Buckstopshere

Sam: It's apparent that you do not hunt Northcentral Pa. or you would not make a comment like that. NY antler: "Manageable level." What a crock. We are talking one buck per square mile! Do the math. The Pa. game commission has calculated take numbers after the season...like NY. We know the square miles of the WMUs. Divide the take into the square miles... maps... Are you talking about that old, un-updated QDM map? That's laughable. You guys have your minds made up. And why believe me and the organized Pa. sportsmen and John Eveland. You drank the Koolaid. There is no changing your minds. Bon appetit.

www.acsl-pa.org If you care to read about how the Pa. deer herd in the Northcentral part of the Commonwealth went down the tubes, check out this link. It seems pretty irrefutable.

Sam: Just because somebody has a degree does not make them all-knowing and can't be bought. And Gary Alt was a hatchet man, did his job and like all hatchet men...was paid and given the golden parachute. If you hunted Pa. you would see that the hervbaceous cover and mast crops can support many times more deer than are here. Two other factors: one is the addition of mego..macro food plots...acres of turnips, clover, brassicas...and one deer. Also, the mild winters have taken out of the equation any deer kill mortality. No, what is driving the issue from my perspective is two things...one is elitism from our brother deer hunters who think that they have a higher plane of ethics than somebody who hunts because they need the meat, and two, the timber interests that are concerned with the way that deer shape the future of the forest. Pa. hunters got sold a bill of goods by being promised that AR's and the necessary depletion of the doe herd (to let the bucks grow even bigger horns...) that "Joe Hunter" would have his day and see a trophy buck. I drank the KoolAid too. I thought, let's see, let's give it a try...we can always go back. But the timber interests and the stubborn trophy hunters are standing in the way of going back. And what I fear... not so much for me,...but for the young Pa. hunters...they are not going to go out there and sit for days and not see a deer. They are going to quit and get on their computers....

The few Pa. Hunters that are pro-AR that I know have a lot of time and wherewithal. That's my point. It is a good question to ask about the young hunters coming into our sport that see deer hunting as first, a way to put good meat on the table and feed their families...maybe because a long time ago...I was that young man.

Right you are Joe. But all the regular guys I know are deeply dissappointed with the deer situation in Northcentral Pa. to say the least. So the vote is a landslide against! There are a few who have a lot of acreage tied up, huge food plots that suck in the deer from all over, especially in poor mast years... and the wherewithal to hunt the whole season...they have big smiles. But the regular guy who has to work, has a family to raise and not thousands of dollars to dump into food plots or can afford a big lease payment each month...is getting the short end of the stick. AR's and elietism seem to be walking hand-in-hand and I like to think that what should make the difference out in the woods is who is the best hunter and who is the best shot. But I am old-fashioned with old fashioned values.

Well said Single_Shot. I live on the border and have hunted Pa. all my life too. Deer management in North Central Pa. is a disaster...since Gary Alt and the AR's came in...just look at the buck contests at the Potter Enterprise or Ackley's as a rule of thumb...the top bucks are no bigger than they ever were, but what is striking is the drop in the take and the huge amount of dissatisfaction. When I was young, we all wanted to go to Pa. to hunt deer. Now the Pa. hunters come to NY...if they can afford the non-resident tag! I love hunting Pa. and remember when it was good. I plan on hunting it again this year, but will hunt the border hoping the bucks will spill over from NY where there is no AR. My heart goes out to the Pa. hunters and hope that someday, the PGC will change and allow the deer population to build back up. Fact: The last two years, the deer population in 3A and 2G is lower in bucks per square mile than many of the Units in the Adirondacks! I wrote about the comparison between NY and Pa. a couple years ago. IT's gotten worse! http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/outdoors/x1146475392/Deer-tales-NY-and-Pa-two-side-by-side-management-plans

My two boys still hunt. One will be here for the rut.(First week of November.)

"So for all this foolishness...one thing I hope came through...All you mentors out there...make sure to call processors ahead of time...freeze water...buy game bags...plenty of wipes and make sure those kids know well in advance there is going to be tad unpleasant smell...something long time hunters forget..." Now that's what I call the important stuff...real stuff the kids will have to deal with. I hope the deer processors are all on board so that the successful Yutes will be able to enjoy eating and enjoy their first deer kill...now that's important. I worry about a mentor and successful young hunter with a dead deer, warm temps and no where to go!

And here I am...I've been called a lot worse things than a fool. I think we take a lot of this rule/season changing...like this new "Yute Season", as a negative thing because we hate change. We love our traditions and hate to see things change...but I think as hunters we need to embrace change...we always have, and welcome youth into this evolving sport. I am an old guy. I have seen/lived/experienced tremendous change. From my recurves and long bows to compounds. All things considered...is the Yute Hunt perfect? Heck no! Would every one of us do it differently? Of course! But from that 8-mile high level...we need to get youths in the woods and enjoying nature, participate in that life-altering experince... Let nature and the hunt work on them like it did to all of us...will there be collateral damage? Absolutely. Will people take advantage and poach? Yes. So? We've always had to deal with that element. But let's clean it up and fine tune the Yute Hunt as we always have. In the big picture...that 8,000 number could exponentially grown. We have to pull together and support this Youth Season primarily so we don't give the wrong message to "the yutes." The time for parsing and sniping is over. The first-ever New York State Youth Deer Hunt is on and let's each and every one of us make sure that we support the Future of Hunting. Look, there is nobody that loves his quiet time in the woods bow hunting...than me.

