Doc

Yeah it's me. I'm starting to get to be an old fixture around the internet hunting forums. I find it interesting to discuss hunting on these kinds of forums, and get different perspectives on hot topics. Some people don't care for the fact that I can't seem to answer the most simple question without writing a book. I'm working on that, but not making a whole lot of progress.....lol. Occasionally I may get a bit passionate on my views and rub people the wrong way, but I hope in the end, all those that I have had some of those heavy discussions with, wind up realizing that we really are all on the same side here. I am look forward to discussions here because of the more local nature of a New York forum. It's always interesting to hear about someone out west taking their 500 yard shots across the prairie at some animal that I may never see, but my real interest is in local hunting in local areas under situations and conditions that I am more accustomed to and can relate to. Now all we have to do is get people here and we're ready to go. That will happen eventually. Doc

I hope the folks at Realtree feel that way, because I'm going to be sending a bunch of PM's out to their NY members pretty soon. You never know what the reaction may be, but I guess I'll be finding out. Doc

Here are a few of the things that send me out with a bow every year: As I've explained, I am pretty much out of the trees now and spend 99% of the time hunkered behind some deadfall or brush heap watching deer trails. Several times I have had deer almost within touching distance at eye level, and I don't think I have ever had another experience that got my heart beating and provided that huge adrenaline rush like that. Just being there eyeball to eyeball at that distance with a creature that for the most part has senses that simply make fools out of most hunters is an experience that I just can't get during the slam-banging chaos of gun season. The challenge is something that complicates the harvest and always keeps everything over in the "question mark column" right up until I actually lay hands on that critter. Doing things the hard way (the archery way) provides such a feeling of satisfaction when it all finally comes together. The hours of practice finally pays off. The intense scouting and scheming to work myself within bow range, provides a pay-off that is truly something to be proud of. It's not like sitting on the edge of a field and popping a deer at one or two hundred yards. You have to know your stuff to get within 20 or 30 yards of a deer, and occasionally within a few feet. I didn't just get close, I got "bow" close. That's extra special. The other thing that drives me to be a bowhunter is the fact that with the hunter density reduced, the hunting results are usually a product of my own merit. I am not counting on someone else accidently spooking a deer my way. If a deer comes within bow range it is generally because I scouted and read the sign well enough to get myself that close. i worked out the proper location at the proper time, and have removed the element of luck to a large extent. And then of course there is the challenge of the weapon itself. Mastering archery techniques is not exactly a simple thing. So for those of us that do, there is quite a bit of satisfaction to that too. Developing the mental and physical disciplines to send that arrow into a rather small "kill zone" is not really something you have to worry aboutas much with rifles and shotguns. There is so much to go wrong in that final moment when you have to pick the right moment to draw without being busted, and have to achieve the proper anchor, back tension, arm position, head position, exacting stance, and then finally the follow-through, all while under the pressure of a deer, up close and personal .... Man that is some kind of satisfying achievement when you can make all that stuff happen. Absolutely none of that is required with firearms, and absolutely all of that is required with a bow. All this doesn't take one thing away from my enjoyment of gun season, but the sense of accomplishment with gun kills simply doesn't measure up to my bow kills. It never has, and never will. Doc

What if hunting could be made easier? What if you were certain that you would harvest a nice wall-hanger buck or two every season. What if you developed a fool-proof system of deer hunting? Let's say that someone invented a real scentproof clothing system, and you developed a property that was highly managed so that you could guarantee several encounters per season with gigantic bucks. Let's also say that the animals were somewhat conditioned to not be quite so alarmed by your presence. Let's also assume that you were allowed to used simpler weapons to shoot that were not quite so physically and mentally demanding at a time where the deer you were hunting were not spooked out of their minds like our usual gun seasons. Or maybe you were the first one allowed to rifle hunt an area that was previously bow only. Or perhaps you went on a guaranteed guided deer hunt where the scouting had already been done by the guide and stands were picked out for you and the herd consisted of guaranteed monster bucks. Would you still enjoy the hunt? What elements of the hunt if any would you miss the most if they were removed from your hunting? would easy hunting be as interesting and satisfying as the more challenging hunts that most hunters are familiar with? Doc

So, as the title of the thread says ......... Why do you bowhunt? Is it just to extend your deer hunting season, or are there things about bowhunting that actually make you prefer to pick up a bow for your deer hunting and endure all the little (and big) frustrations that come along with the activity. Doc

Yeah .... lol ......I have to sit down and read the instructions first and get it all set up. I'm a great one for buying stuff and then waiting and waiting to actually use it. Somewhere down the jobs list is an entry to "get the trail-cam out". Problem is that list keeps getting longer and longer. Doc

