact, now that I think of it, all of them have had the "common sense" to wear blaze orange when I have hunted with them on public land. And I might add, W/O any mention from me.
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Wouldn't bother me in the least. Again. What law section are you basing your opinion on?
The law that says it's illegal to hunt deer after sundown. By your logic there would be no way to inforce the law unless the DEC officer actually saw you take a shot at a deer after sundown. Even then you should be given leeway if you don't have a watch that is synchronized with the DEC & the officer had to prove that it was a deer you shot at. As long as you missed, there would be no proof right?
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As has already been pointed out, all "bore sighting" is intended to do is get you on the paper at 25yds, 100yds if the paper is big enough..
Way back 47 years ago when I started deer hunting, we didn't have "bore sighting colometers", or at least they weren't common..
If it's a bolt gun you can bore sight it at the range if you have sandbags to keep the gun steady while you adjust the scope. I use a vise on my back porch work bench & place the 4"orange target 25yds out in the yard.
Remove the bolt, wedge the gun in sandbags as you peer down the bore. The target is really pretty easy to center in the bore, just like a peep sight. Wedge the sandbags so that the target is centered in the bore.
Lift your head & look through the scope. If the cross hairs are anywhere near the center of the target, just shoot the paper at 25yds.
Even without bore sighting, if the reticle is centered in the adjusments & the rear mount is likewise, or clamp on mounts are used. The bullet will probably be on paper at 25 yds.
Remember though, to move the POI 1" at 25yds you need to adjust the equivelent of 4" at 100. If it is 2" high at 25yds it will be off the paper at 100 unless you have a BIG paper.
No mater how you do it shoot at 25yds. Sighted in at 25yds will be about 2 1/2" at 100. After you get sighted in at 25yds fine tune it at 100. using the center of 3 shot groups.
Depending on the cartridge 2 1/2" high at 100 yds will be about 3" high at 150 & drop from there, propably crossing the POA again at 200-250yds again, depending on the caliber.
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So the burden of proof is on us to prove we aren't breaking the law? Can you show me a section of the Environmental Conservation law or even NY Penal that says you can not be in the woods with a loaded weapon after sunset or before sunrise.
If the DEC officer catches you in your stand with a loaded gun 10 minutes after his watch says it's time to stop hunting, try telling the judge that your watch is slow or that you are hunting coyotes.
Let me know how that works.
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ok, I'll bite....I'd give myself a little leeway with shooting times, if we took 20 watches and checked times there would probably be quite a variance in times, and I don't have a smart phone or GPS and the last time I checked they aren't required......15 minutes? that's pushing it...you should already be walking out of the woods by then......and the problem is, not the shooting times, but the fact that "Trophy Buck" has to be "bait" that's thrown out there to catch everyone.
Page 80 in your hunting laws handbook has a chart & it's you responsibility to have a watch or some other time piece.
Have a DEC officar walk up to you in the stand when you have a loaded gun & it's 10 minutes after sunset, try to convence him you are hunting coyotes.
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First off I wear orange during gun. If I happen to be in a stand without it, my vest is wrapped around the tree I am in. But let me ask you this. If we looked up numbers over the last few years and compared injuries and fatalities from tree stands and compare it to shooting accidents and the number is higher than the shootings, should we start lobbying to ban tree stand hunting? I mean if we can just save one life, wouldn't it be worth it?
How many of those tree stand incidents involved a second person? Therein lies the BIG difference.
Aside from that, how many of those injuries were people that understood & used PROPER fall restraint?
To me, not using a good fall restrain in a portable tree stand is a lot more foolish than hunting in big game gun season in full camo. I was always afraid of falling asleep & toppling out of the stand. I always made sure that my restaint kept my shoulders above the platform if I fell. Hanging from a poor restaint is often fatal too. I don't use portable stands anymore, too old & fat.
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From the link below.
Hunters who wear hunter orange are seven times less likely to be shot. For example, during the past ten years, not one person who was wearing hunter orange was mistaken for game and killed in New York. On the contrary, big game hunters who were involved in firearm related incidents were not wearing hunter orange.
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can color blind people see blaze orange? and if not, and the law was passed, would they be exempt or unable to get a license?.......any thoughts?
No, they can't see it as orange, but they also can't distinguise red from green but they still get driver's licenses.
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In all fairness Wildcat, There is also no evidence or proof that those accidents would have been avoided if BO had been worn. We just can't make that correlation in the past tense.
