So how does that go....

[growalot]

again?...If there are droppings and urine in a deer bed it's a buck?

If so I have already started a new bedding area and it maybe one that will be for bucks...I went in yesterday to finish up some cutting and there were several fresh beds and they all had urine and or droppings in them

Not being use to any buck sign other than during hunting season....If the bucks have grouped up and are in this area now....... will that signal they have moved into the area for spring/summer?

 

To add to this discussion...should I worry the doe won't stay to drop fawns as usual and will the buck move off to others in the fall....I ask because...I'm the place they usually come to in the fall...

 

All these years here and I've never had buck that were on the property other than in the fall....hhhmmm a new situation.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2013 by growalot

[growalot]

No thoughts? I could use some input on this...

[phade]

I can pretty much gurantee those are doe beds based on your description Grow. Close proximity and multiple beds are #1 sign for doe beds. Bucks, esp. mature bucks, are much more calculating with bed selection. Does are a bit less choosey - because they rely on a different defense - numbers. Does will often beds in numbers - you can tell because the beds will indicate different directional facing. You can determine which way the deer is facing based on where the pellets are in the bed. Does and bucks will pee and deficate in the bed, often while standing to stretch or getting up to leave the bed. Doe beds will not often appear to have a purpose in the way that they face in them...some will be north, some sw, some e, etc. There are certainly exceptions, but that is the case. You'll also see beds and pellets of varying size. The locations of the beds will often not be in ideal defensive positions - such as open fields from time to time, or in low spots where they cannot sample the wind and see at the same time.

 

Even in times of bachelor groups, you will rarely describe their bedding as multiple and in close proximity. Generally speaking the best buck (dominance wise) is going to take the best bedding from a defensive/safety position. You may have what are called sattelite beds held by lesser bucks - these beds are often spread out over a graeter distance. If the mature buck is not in that "best" bed, then a subordinate buck will occupy it. You want to see a sizeable bed with large pellets and big tracks. There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to rub use - some bucks will have a rub right on top of the bed, and some will not. If you do find all of the above and a solid rub or rubline leading away from the bed, then you know you are in the money. Most often, though Grow, mature bucks are a different animal than does and young bucks. They value safety more than anything - most people that refer to bedding "areas" usually mean doe bedding and maybe some subordinant bucks. Even in times of bachelor groups, most of the mature deer will be beded lone, unless they are in a sattelite setup. You can find that in marsh situations often.

 

The other thing Grow, is I think you are in hill country, which to me can be easily figured out in general, but fine tuning is very challenging because of the large variety of factors. Finding buck beds in hill country can be most easily accomplished by looking at your elevation points and walking the 1/3 from the top elevation line. You'll find wind specific bedding more common in hill country than in flat land/ag (although it does happen). So, looking at that 1/3 line, you find a buck bed. You can generally tell what wind he beds in it with, given thermals and wind direction. In most cases, that buck will bed with the wind coming up and over the hillside from his behind, and he will be looking down into the valley. He'll be on that leeward side, sampling the wind from behind and using his vision in front where his nose cannot defend him. This pattern also shows in flat land or ag - they'll be backed up to a thick area with vision over a more open area, with the wind coming from the thick area they cannot see through. It so effective, you can pretty much identify the exact position in the bed and where they face in that bed. That's why you often hear about hunters hunting transition lines (hardwoods/brush, marsh/hardwoods, brush/field) - but most don't know truly why they find success there. Deer are certainly users of transition lines and hunters think they are in a funnel setting, etc. But really, what they are doing is unknowingly setting up closer to a buck bed. The closer you are to his bed, the better your odds for killing him (and alerting him, too, but based on numbers, hunters can unknowingly get lucky over time). They think this buck they shot was up crusing, etc. when in reality, he had just rose from his bed and was in his safe zone.

 

Remember, if you identify the "best" buck bed for an area and a mature buck uses it...as long as nothing changes, that bed will be backfilled by the next "best" buck once the one that occupied it before is killed or moves to new ground. Many people who target beds for hunting have pulled multiple mature bucks from the same bed over the course of 5-10 years.

 

I can go into hunting the buck beds a bit more specifically, but I've already wrote a ton...lol. BTW, you may get more responses if your title was a bit more clear - ie "how to find buck beds" or "how do you identify beds" etc.

