New person from central NY asking about mountain lion sightings on 81 between Castle Creek and Whitney point

[lionsandtigers]

I posted this in another thread on this site but not sure anyone will see it so I am repeating it here:

I have posted this before on other sites but will repeat it here. I will first let you know that I am not a flake. I am a well educated researcher who lacks the imagination to conjure up stories. I am also not a big nature person. I don't go out of my way to spot wildlife. I did not know a thing about mountain lions or any other large cats-nor did I know there was any controversy about them- a year ago. I am writing this to let people know about it but won't defend my observations to those who challenge the veracity of my report. There is no point to doing so.

In November I was heading south on 81. Soon after the Whitney Point exit I saw something in the distance on the left shoulder of the road that I could not make sense of. I thought it could be some large stuffed animal/toy but very large. I made no sense to me. As i got closer I still could not understand what it was because it did not coincide with anything I'd ever seen before. It was lying on its side with its 4 legs facing the road and the spine facing the opposing traffic. In color it was similar to a red cat (which is really orangish tan in color). It had a long rope like tail that did not taper (all domestic cats I've had had tails that tapered towards the end). The tail was long and it extended around the legs, in a semicircle) toward mid torso. I think the legs were drawn up a bit-rather than fully extended. It had what I processed as a very heavy looking round head with some dark marking that reminded me of raccoon markings-as if they were written onto the face. I later realized what probably gave the appearance of heaviness was the density of the fur. It was a very pretty/sweet face. The face was round with an almost double chin look to it-not oblong like the mountain lion pictures I have seen. It was also about 3-4 times the size of a domestic cat.

I was on my way to work and would have been in trouble had I stopped. But, I did call the police to report it once I left the highway. I later called to talk with the dispatcher who said she was so curious about it she went back during her lunch hour but it was gone. She speculated someone picked it up. In retrospect that made no sense either because I would have assumed she would have dispatched a crew to pick it up when I called-in which case it would obviously be gone when she got there. I asked her what she thought it was and wrote down all the animals she named. Red/tan thick but not long fur long tail. Then I started to read about them. The match was clearly a mountain lion-except that the face was round not oblong. But, young mountain lions apparently have round faces.

Since then I have been trying to figure it out. I've posted about the sighting to see if anyone else saw it. I even called taxedermy places to see if anyone brought a mountain lion in to be stuffed. I asked around to see if anyone had seen one. The only lead I got was when I googled mountain lion and Whitney Point. I found that a year earlier someone else had posted about a mountain lion sighting from 81 at Whitney point-up on the rocks. Except for all this controversy, based on the previous sighting and what I saw, the most reasonable scenario is that there was an adult mountain lion in the Whitney Point area a year earlier and the one I saw dead on the road was probably an adolescent one-maybe related. Anyway, if I were more adventurous I'd go exploring those rocks between castle creek and Whitney point but I am chicken. I have, incidentally, talked with many people involved with the controversy about mountain lions. Twice I have stopped in at the Whitney Point rest area and asked workers there if they had seen anything. It is a very odd thing because prior to the sighting I could not have cared less about what is roaming around out there. Now I want to know the story behind what I saw.

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[lionsandtigers]

Hello. Do you travel on I-81 between Pa and Syracuse? Let me know!

[lionsandtigers]

Hello. Do you travel on I-81 between Pa and Syracuse? Let me know! anyone want to meet up by Whitney point and look for tracks?

[BigRed44]

This is very interesting to say the least. I'm suprised people haven't jumped in with opinions on this matter.

I don't know what to believe. I have never seen one myself but just in the last 6 months i have heard from 4 different people claiming to have seen a black cougar. All sightings were within 60 miles of each other. We have game cameras set up in all locations that they were seen but no luck getting photo's.

Could have just been black bears or the neighbors dog or who knows what. But still, interesting.

[BizCT]

If you were really so interested you would have taken a pic with your cell phone. Better yet, you would have at least stopped. Not sure how you got such a detailed description from a moving vehicle while you were driving. Sounds like a coyote or bobcat to me.