Well if you play Russian Roulette there is no proof that a bullet is under the hammer either since it's only a 1 in 6 chance.
Take all of the fatalities where a hunter was mistaken for a deer & compare the odds of those that were wearing blaze orange against those that were not.
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Common sense and BO go along way together. To answer you question I have in 30 years (in the southern zone) only ran into a handful of hunters that didn't wear blaze orange.
Seems BO is taken seriously in NYS.
Not in the North country it isn't. Aside from a co-worker & his dad & ANYONE that gets to hunt on my place, I have NEVER seen blaze orange on a hunter up here.
Blaze orange? It's it's a damned "librul" conspiracy just like science & evolution! The Gubmint wants you to wear it so they can spot & round up the gun luvin hunters to place them in FEMA death camps.
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I know the instance with the church group very well. I know the officer who investigated. Know why he was shot? They started the day with one saying I have a doe permit anyone see a doe shoot it. Which is illegal. This heightens the intensity and competition as well as is illegal. The shot was fired. if I was to hunt with my son or any other person in a group, I know where they are. In the first instance if the shooter had been hunting legally it never would have happened since he was not carrying a dmp and did no tidentify a target. he saw movement and shot. Please give me a list of all these fatalities, since I hav elived and hunted in 6a all my life and I can recall 3 in about 35 years, which is still too many but saying several is a stretch. I own land in 6c and I have hunters all around me and have yet to be shot at. You rely way too much on orange and not enough on common sense.
1st of all, what makes you so damned arrogant to make a judgement on what I rely on or my level of common sense or lack thereoff? Some may argue that your stance on blaze orange & some of your logic defies common sense so get off your high horse.
Most traffic fatalities in minor crashes are because the ocupants weren't wearing seat belts. In 90% of those accidents they were breaking the law in some respect aside from ignoring the seat belt law. By your logc, since most of those deaths were caused by breaking the law, seat belt laws are not effective in the thousands upon thousands of fatalities prevented by mandatory seat belt use.
Are you saying without a doubt that blaze orange would not have prevented that church group fatality? If blaze orange prevented only 1/2 of hunting fataliies wouldn't that be worth the small inconvenience? To the best of my knowledge there has never been a deer hunting fataity in New York state involving the victim being mistaken for a deer while wearing blaze orange.
Deer hunting fatalites around the Massena area just from memory. 1999 River Road in Norfork. The church group fatality I mentioned. 2004 a co-worker of mine shot & killed his uncle. The father/son incident near Canton I mentioned. A few years back the Deshaw fatality near Landon Bridge. I heard the police go by my house on that one. He was shot dead center just below the neck, right about where the orange vest would have been. Mr Deshaw did drywall finish work for me in 2003.
Just from memory, that's 5 that I can remember in less than 15 years, 3 of those between '99 & '04. I'm sure I have probably missed some. So yeah, I think that means several. But the idea that blaze orange would have prevented at least 2 or 3 of those fatalities, if not all, is not sufficient enough for you to submit to wearing a blaze orange hat.
You know something else? You pick & choose what you respond to. You avoid questions that you don't want to answer just like any other narrow minded type that has a knee jerk reaction to anything different than what he believes.
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Well as I have said come to my area, where people have brains enough to know what they are shooting at. A group of 8 all hunt my property and more hunt adjacent properties. I have yet to see orange. No one has been shot or even shot at. I am so glad I do not have to wear orange to feel safe when I am hunting. I have said and will say again, it is not my job to make you safer. Identify your target, do not use your scope to do so and hunt during legal hours legally. Seems pretty simple to me. Every year this same bunch if topics come up over 1 or 2 incidents. I mean the only one so far this year, a moron shot at a deer lying on a cart. I guess deer lie down and move around in the woods. The first comment was who fault was it I wonder of the guy was wearing orange, as if it was his fault he got shot. Sad the way the mind set of "hunters" has been molded by the big companies who sell all the gimmicks Deer need names and 160 inches on their heads to be shooters and you need every new toy that comes out to be successful. A lot of supposed hunters have made a ton of money selling all their products to make you a better hunter.
Since I moved to the North country (6-A) there have been several fatalities. During the late '90s, early '00s, there was a shooting fatality around the Massena area almost every year. NEVER were the victims wearimg blaze orange. In one instance a church group was conducting a deer drive & one of the standers shot one of the drivers. IMO, that was just plain stupidity for people to conduct a drive W/O at least the drivers being clad in a blaze orange vest & hat as a minimum.