Edited March 28, 2013 by phade

[growalot]

Well Thank you for that! Lots to consider.

 

The beds in question weren't close together(then what is close?) and were on the high side of a west slope...hhhmmm everything ...save one gully is a west slope....overlooking a shelf/ledge...not sure how they describe it...less sloping 200ft before a steep drop off to 2 hundred yrd flatter area then drop to swamps.

This ledge has always gotten late rubs...but as I said buck move off in the winter...but the cams are showing lots and lots of dark tarsal and clearly some buck... I had  a few fresh rubs as late as February

I only know that the length direction on the beds were either north to south and north/east to south/west...but I guess the urine statement is a mute  consideration...good to know

 

Yesterday I crested the hill...coming off the ledge and spotted three deer bedded at the bottom in the Oak flat...those I knew were a doe and 2 yearlings...bedded around 10yrds apart facing north...west...and east...I backed out and headed for the gully above them...kicked up 6 deer that had bedded on the east slope of the gully...they ran up and over past me down to the swamps...Then 3-4 hundred yrds away in the middle of a farmers field stood one single ...big...deer...It fed so long without lifting it's head I started thinking it might be a decoy...lol

 

Over the years during hunting I've been able to watch many buck bed...they normally always go up near the base of a good sized tree and face the west...If they are at the base of the hill I've caught then facing up hill...which is why I've watched some fine fine buck disappear on me...couldn't smell me ...but when I got far enough to be able to glass down hill...it was already too late ...there would be a stare down and the second I would get backed up.... 20mins and 10ft later...they'd jump the bed...I'm surprised the doe and yearlings didn't catch me yesterday...

 

So your opinions ..IF buck have started filtering in to "stay" will this effect the doe that drop fawn on us?...I'll be perfectly honest...I'd rather have "resident " doe than buck on our place...but that is just what I'm use to....

 

I know guys like to pattern buck all year and some like to go after specific animals....I personally like the surprise...I like having to make in field decisions as to whether I should shoot or not...but most of all I like that I can be on the property all year and the doe groups...well they get use to me and we just kinda walk past each other with out any hysteria...only a few young buck have ever done that...I KNOW I'll have buck in the fall,because the doe are here...There are some late summer battles..I mean walking around on hind legs slapping the faces off each other...biting... pouncing on backs ..ect.... between doe and some chased off...but I have a few core groups.

 

(sp)

Edited March 28, 2013 by growalot

[growalot]

Dang sorry for the length....

[phade]

It sounds like you don't have much buck bedding on your ground at all to be honest. Sounds like when you do, it is situational based on the wind and thermals - so when the conditions are correct, they'll come in and bed. If you have west slopes, and you have W or SW winds, those bucks are likely bedded on the other side of the slope, with wind coming up over the west slope and dropping down to their beds on the other side at the 1/3/ from top elevation line.

 

Bedding at the base of the hill often tells me that there are thermals and currents in play. Since this is your home turf - maybe look at taking milk weed seeds and releasing in various conditions and times of day, and weather types over the next few weeks. You could also maybe bring a handheld smoker. I suspect you'll find conditions where the wind could be flowing one direction, but the smoke flows differently based on thermals and wind tunnels. Sounds like you have both in play.

 

Mother does - especially alpha does - are known to agressively hold the best fawning ground and deter bachelor bucks and even groups. Alot of it is dependent upon the deer involved. If the alpha doe is agressive, then chances are the does will still be there and fawn.

[growalot]

Thanks........ I know the thermals well...our winter winds tend to flow out of the n/w or west...they hit above the ridge and swirl back...sometimes the entire hill looks like the trees are in a blender....late winter/spring there are the usual hit and miss south east winds then a southern flow that changes west or east during the summer and early fall...One would think that the several stands I have at the base of our steep slope before the main flatter area would be bad...but they have been my most productive...

 

Your right up until now I NEVER see buck on the property after deer season...at least the older ones...They actually tend to group up and stay farther up the hill...where the topography dips to the east before rising yet again...about 3/4 to a bit over a mile away....Then there are the older buck that stay below us in the swamps....mind you we are still talking the middle of this hill...