I'm sure it has happened before, but I have never seen a site disappear that fast without any warning. If we had known that was going to happen, we could have gotten names and addresses of members. Actually, that site was huge and actually somewhat influencial in the world of NYS hunting. I saw several references to the site in various news articles and such. Well, I guess there is no way that it is ever coming back, so now we have something new to develop. This site should become as big as the Empire site was if we all get the old "word-of-mouth" machine going. We need to talk this site up to anyone we can find and hopefully it will start to grow. I think the other thing is for each of us to post as much as we can so that when newcomers get here, they will find something that looks established and "happenin'". Doc

I can understand how other forums might get a bit protective about someone advertising another forum on their site. They probably would assume that we are trying to pull members or participation away from them. Doc

Yeah, I think we all get out as often as possible. It is possible that just the changes in today's lifestyle and the increased demands on our time is what has caused the changes that I am talking about. I fixed all that ....... I retired ..... lol. Doc

Boy! the price is right. You'll probably have to put a pile of weight on top of either one of those units, but given enough time they should work. That pull-behind roto-tiller looks like an interesting critter. Of course the price tag isn't nearly as nice. But that would work up a much nicer seed-bed. Doc

Over here in Ontario County, 5 years ago, bears were the last thing that I ever would have thought of. Last year, we had a legal open bear season here. I have had bird feeders twisted up and ripped out of the ground and garbage cans dragged up into the woods with the contents scattered nicely through the woods. Everybody in the area for several valleys around have been having similar problems. Talk about a rapid change. And the DEC swears that they have not planted any in the area but that all this population explosion is due to wandering bears deciding to set up housekeeping in the area. However, the fact that we have an open season on bears does not mean that hunting them is a practical activity right now. If anyone gets one here, it most likely will be just a super-lucky event. Those critters have a huge range, and it will be a few years before the numbers offer up much of a realistic opportunity. But the way the population is growing, it may be a hunting opportunity that will be practical in a very few years. Doc

Bow season was a wipe-out. Some of that was because I had a specific buck that I had seen, and I spent most of my time after him in an area that I usually don't hunt, and it just didn't work out. Also, for some reason, the deer movement seemed to be a bit more nocturnal than usual so there wasn't a whole lot of opportunities anyway. I filled one doe tag in gun season. And here comes the excuses: I think everyone kind of agrees that the weather during most of gun season sucked. Warm weather and lack of snow really messed things up a bit. I also noticed the same thing last year as I have noted in recent past years. The hunters have turned out to be not too reliable in terms of applying consistant pressure. What I mean by that is that the first half of opening day is fairly lively with a lot of shots heard around the valley and then it all shuts off. After that, there never seems to be the same level of hunter participation for the rest of the season. There is just enough to remind the deer that hunters are in the woods and that they should keep their movement nocturnal and sit tight unless somebody steps on them, but not enough to kick them out of their sanctuaries and up on their feet. There are some weird hunter patterns developing that makes it appear that not only do we have fewer hunters, but their dedication and enthusiasm has been slipping such that they are only part-timers. Even opening day, state parking lots begin to empty before noon. It's weird! I honestly believe that the nature of today's hunters is completely different from what I've seen in the past. Saturdays and Sundays don't really seem to be all that special anymore. I think there is more going on than just the much publicized downturn in hunter numbers. I believe that those that are left have lost an awful lot of passion and dedication for the sport. The result is that there are just enough to put the deer into their super-survival mode and tactics, but not enough to move deer. That at least is the observations from my little hunting area. I don't know if others are seeing the same thing. At any rate, that is all the excuses that I can conjure up for a pretty dismal season last year. I'm not sure what I'm going to do different this year to make things come out a bit better. Probably the first thing I will do is to not be quite so darn stubborn with focusing on a specific deer during archery season. Time for a little reality check in that regard. Doc

I just figured out that the Realtree forum members can be sorted by state for all those members who supplied that information in their profile. It turns out there are 35 NYS members of the Realtree forum. If I can compose an introductory letter that informs them of this forum and provides this web address, it wouldn't take much for me to send them all a PM. Does that seem like a reasonable idea? Doc

So, anybody got any suggestions how we can get members? Have we covered all the other major forums and made an announcement. I only belong to one other forum and that is Realtree, and I know it is on there. It's pretty tough to launch a hunting site at this time of year. Everybody is off doing summery things. However, I know there are a whole lot of people that have been real disappointed that the other site diappeared, and would probably jump at the chance to join here if they were just aware of it. The trick is figuring out how to let them know. So we need to figure out a few ways of getting the news out. Any thoughts? Doc