Are you saying that there is a magical increase in safety south of route 11 that doesn't exit North of it?
In one instance a father killed his son & was exonerated because he convinced the jury that he had shot at a deer jumping a fence & his son was beyond the deer along the same fence. Other evidence suported his claim. Blaze orange might have let that father know his son was in the line of fire.
Lately, I hunt public land in 6-C also & I wear a blaze orange hat.
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Why would the time have any bearing on when a weapon is loaded or unloaded?
An unloaded weapon shows you are not hunting, a loaded one leaves you open to suspicion.
Get caught "in the field" with a loaded weapon before sunrise or after sunset by a DEC officer & you will find out that in the eyes of the law, you are "hunting".
I think the same applies to a nocked arrow.
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Another thing. How many of you can honestly say that if you were watching a trophy buck waiting for him to take one more step or change angle as the exact time of sunset lapsed, you woiuld take a shot 5 or even 10 minutes later when the opportunity presented itself? Would you reaaly pass even though there was plenty of light?
As far as I can see, the restrictions on some of the best times to kill a mature buck are far more restrictive than requiring somone to wear an orang hat.
I find it extremely interesting that there is not a single response to the question above.
What that seems to indicate is that most would take the shot after sundown & probably don't unload their rifles & stop hunting the moment that sundown occurs. On the other end, how many wait until official sunrise to load their weapon?
The same scenerio would apply if one saw a trophy buck sneaking by 15 muniute before official sunrise. How many would watch it dsappear W/O shooting if there was ample light?
So, I can see some (ill conceived) logic to the resistance to wearing blaze orange in a trade off for the extra hour at the best times. Why give in to mandatory blaze orange if you are stretching the hours anyway right?
We are probably never going to see the change to legalizing what many are doing anyway because most politicains would be wringing the hands over the ill perceived increase in fatalities. If we throw them a bone by accepting mandatory reasonable blaze orange, they would be far more likely to make the change.
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In the thick woods maybe, with iron sights yes. With good optics there is still plenty of light on all but the worst conditions.
In open hardwoods of fields there is ample light.
Simple solution, if there isn't enough light to positively identfy the target & see your sights, don't shoot.
it's silly to establish an arbitrary sunup or sundown limit when under all but the worst conditions there is ample light.
I don't think there is enough light to be shooting during that time, especially on dreary days.
I always wear some blaze orange during the gun season.
In the thick woods maybe, with iron sights yes. With good optics there is still plenty of light on all but the worst conditions.
In open hardwoods of fields there is ample light.
Simple solution, if there isn't enough light to positively identfy the target & see your sights, don't shoot.
To me, it's silly to establish an arbitrary sunup or sundown limit when under all but the worst conditions there is ample light.
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Ive been hunting deer for 20 years and up until last year gun season meant shotguns, Now it means rifle
I have a model 94 winchester 30-30 and im using a 170 gr. Winchester soft nose, I shot a doe last week and she didnt act like she was hit just kind of looked up at me, So i shot her again, again no real response so i shot her a 3rd time and this time she took off and ran about 45 yds before piling up,When i got down and walked over to her she had all 3 shots right behind her shoulder and when i field dressed her back at the house all 3 shots were within inches of each other and the rounds broke 4 ribs, So my question is there a better 30-30 round to use, Something with a little more knock down power, maybe the bullet mushrooms more, Honestly i know nothing about rifle rounds other than you shouldnt use a FMJ, Any help would be great thanks,
Deer usualy aren't "knocked down" unless a major skeletal component is hit of the central nervous system.
I have had lung hits centered just behind the point of the shoulder & above the heart drop them in their tracks, but just as often they ran a short distance.
Heart shot deer have always run a short distance.
You might get more explosive expansion from a 150gr RN bullet. More Mv will cause more rapid expansion thus more energy transfer. The LeveRevolution bullets are only an advantage at longer ranges.
I hand load .308 160gr LeveRevolution bullets in my 30/40 Krag @ 2500fps. That gives me adequate energy out to way beyond iron sight ranges & shoots +-or- 3" to aout 230yds.
Not Bad for a Home Made Rifle With a Military Surplus Barrel
in Guns and Rifles and Discussions
Posted · Edited by wildcat junkie
What ammo do you shoot in it? American ammo is pathetic but European stuff is full power. Cabelas used to carry Sellier & Bellot.
Remington-170gr bullets @ 2400fps compared to Sellier & Bellot-196gr @ 2600fps.
If you reload you can get a bit more out of it W/O pushing the envelope.