Doc: I got confirmation from a DEC spokesperson a few minutes ago that "Per you inquiry below, yes, DEC issued an official press release announcing that the first-ever Youth Firearms Season will take place this Columbus Day Weekend; October 6, 7, and 8; 2012. The DEC website is being updated accordingly." So I was right, the website hadn't been updated. So anyone following the first url in the release will stil see the conflicting message (i.e. the youth season is on...the youth season is off...) until they update the site. But "the Yute" season is on!

The world of crafting laws and legislation is not like deadlines in the real world that we live in. Don't forget, our system has been created by over 200 years of lawyers tweaking the system...there is always wiggle room. And in my opinion, in some ways that is not a bad thing. Say what you want, but I think the majority of hunters won on this one, not the special interests...and that's a good thing! So as crazy as it may sound...the "system" as flawed and confusing as it may seem...worked.

Grow: The way I read it is that the Gov. and the Commish are on the same page...remember, if he signs the crossbow bill, the last sentence on it kills the Youth Hunt. That rider was attached by Sen. Sweeney, who has evidently backed off the push to kill the Youth Hunt. The Gov. and he Commish are both in the Executive Branch and pulling in the same direction...it is the legislature that was influenced by the special interests (i.e. certain bow hunting groups and individuals that do not want youths "ruining" their deer hunting seasons. ) My guess is that for the DEC to correctly administrate the Youth Hunt...the waiting BS is over. It now is a done deal. Can't wait until the last minute or it would be a total cluster...some would say this is "last minute" as it is. (For not only the hunters to make plans, but for the regulators in the DEC to get geared up for it, many facets they have to deal with.

Doc: Sure enough...more mixed signals from the DEC on this. I called them about it and am waiting response. My guess is, the mentoring page with the Q. and A. was created before the most recent Commissioner's policy statement.

www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/46245.html. Check out this link....looks like the DEC is ramping up for the Youth Season...finally, and...as predicted.

He's right this year...the first week of November is going to be rockin'! But this year...since we have an Oct. 1 opener...what about the early rut...? You know...that first rut spike when a few does become receptive? I think that first week of October...in just a few weeks is going to be surprising with rut action...I think the Youth Hunt is timed just right for some kids to catch some whopper bucks with their girl friends! I bet there are going to be some amazing photos of kids with tankers...and that will be the greatest sell to other kids!

It's difficult to get a good photo of a great wild whitetail. 'Course it's even tougher to kill one. So, everybody cuts corners...its business...selling images of whitetail bucks...but when you get a good photo or video clip of a wild good buck...there is a lot of satisfaction and I think there there should be a lot of viewer interest from hunters who are tired of all the phony, canned deer-porn.

Right. Youth hunters will be mentored, it is just that a lot of bow hunters I talk to are still confused at the reality of the Youth Hunt and are not planning on taking basic sensible precautions...like wearing blaze.

But beyond all the crossbow talk...there will be plenty of time for that...it looks like the Youth Season is close to being a reality...that is in a month, the first weekend in October, statewide, youth deer hunters will be shooting at deer while bowhunters are in the woods. Think about it. Bowhunters in trees or in ground blinds...young hunters with rifles and shotguns hunting deer for the first time. IMO it is important for everyone to get the word out so that our first Youth Deer Season is a safe and successful one.

Southern crow call: "Cawww! Cawww! Cawww!...ya alll!"

A couple years ago while we were spring gobbler hunting we watched a couple crows literally follow a hen turkey along a hedgerow between two fields. The crows hopped along from tree to tree, almost above the turkey. The hen visited her nest and the moment she left, two crows dropped down into the nest for the egg. We checked the nest out and saw that there were only two eggs in the nest, under leaves. And there were some broken egg shells. At first we thought the crows missed a couple eggs...but when we thought about it... I wonder if the crows were smart enough to leave some eggs in the nest to keep the hen turkey from abandoning the nest, that way they could have turkey eggs for breakfast every morning? I also have seen crows in my backyard chased by robins. Crows hunt bird nests...who has not seen them chased by robins or red-winged black birds? The crow population has exploded at the expense of other birds. Shoot a crow, save 100 song birds.

Thank you! Hopefully the older ones will still be around in three weeks!

I was hustling to my stand in the dark one morning in Pa. and cut across the corner of cornfield and in the dark, about five feet away was a small bear. Both of us jumped...he was a lot quicker and ran. I just stood there in the dark realizing...letting it sink in... I just about stepped on a bear eating corn. I learned my lesson, when cutting through a cornfield in the pre-dawn dark, give it a few feet of space.

Thank you! It's an old Bob Dylan song, "You are gona make me lonesome when you go." One of the lines...."crickets talking back and forth in rhyme." It fits...and goes into the nighttime sounds of crickets...

The nose knows. How can a bird dog point a live pheasant with another one in it's mouth on a retrieve? I think it is very difficult to fool an anmial's sense of smell, especially the older ones.

In the last couple years, does seemed to come in to the mock scrapes where I had my trail cams, pretty hard, just before the rut peaked. They don't paw the ground, but they sure like the overhanging branch!