[lionsandtigers]

To Biz-R-OWorld, I wasn't interested. This is hard to explain. As I approached, I saw a large red/tan/orange thing on the side of the road. I thought initially it must be like a large doll/stuffed animal or something like that because nothing fit my, how to put this, cognitive schema? It was visible to me very far from when I finally passed it. It was mid morning when there is not much traffic. I wasn't going very fast and I toyed with stopping but was indecisive and knew I was running late and would have problems if I was further delayed. I am not a hunter and I didn't know much about mountain lions. I had no idea what I had seen. Once I got off 81 I called police and reported what I saw-figuring they would pick it up and I'd call later in the day and hear about what it was. well when I called later in the day the dispatcher said she was so curious about it she went during her lunch time and it was gone. Now that made little sense to me. I called her midmorning. Wouldn't she have sent a crew out to pick it up-at which point obviously it would be gone? Would she have simply waited a couple of hours without sending a crew so she could get a look at it? So, after she said she went herself and it was gone, I asked her what it could be. Note, I did not tell her that I saw a mountain lion because I had no idea what they were. All I knew was that it was a red cat looking thing with a long rope like taill that swung around the legs of the thing to about the mid torso. I thought that the tail had gravel mixed into it but now realize that the tails may be black-so what I thought was dirt and gravel may have just been the color of the tail tip. The face was very round. Regular cat like ears. Then the face had some markings on it that were racoon like (but the face was round and not like a raccoon at all). So, the dispatcher listed a bunch of possible animals while I wrote them down...and she mainly listed animals that would be a similar color. Her list surprised me because I did not know any of the animals on her list existed outside a zoo or Africa. So, then I took the list and started to google (using images) each one. The only one that had all the features and that actually looked like what I saw was mountain lion. So, it was not a matter of me seeing something out of the corner of my eye and jumping to the conclusion it must be a mountain lion. I wouldn't have cared what it was as long as I could identify it. There was one aspect of it that did not seem to be correct. The face was very very round and it had a kind of double chin-of like a slight bulge round the very round face. When I look at pictures of mountain lions, the actually don't have a round face-it is sort of elongated with the snout being sort of boxy or rectangular-so it would not have that buldge around its neck because the face would be too narrow. This is hard to describe. Anyway, I did not take picture because never in my wildest dreams would I think that I would find that something I saw was deemed impossible to see by some people. I figured I'd call the police and they'd pick it up, or even if they didn't they be able to say "it was an X" And that would be it. Who knew there was controversy about what sort of animals are roaming out there. Now I know. But, if you told me a year ago I'd be writing some long post to someone convinced I did not see what I saw, and that I'd be writing it on a hunting discussion site I'd have thought you crazy. Anyway, I have no reason to lie and I don't really fit the scenario that has been described all over-that is of someone who jumps to the conclusion they saw a mountain lion but probably saw a bob cat which moved too quickly to see clearly. I may have missed details of what I saw because I was moving-so there is information that I dont' have-but I am not adding detail-long thick tail that doesn't taper and goes mid torso, very round face with markings reminiscent of a raccoon but not a raccoon (not sure exactly why the markings reminded me of raccoon markings except maybe the black color), tan/red/orange with a thick heavy look to it-I think the thickness/density of the fur made me think of a heaviness to it. The fur on the tail was longish but not long and bushy like a long hair cat. More like one of those red tails you used to be able to get at fairs-I guess the fur is just very dense.

I have no reason to make anything up. This is really actually bothersome to me. I know others had to have seen it too. I wish I could find some of those people. I have talked to the person who saw the cat a year earlier but nobody who has seen one more recently.

This is what I posted at the time on various web sites and the other poster's post is there too: (also, this is November of 2011:

In November I was driving from Syracuse to Binghamton at 10:30 am. Soon after I passed the Whitney Point exit, but well before Castle Creek, I saw a very large dead cat on the left shoulder of the road. The face was rounded-a cross between a raccoon kind of face and a domestic cat.-sweet and round. Height wise it was about the size of a St. Barnard but it was thin and it build was more similar to, say a Great Dane. It had a very long tail that had fur that was straight (not fuzzy or curly) and the tail was rope-like and it curved around to the front of the animal. The legs were long. The color was very close to the red you would see on a domestic red cat-solid color not spotted and not merely tan with redish tint-but clearly orange red. I would say its back would have been about 2-3 feet off the ground had it been standing. It was thin and the fur on it was not fuzzy but short. I was traveling at 65mph and by the time I had processed what I saw it was too late to easily pull over. I was late too. I called the police (I think Castle Creek but can't recall-maybe Broome county sheriff- not sure.) and the dispatcher showed interest. She said she would have someone check it out. I called her later that day. She said she was so curious about it that she went herself during her lunch hour but by then it was gone. She said someone probably took it for the fur. Then she started listing the kind of animal it could have been.

