Buckstopshere

Cool find! Always fun to find! My guess is that it is a Brewerton head, a little later than the Lamoka, but there is an overlap. One of the diagnostic aspects of Lamoka heads is their unfinished bases. Susquehanna points are mostly all made of purple-colored rhyolite (volcanic rock.) That head appears to be chert. Anyway, the head pictured is typed as much (thousands of years) earlier than the Iroquoian tradition. Iroquois points are primarily triangular and termed Madison points. All my heads, scrapers, adzes, etc. were found in the Genesee River Valley. Brewertons and Lamokas are the most common here.

Bendog: You're darn right I need the cash! Huntography: The easiest way is the call the Wellsville Daily Reporter at 585-593-5300 and say you want to get a DVD and we take your info and mail one right out to you. Or you can email me at [email protected] with your info and I will send one out to you. Thanks! I would be very interested in your comments...always learning.... ;D

Thanks. I will be anxious to get your feedback. Putting it together is a lot like deer hunting...always learning! ;D

Nice. Congratulations! That's what it's all about!

I participated in the NY bow hunter harvest survey for quite a few years...(forgot how many.) They sent me a patch for doing it. A young man who was working on the older Cornell deer hunting survey came down to my office here at the newspaper and interviewed me, asking a lot of deer-hunting-specific questions. This occurred prior to the switch from the Monday opener to the Saturday opener of the regular season and prior to the expansion of the centerfire rifle during the regular season.

Hi Doc: That's one of the great things of forums like this and other hunting forums...none of us individually, can have enough data points, but together we can maybe approach a "critical mass" that at least points towards what's going on out there. Landtrac: I rarely see twins in May, usually I stumble on a bedded fawn or two during gobbler season. This year was average with two singles...I have not seen twins yet either, but someone stopped in the office and said they saw two crossing the road behind mom. All the rest of the reports are singles from people seeing single fawns. It has been so wet here in Allegany County, coupled with the late spring, there hasn't been any first cuttings yet that I know of. Last year, it was so warm, by this time lots of first cuttings were being taken and lots of fawn sightings. But on a business trip to Rochester last week, I did notice up by Dansville, there were a couple fields that had been fresh cut. But that may be a good thing too, because a lot of fawns get killed by those big blades when the fawn drop coincides with the first cutting.

Man, it has been a tough season...finally fooled one. Got lucky with this bird and his three girlfriends, Saturday May 28th...what else - in the rain! He answered, the hens answered, and they were cutting, putting, and barking all the way in. He strutted in full display right behind them, looking at my decoy, about 20 yards off to the side. I don't know what was worse this year, the lack of gobbling, all the rain, or the biting bugs...never seen black flies and skeeters so bad! He had a nine-inch beard, one-inch spurs, and weighed 19.2 pounds on my digital bass scale.

Ha! The venison is starting to get low in the freezer already...I give up. OK. Send me your info... There goes my new arrows.... :'(

Steve: Man, you are tough! :'(

The 2011 Whitetail Rut Prediction DVD is done. All in all, I am happy with it. Here is the link to the trailer... http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/videos?vid_id=KHOMceAtRGs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/outdoors/x1495157825/Not-a-late-rut-last-deer-season?photo=0 Fawns born now would have been conceived in late October or early November (gestation period about 200 days.) Proof - Certainly not a late rut last year.

Well, when you look at other critters that time their spawning and egg laying with the Full Moon, it makes us wonder how? Bass time their spawning with the Full moon in May here in New York state. Grunions in California breed on the sands by the millions under the Full Moon, and deep sea turtles that live hundreds of miles from shore, swim in to lay their eggs under the Full Moon. Nobody really knows how it happens...Scientists talk about "clock genes" and "the internal clock." Personally, I don't think cloud cover has anything to do with it, there is no correlation between cloud cover holding up a rut and sunny days accelerating it that I am aware of. Some years I have seen the first week of November - dead. Nothing moving or happening in the deer woods, ditto with the last week of October. Years ago, I thought that the Rut always happened in the first week of November. Some years it does, but other years, the first week of November is in the middle of the infamous Lull. I agree, last year was not a "late rut" as some predicted.