Well, I'm no help either. The only thing I've ever put in was a field of birdsfoot trefoil. The deer do seem to like it, it's easy to grow, and it is the toughest stuff I've ever come across..... nearly indestructible once it has been established. However I have never heard anybody recommend it for deer food-plots. Most everybody that I've ever heard seems to be hung up on commercial food-plot seed that is especially formulated for deer. Probably that isn't the cheapest way to go, but it is what is recommended for drawing in deer by those that claim to know. The one thing that I have never seen in their ads though is any comments on whether it is low or high maintenance. My theory is that almost anything green will attract deer if it is the only green-field around. I have hunted down in north-central PA and the area I was hunting had little tiny hay lots right in the middle of the woods. They were mostly alfalfa. That's not on most hunter's food-plot recommendation list, but it sure did draw the deer anyway. Doc

There are a few other calibers that I'm considering. A .270 is another one that I have been looking at. What makes the decision so darn tough is that I only want to buy one deer rifle to last the rest of my life. That means that recoil is a big factor as I start entering those years of decreasing body mass. Start hell, that's already happening ..... lol. But the choice is not, "what can I handle today, but what will still be comfortable to shoot a bunch of years from now. The other consideration is that I want a caliber that I can spend a bunch of time with on the shooting bench. I'll be coming up with my own loads, so I need to spend time checking out which loads shoot best. That means some lengthy shooting sessions. That is one reason why I have been leaning toward the .243. I realize that it is right on the lower border in terms of being a deer rifle, but I have shot a .243, and it is a real comfortable caliber that I could shoot all day if I wanted to. The problem is that there is no place where you can try out different calibers. I'm a bit hesitant to simply buy a rifle and find out about the recoil for the first time after I have bought it. We used to have a great gun store that went out of business a couple of years ago. They had a unique feature in that they would let you step outside at their range and fire off a couple of shots from a gun that you were interested in before you bought it. Great idea, but nobody lets you do that anymore. If I was a member of a gun club there would maybe be some options for trying out different calibers ....... but I'm not. I've raised the question of the .243 several times on a few different forums and there seems to be pretty universal agreement that the .243 will get the job done, but is the absolute minimum that anyone would recommend for a deer rifle. I do wish there was some way to try out different calibers. Doc

Looks like a first-class operation.

I'm even worse ...... I've had a trail cam since mid winter and haven't taken the time to put it up. Doc

I got an idea ....... Take the camera along and get some pictures of the stands when they are done and the shooting lanes. That'll be pretty darn interesting. Doc

Try to work on a design that cantilevers the stand off a single trunk like the commercial stands. As I said, years ago we came up with a welded up steel design that worked out real good and was designed to attach to a single trunk. We used a system of jack-screws working against a chain. I believe that a similar design could have been made out of wood. I probably wouldn't have as much faith in a wooden version a I did in those steel ones, but the design for a permanent wooden stand would be a lot simpler than what we had with our home-made semi-portables. At any rate ...... good luck. Spend a bit of time working with a pencil and paper and I'm sure you can come up with something that doesn't need multiple trees/trunks. Just remember to "over-build" whatever you put up ....... safety first. Doc

I already have a shotgun ...... a 1969 Ithaca Deerslayer. It has harvested an awful lot of deer. I bought that new, and it is all I have used for deer hunting since. No question it is very effective, especially in the short-range hunting that we have around here. This is valley country, and there just isn't a whole lot of wide open, long distance shooting. But for all these years, I have been beating the hell out of my shoulder verifying the scope alignment, and re-adjusting when necessary. The result ....... never any significant long practice sessions like I could do with a rifle. The shoulder would never stand up to that kind of abuse. I have never had any accuracy problems because of my close-range shot selection, but I still like the confidence one gets from spending hours on the range with their deer gun. Doc

One mile from the house is just about as handy as having it in your own back yard. What is it, an archery club or something? Any fee?

I'm still new to the whole system since last year was my first experience with lifetime licenses. I believe that I went down to the Town Clerk when it was announced that they were available and just presented my lifetime hunting certificate, and she performed the computer draw right there (free). Doc

My mistake. I meant to say lag screws. The tree I used was a huge willow with several trunks. Being so close to the ground with my stand means that in heavy winds there is not much movement from one trunk to the other. This is something I found was very important years ago. When using multi-trunked trees, I found that wind could move one trunk relative to another with a force that no nails could resist. Every year I would have to re-nail. I'm not sure whether the same problem would occur with these huge lag-screws, but relative motion due to wind is something I am always mindful of. Doc

Hey ..... summer is a super busy time of the year when we try to cram all those warm-weather activities into an all-too-short summer. So I understand what you are talking about. I have one other problem to deal with. The stinkin' bugs will pick you up and carry you right back out of the woods where my archery range is. It really is pretty hard to concentrate of shooting form when a mosquito or black fly is munching on your neck. They don't ease up until about August. That is when I start practicing in earnest. Doc