Now, I know nothing about wild animals but was surprised by the animals she listed because they were the sort of animal I assumed existed only in places like Africa (I've got the suburban NY-view of the world) or the zoo. I began to google the various animals she suggested to compare to what I saw. What I saw was clearly most similar to a mountain lion. But, the face was round and did not have the long muzzle that the pictures show. So, I think it was probably young-although the pictures of the young mountain lions suggest that they are not solid in color. Maybe there is an adolescent period when the body becomes solid color and the face is still round?

It was only after I looked at pictures of all kinds of animals that I started to read about Mountain lions in NY. I had no idea there was any controversy about whether they exist or not. (I add this because I have no vested interested in proving that they do or do not exist) I did not know they ever existed in NY. In fact, I would have been quite surprised to hear that they existed in this country at all..anywhere. So, when the dispatcher mentioned things like mountain lions and panthers I was very surprised. I posted a description of what I had seen on Topix in the hope someone else had seen it and could let me know what it was. All I got was a few snide comments. Then I started to google more seriously because it began to bother me that I could not figure this out. At that point I found this post

"05-05-2011, 06:48 PM #1

Crokit

crokit

Join Date: Dec 2010

Posts: 158

Mountain lion sighting

First, let me state that I have all my faculties, excellent eye sight, and am not given to exaggerations.

Today, while traveling south on Interstate 81, between Syracuse and Binghamton, I saw a Mountain Lion / Cougar/Panther, pick your noun. !! 100% positive, absolutely no doubt. There is ZERO chance that it was anything else. The only other thing it could have possibly been { other than a live mountain lion/cougar/panther } is a full body mount of a mountain lion/cougar/panther and someone pulling a prank. It was less than 100yds off the West side of the road, sitting on top of a section of rock/cliff that the highway had been cut through. It was sitting on it's haunches, leaning forward, ears forward, looking down onto/across the highway. It was about 30-40 feet above the highway. Just before the " Castle creek 1 mile " highway sign.

When I screamed " holy F%^K, a mountain lion, scaring the S#$T out my buddy who was driving almost lost control at 75 mph.

An absolutely beautiful animal, well muscled, excellent specimen. Up until now, when ever I've seen reports of sightings, I've taken them with a grain of salt. No more!

Anyone know of any other recent reported sightings in that area?

Wldnerness: Can you put me in touch with any of the state Dec/Rangers/etc from that area?"

And my post on Topix was as follows:

Justwondering

East Syracuse, NY

1

huge red fox, moutain lion or lynx on I-81 (S) near Castle Creek

Nov 9, 2011

Did any see a dead huge cat like animal on the southbound side of I-81 about a mile closer to Syracuse then the exit for Castle Creek. It was on the left lying an its side, obviously dead and huge. If you did see it, or heard someone else talking about it, what was it? It looked like it had a body like a mountain lion, a long tail with long fur-not bushy and a face that was rounder like a lynx.Its color was pretty uniformly red-not mixed or strips or anything like that. I was moving too fast and, once I had processed what I saw, I had gone too far to see it. Apparently someone picked it up, probably for its fur, because it was gone soon thereafter. I saw it at around 10:40am Tuesday morning. If you did not see it but are familiar with the wild life around there, any ideas? Any information would be appreciated.

What do you think? These two sightings are at identical places. I do not believe that they are both mirages. Also, if the one I saw was young(I'dsay it was the size of a great dane-maybe a little shorter but thin like a dane rather than like a , say, St. Bernard) , it would not have been as visible to a driver on I-81 6 months earlier. The one I saw was not so big that it would have been very visible to drivers if it were on the top of a hill. That means that the one I saw could have been the adolescent offspring of the one seen by the earlier poster. If so, maybe there is a den nearby. I know exactly where I saw the dead animal so a wildlife person or ranger could easily investigate. If the other poster saw the parent in May and I saw a dead adolescent one in November I bet that there is one that has set up a resident in the area. What do you think? Thanks

[lionsandtigers]

sorry about the gray shading. I copied and pasted and that appeared.

[lionsandtigers]

big Red 44, I just googled Newfield. You are not far from this area. You could explore it easily. Another hunter said he'd keep an eye out and take pics if he sees tracks. I am sure that there was a resident lion. The other guy who saw it a year earlier was very credible. i talked with him on the phone. It was almost exactly a year earlier- at the same place (well, very close-between the same 2 exits). Let me know if anyone is interested in exploring this. thank you