Actually, just after World War II, actually in 1946, a pair of biologists working for the New York State Department of Conservation,...right here in NY state, came up with a way of determining when the rut or breeding time of whitetails was in prior fall by creating a fetal measurement scale, and then creating a base scale of fetal development, a base timeline. And that is where one of the problems occurs with measuring fetuses and determining breeding dates. Establishing "the base" is an expensive and difficult enterprise on a couple levels because it required that a number of does, that have known conception dates, be sacrificed for science. The captive doe with the known breeding date is killed on a certain date, the fetus taken out and measured. If two fetuses were in the doe, their length was averaged. (Generally a buck fawn fetus is larger than a doe fawn fetus.) And the big question is/was…the sample size large enough? How many does is enough does, killed with known conception dates to create a statistically relevant scale? The gestation period of a deer is about 200 days. Glenn H. Morton and E. L. Cheatum used a sample of 17-measured fetus to construct their size/age chart. That’s it. That’s all. Imagine how many fetuses fell in between those 17. And the growth curve of a fetus is not constant, regular, even within the same range and geography; determined by health of the doe, weather conditions, and size variations. (Deer are not all the same size any more than people are.) Think about it for a minute. Measure a human fetus...tell when it was conceived? Whoa...we know babies are different sizes... Then, there is another "fly in the ointment." Other biologists have their own fetal measurement/age study, including Hamilton, Tobin, and Moore with a southern strain of whitetail, C. Short in Michigan, and R.A. Armstrong, also right here in New York. And there is a fairly decent correlation in the measurements of the whitetail fetus. At 100 mm, or about two months along in the doe, Cheatum and Morton say the fetus was conceived 54 days prior. Armstrong says the same 100 mm. fetus is 67 days old (a difference of 13 days,) Short’s study in Michigan says it is 79 days along, and Hamilton is pretty close to Armstrong with this one, saying it was fertilized 69 days prior. So with such a variance in days, we start to scratch our heads. Look at the difference between Cheatum and Short! Over three weeks difference in a two-month old fetus. Not even close! That’s one issue. We are looking for a prediction model that can get us to around a week or so of the rut, right? If it’s off by up to three weeks, it doesn’t do us much good, does it? By the way, the sample size for the other three studies: Hamilton in 1985 opened up 64 does with known conception dates, Armstrong, 76, and Short, 21. And maybe the most significant (hinted at in the Moon Myth story,)...Measuring a 100 mm fetus can be a problematical undertaking when checking for what they call crown-to-rump measurements because the fetus are sometimes scrunched up and sometimes stretched out. The techs (biologists) that measure these fetuses can vary in their technique a bit (sometimes under physically trying situations) and therefore skew the results (human error.) So it doesn’t matter if a current study measures hundreds or even thousands of fetuses in a study. What is the sample size of the does that were pregnant and the fetuses removed? They are all put up against the same scale (or scales) determined by a questionable sample size, which has a poor correlation in agreement with other parallel studies. So how is the moon theory doing with all this talk of fetal measurement? He’s OK. He’s just beaming away. Study after study has concluded that down through the years, if you average all the fetal…but wait. How can we disprove the Moon theory, that is: that short-day breeders such as whitetails, sheep, and other creatures such as turtles, grunions and smallmouth bass all have internal clock genes timed by photoperiodic (shortening day length) but fine-tuned by the brightness and alternate darkness of the moon? As the theory goes, light affects some critters more than others by striking the heart of the pineal gland called the suprachiasmatic nucleus and releases melatonin. (Even affects humans.) And melatonin has a depressing effect on certain breeding hormones in whitetails and other short-day breeders like sheep. It is only during the dark of the moon, when the melatonin wears off that the does cycle and we notice the rut is on. It is common for sheep breeders to use melatonin-soaked sponges, inserted in an ewe to hold back estrus so that when the sponge is removed, all the ewes in the herd will cycle at the same time, after a few days. Handy little thing if you are a lamb breeder. A lot of people discredit any theory that has anything to do with the moon because of all the spooky (Halloween,) mushrooms, monsters and other myths associated with the moon. And there are lots of reasons for that... My two scents: The moon is just a big rock that reflects sunlight that slightly skews the affect of photoperiodism, that’s about it.

Thanks guys. Here is a link to the column: http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/outdoors/x1146475392/Deer-tales-NY-and-Pa-two-side-by-side-management-plans

That's a very notable sentiment, Joe. My hat is off to you. But at least we have added the notion of yearling dispersal to the discussion. Many think that if they pass on a buck, it will be there next year for them to shoot, when according to science, it very well may not be. But for the record, I have been passing on bucks for 30 years. Here is a little video I made on it, last year...pardon the quality to all the video critics out there, but the deer are wild and hunted. Enjoy.

