A Sportsman

Doc, That is funny stuff. Speaking as a Long Islander, it really can be pretty weird with some of the stuff we have to deal with out there. But what are we supposed to do? All I want to do with my life is fish and hunt. Unfortunately for the hunting part of it, I live on Long Island. Running upstate all the time is just not going to happen. So I make the best of it. And yeah, its different hunting experience on the island. Kids playing in the woods or adjacent backyards happens all the time. But I've had Anti's scream curses as they drive by as I'm at the truck, a mountain biker coast by as I was up to my elbows cutting the wind pipe. One time a huge dog prevented me from getting to my truck. Thought I may have to shoot it. Caught other hunters posting property that wasnt theirs. The shenanigans are endless. In fact, I gave up bow hunting a few years and just fished all fall. But I had to come back to it. If you are a hunter, I think you just find a way to stay with it.

As I mentioned earlier, I will figure 100 yds as my personal setback (provided there are no other variables). As for recovery, I will be doing the same as I've aleways done. Track the deer and if it goes on private property, ask the owner for permission to track. In some of the back and forth in this thread, it looks like some of us are falling into that same "trap" of not realizing that different areas of the state require different approaches for interpreting the law in a manner that won't piss off the people around you. Ill be honest, as a long island hunter I dig this change. But if I lived upstate (north of nyc haha) in a rural area I would not like it at all. Similarly, on long island, if its not posted its fair game. I would dare try that upstate though. Different situation.

While I agree that 50 yds is too close to a house, I think 100 yds isn't too bad. And that is likely where I will draw the line, all things equal. I highly doubt that these towns, with their documented deer and lyme issues will turn around and make the setback LONGER than 500 feet. That simply doesn't pass the laugh test to me. Hopefully hunters excersise respect and courtesy with the new rule. Hopefully... For now, I am a little excited for 3 reasons. This will make it easier to bury my wind in houses. This will open up some spots that were always a little too small to be legal but have plenty of deer. And hopefully this will spread out LI hunters so the spots in general are not as crowded as they have become.

I know we had a 16,000 page thread on this recently so sorry if we covered this and I forgot. But doesn't each town have the right to enforce a more strict set back distance. In other words, state says 150 is closest you can be. But town x can opt to maintain a larger setback distance. For argument sake, keep it at 500.

Once you've got eyes on a buck that you want to shoot, making the right moves to allow yourself a shot is a whole nother variable. Sure sometimes you can get lucky and have a deer come in and present a nice shot. But often, you'll have to read a situation and make the right moves to allow yourself a good shot opportunity. Sometimes if you can just move a few yards you can open up a much better vantage point. Sometimes you may need to creep down a whole level, on your butt. Every situation is different. Crunchy/calm days obviously there isn't much you can do. But you definitely can use your calls. I've noticed some guys go into a paralysis when they spot one, sorta hoping it all works out. And for them it usually doesn't.

Awesome story Joe. Thanks.

Yes. Please, that link would be appreciated. Something else that should not be overlooked when planning out your hunt in mountainous country is where the sun will be at various times throughout the day. Trying to still hunt in a direction that puts the sun in your face puts you at a significant disadvantage. Try to limit it as best as you can. This may seem obvious. But for me at least, if I don't actively think about this variable, I sometimes get stung by it. mountains twist and turn, the sun moves... Sometimes if your hunting a plan with a group, there may be no choice but to have one or two of you with a "lousier sun" than the others. Life goes on. As Stoneam2006 mentioned earlier, this hunting is so very different from stand hunting. Totally different strategies, the deer themselves behave differently, etc. I hunt most of bow season on long island from stands. By the time rifle season starts, its such a welcomed change.

Some guys who hunt the big woods really have a mentality of wanting to hunt alone. Or perhaps only team up for the drag if someone shoots one. I understand that and personally I enjoy hunting alone too when the conditions permit. But during times when its too calm out for sneaking, and/or the deer are not moving at all, or especially when both of these conditions are met, I prefer to hunt with a group and design a plan to try to bump deer to one another. As NYAntler said above, when you bump a deer in these woods its pretty insane how far they can run, at full tilt. Factor that in when figuring your plans.