 

I'm just glad your opinion is one that the doe will keep this as a fawning area...

 

 

[phade]

Thanks........ I know the thermals well...our winter winds tend to flow out of the n/w or west...they hit above the ridge and swirl back...sometimes the entire hill looks like the trees are in a blender....late winter/spring there are the usual hit and miss south east winds then a southern flow that changes west or east during the summer and early fall...One would think that the several stands I have at the base of our steep slope before the main flatter area would be bad...but they have been my most productive...

 

Your right up until now I NEVER see buck on the property after deer season...at least the older ones...They actually tend to group up and stay farther up the hill...where the topography dips to the east before rising yet again...about 3/4 to a bit over a mile away....Then there are the older buck that stay below us in the swamps....mind you we are still talking the middle of this hill...

 

I'm just glad your opinion is one that the doe will keep this as a fawning area...

I suspect the lowers stands are taking advantage of bucks bedding within the wind tunnel and your stands are just outside of the tunnel...I imagine they are there as you say in-season for a reason.

 

Could be tough hunting, sounds like your major bedding spots for bucks are below and above...good for transitions between the two as bucks roam from both places into your ground in season. But, sounds like early and maybe late are harder to hunt for mature bucks?

[growalot]

Not sure what you consider early and late ...my records on the bigger boys I've taken are Oct. 18th through the 24 and usually the first week of gun day 2 and 3...which ends those hunts ....I doe hunt after that ...though I did take my 20011 buck on Nov. 3rd...

 

Hhhmmm ....now that you got me thinking about it....every big buck in gun season has been the second day of gun....

 

Well they certainly have a ton of bedding around ...I believe that any changes that are/may happen will be food related....They lost a lot of food with these "corn wars" as it were...hopefully opening up all this canopy will keep them around...as I type four walked down through hitting the elder/bramble brush...headed for the fresh tops...

[phade]

Not sure what you consider early and late ...my records on the bigger boys I've taken are Oct. 18th through the 24 and usually the first week of gun day 2 and 3...which ends those hunts ....I doe hunt after that ...though I did take my 20011 buck on Nov. 3rd...

 

Hhhmmm ....now that you got me thinking about it....every big buck in gun season has been the second day of gun....

 

Well they certainly have a ton of bedding around ...I believe that any changes that are/may happen will be food related....They lost a lot of food with these "corn wars" as it were...hopefully opening up all this canopy will keep them around...as I type four walked down through hitting the elder/bramble brush...headed for the fresh tops...

Big boys - 2.5? 3.5? 4.5? That's early for roaming if they aren't beded on your ground or very near it.

[growalot]

3.5.. 4.5...I'm not sure how old this guy was...but it took two of us...a neighbor guy and I to drag him out gutted...His body doesn't look all that big in the pic..well I'm not a small person admittedly... but he was dang heavy...lol

[phade]

Hard to tell there with the pic...3.5 or so. Pretty good buck by any stretch.

 

Bedding and activity habits seem to shift when a buck makes it past 3.5. Not really sure why, but it's like a light goes on or something. As much as I consider a 3.5 a mature buck for NYs sake, they are a completely different animal when they reach to 4.5.

 

I think Potter on this site targets 4.5s and has pretty good luck with them...I'm just not there yet. If I see a good 3.5, in most cases I'll take it, because I don't own or control enough acreage. I can only count on my hands how many times I have run into a legit 4.5+ while in stand here in NY. I run into a ton of 3.5s.

[growalot]

I hunted such a buck at camp for three years....it was the year I invited a young woman down that I'd been teaching to hunt for a couple of years......EVERY THING went wrong...first showed up with husband without asking...he being a non hunter........ticked the guys off...then I put them on stand .....along a creek bed over looking a ledge and run way...told them I was moving a little down hill from them NOT TO MOVE I'd be back to get them....if I kicked any thing up they'd run past them....I get a couple of hundred ft away and see the buck  jump the creek and head right for an opening a hundred yrds below me...all he needed to do was take 1 more step...I had a steady rest and clean shot...when we both hear it and he looks my way...I turn to see her stumbling down the hill...He retreated so fast it looked like he sprouted wings and flew over the creek....Her husband wanted to know how long before I came back....Well sorry I just lost it....never did see that old boy again