Good point Doc. A couple years ago, during bow season I had a small breeding herd (what I call a WBN,) Whitetail Breeding Nucleus, run around the tree I was in. Probably about eight or nine deer in all. I captured a bit of it on video. It was interesting to see how the bucks chased an evidently hot doe, and how a decent eight-point, tried to chase away the three yearling bucks, and keep up with the doe at the same time. There were some other does and fawns in the group too. When the first rut peak occurred this year, in the end of October, spilling into the first few days of November, I saw a dandy buck chasing another one through the woods. Interestingly, there was another buck, kind of a sidekick to the dominant buck, that was running just a bit back...acted just like a toadie. Summer before last I was watching a bachelor group of eight-points and a yearling...four- or six-point kept trying to join into the group. One of the eights kept peeling off from the main group and chased the four-point off. But the little guy was stubborn and kept coming back. But every time he did, the eight pointer chased him away, some of the chases were a couple hundred yards. Bucks do chase other bucks and they are serious, not just play. A swarm of yearling bucks around a hot doe could drive a decent buck crazy, not to mention the caloric and fat expense. This year, during our second rut peak in the third week of November, I watched a dandy eight come out of his sanctuary with a small herd of doe. And on the outskirts, about 100 yards or so were two small bucks on one side and closer to me was another small buck. The three bucks were obviously shadowing the doe group, with the dominant buck as it moved into a cornfield. This was very controlled and I didn't witness any chasing of buck vs. buck or buck vs. doe. But that's why when we are hunting in a main rut peak, it is so much feast or famine. You are either in the action, for the most part, where the bucks are or not. But I digress...

Yeah, I know, I was only kidding with Cwhite. In southern Allegany County we have very little snow cover compared to the rest of Western NY, we are too far from the lakes for any significant lake effect. So there is really little winter stress on the deer. It has been many years since we have had a real winter kill here...back in the late 70's was the last time. Though we seem to have a decent population here (Unit 9Y) has a buck index from 5 to 7 per square mile, so couple with that all the logging that is going on, the bucks do fine here. The problem is that there is just too much pressure on anything with a couple points on a side now.

Your are welcome. I just showed you, blurry and low quality as it is, a buck chasing another buck in the rut. Something you have never seen, by your own admission. But your response seems a bit ungrateful. :-\

Here it is, or a little bit of it. I am building it into a DVD for next year. Anyways, here is a quick shot of a buck chasing another buck away from a cluster of breeding scrapes and does. _Bucks_in_a_chase_11.16.10__02.mov

Very funny. ;D Well, I have, a bunch of times. Even this year, during the first rut. Oh, wait. I have it on video this year. Want to see it? Then you will admit I am right?

Well, shows me that you haven't seen big bucks chasing smaller bucks. But you will, if you spend more time out in the woods.

I won't comment about my sexual experiences...or lack thereof... This is a family show. ...and now my boys are grown men...Best of Luck with yours! Do you want to know what really stresses the breeder bucks?....other bucks, yearlings! They drive them nuts. Ever watch a buck try to keep other bucks away from a doe he was tending? Thanks, that is another reason to trim down the sacred yearling bucks! To keep the big boys from running themselves to death.

Joe: Whoa, not any doe at any time. It depends on their cycle. They don't cycle all at the same time. Some in the first rut peak, some in the second and about 25% of the doe fawns in the third rut peak. And we do not know which ones are going to cycle at any given time. Some does at some times bucks won't leave alone, and others, they could care less about...it is all in their particular estrus cycles. Also, their is a lot of synergy going on...in the past I have learned that shooting does during the early season can really screw up your buck hunting.

cwhite: Hey, at least my perspective on this issue got you to chime in! No, shooting the old long-nosed does is like shooting your decoys (not that it hasn't been done!) The old gals bring in the bucks and hold them there. The breeders and the periphery (satellite) bucks. That is until we get to the bow/'loader season. That's when I it is best to shoot does...but you have to be careful and not shoot bucks that have dropped their horns. Beg to differ with your analogy, but as it is, when we protect yearlings and shoot 2.5 year olds, it is like protecting jr. high school kids vs. high school kids and 3.5 year olds might be college age. Bucks aren't mature until 5.5 or 6.5, right? I spend the winter trimming trees and brush, freeing up and trimming old apple trees, and dropping trees for sanctuary cover...it's a good workout too. But where did I say that's a concern? You must be ESPN

How 'bout the NYDEC biologists? There are many others across the states that have reached similar scientific conclusions... "The proposed antler restriction was designed to protect most yearling (1.5 year old) bucks from harvest, allowing for greater numbers of bucks in the 2.5 year old age class and likely a small increase in 3.5 year old and older age classes prior to the subsequent hunting seasons. For hunters seeking to see more 2.5 year old bucks, antler restrictions may be effective. However, antler restrictions may be only minimally effective for hunters desiring to take more, older bucks. Data from New York’s current pilot antler restriction program reveals only a minor increase (about 14%) in the average number of 2.5 year old and older bucks harvested after several years of antler restrictions despite a dramatic reduction (about 65%) in average yearling harvest. " NYSDEC answer to the state AR proposal. "Oh, but that's just wrong." QDM is all about a "balanced herd" and has nothing to do with big racks. :-X Who is sticking up for the 2.5 year old bucks, that minimum AR...buck that everybody shoots? I think they are the ones that need the pressure taken off...by shooting the yearlings that aren't going to be there anyways.