NFA and Stoneam2006, thanks for the kind words. Stoneam2006, your attitude about this type of hunting as you expressed above is great and a necessary ingredient. As a kid, I struggled because I wanted more action. And numbers of deer sightings just isn't what this is about. my friends were experiencing much more action in other portions of the state and it was frustrating for me. So glad now that I stuck with it. Now for a couple more tid bits... NFA mentioned smelling deer. As time has gone on, I can't believe how often I smell deer in the woods. Usually its the rutty buck smell, sometimes the "horses" smell. On days when its foggy and air is "heavy" it happens a lot. I once smelled 4 or 5 bucks in one day. Over the years, a few of these deer I got eyes on. Came real close to killing a big 9 ptr once but I blew it and cover was too thick for a shot. The other tip is use binoculars. I resisted using them for years due to weight and the fact that I wear glasses and never felt real comfortable looking through the ones I tried. Last year I bought a good pair and gave the a fair shake. My goodness I can't believe what I was missing all those years. Put simply, I am a better hunter with binocs around my neck. Quick story, last year I was stalking a buck with a doe and lost sight of them down below me. I had guessed that they bedded since they seemingly just vanished. Never saw them walk off. So I creeped down the mountain little by little 10 yds at a time using boinocs to keep scanning. At some point I was able to see the tips of his antlers. They were bedded up against a short bench. Without binocs I would have had to trip on these deer to see them. Long story short, I wound up passing on the buck since I already had one hanging. It was a nice one too. 8 ptr good mass, 16" wide. I wound up bumping it eventually and it ran to my cousin, and he shot it.

I too have called in many bucks with the grunt. Mostly while bow hunting. The biggest of them (read: all the ones I've actually wanted to shoot) have found a way to evade me. So often They come in to a point and then hang up when they don't see another buck. Eventually they lose interest and walk off. Incidentally the buck I got with the rifle last year gave me a shot after using the grunt call on him. He was with a doe on the level below me and strayed from her a little to see who was grunting at him.

I know I'm not the best looking guy in the world, but I didn't think I was so ugly I would kill the thread by posting a picture. Guess ill go back to being a shadow...

When I hunt big woods, I find that there are two main variables that will dictate whether or not the hunting is good for me. Number 1 is the walking conditions. A perfectly still day without any breeze or precipitation is not good. The other major factor is what the deer are doing. Often for us, opening week in the catskills, the bucks are with a doe in that lock-down mode. Where they are really just lying around in a small area and not moving much at all. And the rest of the does and fawns are often laying around in groups, not moving much either. This can be tough. Espeicailly if we don;t have the walking conditions. Sitting is just not going to be effective at all when they are like this. Using the sign and whatever deer sightings we have in our camp, I usually try to use the first couple of days of the hunt to develop an idea of what the deer are doing and what areas seem to be hot. One other quick point, in the big woods, with minimal pressure compared to other areas, one would think that the significance of opening day isn;t quite so much. And it probably isn;t (compared to high pressure areas). However, I've noticed that opening days do in fact make a difference. We seem to see more deer on their feet, on the opener. Even though we cover a lot of ground, and don;t even hunt the same areas every day, I think our scent gets into the woods and as bucks are making their rounds at night through their home range, they are catching that scent and they become less careless. For what its worth. I've never posted a photo on this site, even though I;ve been yapping for a couple of years. I;m not much of an internet person. In fact this is the only hunting site i visit. But here are a couple of the bigger big woods catskill bucks I still hunted...

Great tips guys. Discussions on this type of hunting are my favorite on the forum. As stated 6 miles in is a lot. My treks are similar to NFA's (1-3), yet I am in catskills high peaks. If you are covering that type of ground without covering more than a couple of sets of tracks, my advice would be to hunt a different section of the 'Dacs. I didn't connect with a deer for my first 9 or 10 yrs. But once I got my first, the whole situation changed. The next 10 years were awesome.about a deer per year. Its like success be-getts success. Hunting big woods is as mental as it is physical. Stay confident and when it comes to sign, believe what your eyes see. No sign no deer. StiLl hunting are area void of sign is a waste of your time.

I'm not a tatoo guy either but seeing one that cool makes me think twice. Awesome.

E Russell, drag a bear to the road from where I hunt and then ask yourself "was it worth it to donate the meat?" I understand if someone has some concern for bear predation on deer, if things are really getting out of whack. But we also have to be respectful of nature. If a bear catches a deer and eats it, I say good for him. That's what animals do, they eat eachother. Ill have to just go find a different deer for me.

My brother is the type who hunts opening week of rifle and that's it. Don't fish, don't bowhunt, doesn't go on hunting websites, etc. But he enjoys his rifle hunting each year for what it is for him and he is actually a pretty good still hunter and woodsman. Unfortunately He is not lucky. In fact he is unlucky. For years and years (like 14)he could not close the deal on a catskill buck. It got to the point where every year we would all say "maybe this is his year". It was a sore subject. Couple yrs ago he finally shot one. Nice 8 ptr. All six of us who share camp really felt a relief after he finally connected. Like others have said, there are too many to mention. Last year my cousin and I tagged out on 2 nice catskill bucks by about 715am opening day. Spent half the day taking our time dragging them out, and half the day drinking adult beverages celebrating it. That was a great day too.

Been lurking through this entire thread. Finally decided to add my 2 cents. Doc, I have understood and agree with what you are describing. I can't understand why some of the others won't admit that your anchor will need to change to accomodate it. Unless maybe the bow has a large valley and the shooter isn't anchoring against the wall. For others who don't fit that situation and admit that the anchor does change, I'm shocked at how nonchalant they treat changing your anchor. Lastly, if you think you can compensate for the d loop by adjuasting the release or getting a shorter realease, you right. But not if you already shoot a shorter release. And besides, if you shoot a longer release and want to change to a short one, fine, but releases aren't cheap. It be a shame to not buy the correct release to start with. Which means making sure the d loop is on the bow your buying as you get set up.

jjb4900, That sounds like something a bit worse than buck fever. your friend may need to see a shrink for that.

Amen. For those of you who can justify long shots,what do you tell yourself when something goes wrong that is outside your control? Do you just say "oh well, the deer moved. Not my fault the arrow is now sticking out of his backside". Then take another long shot on the next one? How do you go on doing what your doing? Bowhunting is a close range sport. If you can't accept that, maybe its not for you. Or maybe you need to question what is important to you. Sorry to. Continue with abrasive talk. But this is a sore topic that I camt simply disagree with someone on. Could you imagine having to help someone track a wounded animal that they shot at 70 yds with a bow? Talk about a lousy position to be in.

Thanks Doc. That's exactly what I was going to say. Couldn't have put it better.

There are plenty of topics that get discussed on here where we may disagree with eachother, yet still respect varying opinions. But this aint one them. If someone wants to launch arrows 50 yards at a deer, I won't hunt with them. Not because I disagree with them. But because I don't respect them as hunters. To the original posters question, heart and lungs, no brainer (pun intended). Enough can and does go wrong in that moment of truth. I wouldn't tempt fate.

I've only hunted for them twice in 3A, in the mountains of state land. Each trip was a spring weekend. So 4 days total. Saw a few birds each trip, and shot a small tom on one of them. In general, I think there are fewer turkeys in the woods of state land in 3A. But they are there. And With the little pressure they get, what they lack in numbers, they may make up for in "foolability".

I agree Doc that the DEC is trying to drum up interest. I suppose if the numbers are high and hunters can get excited about the additional opportunity, its a win win. Where I hunt in catskills has some of the highest bear densities in the state. YEt even with the higher likekihood of seeing one, I don't find myself too "excited" to strictly bear hunt. Though I may do it if other guys in my hunting party want to do it. My feeling is that in the areas with high populations, hunters already have a pretty goood chance of seeing one without dogs and bait. May have to put in a reasonable amount of time. Say 5 days of hunting, couple of guys. that said, I would suppose if you are hunting them in spring, or sepetember with full foliage, it will be more difficult to get eyes on them. For us, over past decade, I think the rule that you can't shoot a bear in a group has saved a handful of mama bears. In fact that is another potential rule change that I'm not too keen on. I don't want to shoot a cub, nor take a mama away from cubs.heck I don't want to shoot a small bear, say under 130 dressed either.

Baiting and hounds both don't sit well with me personally. But I don't know if I would judge someone negatively if that is what they were into. If I were to hunt for bear (not shoot them as a bycatch while deer hunting), I'd rather hunt them by still hunting than sitting over bait. I like the ideas of the spring season and september season. Another opportunity to get in the woods during the year is a nice thing.

Doc and mike, regarding citizens making themselves aware of pending legislation and if necessary voicing their opinion, I think your both right. As Doc pointed out its darn near impossible to stay up on everything that may be affecting you. And so every so often, there will be laws that bother you that you never saw coming. And if those laws bother enough people, they hopefully can be repealled. But to mikes point, as hunters we owe it to ourselves to make sure we stay informed on bills that may affect us and make sure we have our voices heard. Either thru letters, or public mtgs etc. I am a surfcaster on Long island and over the yrs have gotten involved in making my voice heard with respect to fisheries management. Having seen how that system works, with the ASMFC,the politics behind decisions,recs often at odds with the commercial fishing industry, etc., its a nightmare. It often seems hopeless for the rec fisherman. I think there is a much better chance for Hunters to afffect change to the legislation that concerns us, than the poor recreational fisherman constantly chasing his tail while the comms and asmfc keep raping fisheries for every last cent they can, until they collapse.