A Sportsman

Regarding the liver, I thought I read that a shot that really gets the liver good is quite a bit better than a gut shot. I know i;ve seen significant blood from a liver hit deer that i recovered. but I think one lung was clipped as well on that deer.

Good points Geno C. Maybe "unethical" was a little heavy handed. Truly, without us knowing how he thought the hit was, looking at the arrow (assuming pass through), hair?, how the deer reacted, etc., its probably silly to start to think about why he did what he did. Lets hope that he found the deer.....and he's not sharing the tenderloins with maggots.

Hey Folks, yesterday afternoon was WARM 70s, last night was mild and Today was forecasted to be over 70 again. I completely understand the desire to back out if youre unsure of the hit and don't want to push a deer. But with these kinds of temperatures you have to weigh the decision to back out properly. I would think decomposition would ruin that deer by the morning under these conditions. Maybe I am wrong though. Just wondering what the general consensus is on this. Personally, assuming i thought it was gut shot, I would have waited 4 to 6 hours and then went in in the dark to track it. With cold temps, I would have waited til first light the next day. Furthermore, knowing that you had to go to school in the morning, and couldnt get on that blood trail at first light (6:45), how do you wait til after class to get in there. You said you had good blood, but provided no information on the quality of the shot. Good blood is another good reason to get on the track sooner. If you hit the deer at 6 pm and went looking at 10:30 the next day, that deer could have been dead and rotting for over 16 hours. And thats assuming you found it right at 10:30 when you started to look. I'm sorry but this stinks of "unethical" to me. I'm sorry to cast judgement, but like I said above, maybe I am wrong. I'm curious to see what some of the guys on this site would think about the decomposition rate of the deer given these warm temperatures.

Hey guys, Just wanted to say that I am also a LI hunter and have experienced the same BS. At this point, when I hang a stand, number 1, its the cheapest stand I can get my hands on. and Number 2, I try to camo the heck out it with availalble brush. At the rate stands get stolen, I would never even think about using a trail cam. My stands are $40 at Dicks and people steal them. I would imagine a trail cam would be ripped off before I even got back to my truck. As hunters on LI, we have to "look past" so much nonsense that it can be difficult to even enjoy what you are doing. I actually gave up bowhunting the island for two years after I had a "hell" season of Antis leaving notes on my car, other hunters threatening my car tires if my car showed up there again, a stolen stand opening morning, etc. BUT, I've since come back to it, with a very different attitude and have been able to enjoy my time in the woods. I'd love to believe that hunters have a set of morals that are better than the average person. But, in my experience, on long island anyway, this is not so. That said, its still to our benefit to treat each and every "other" hunter we come across with respect until he gives us reason not to. I'll go so far as to allow other guys to hunt my stand if I;m not there. I don't own the woods, and this is long Island, if they guy moves 100 yards away....theres probably another stand there!

Good post buckstopshere. I often think about scenting conditions and what affects them. A recent rain, humidity, heavy winds, etc. Understanding how weather conditions affect their ability to smell you is useful information. nyslowhand, you raise a good point. Maybe I should have clarified what I saying a bit instead of generalizing. I hunt LI and upstate in central catskills. On LI, I've often seen "smart" deer move about the woods relentlessly depending on thier nose to scent check the woods ahead of them. I've also seen them literally run through the woods when moving back downwind to get to thier bedding area. In the catskills where I hunt, there are very very few hunters around. The deer will wind you just as easily up there, but I feel their daily movements/patterns aren't created out of "habit" of avoiding hunters as they are in LI.

Doc, For what its worth, i couldn't agree more with you. Frankly, I'm having a tough time understanding how anyone can not agree with the point you are making. As hunters, our goal is to be the best we can be in terms of success in the woods, and as stewards of the land and wildlife. In that pursuit, we can control so much with the decisions we make. Such as buying the gear that works best for us, scouting, practicing shooting, maintaining our own safety, etc. But here we are talking about a situation where once that arrow is released, all things within our control are moot and whether or not that deer is killed has so much to do with fate. How a hunter can argue that this is ethical is beyond me. We are supposed to be sportsmen. If the deer is out of reasonable bow range, a sportsman lets it go. who knows maybe you get to see him next time...at 13 yards quartering away.

Hey guys, I don't consider myself all that much into gadgetry and nick-nacks when it comes to hunting (gun or bow). But of all the various products that are marketed to us, scent killing items get a fair share of my $ each year. (for record, I don;t buy the suits, just detergent, spray, soap, deodorant, wipes, baking soda, etc.) From when I first started hunting (not caring about scent), til now (paying a good bit of attention to it), I;ve noticed that I get "busted" a lot less. And when I do, it very often is after I've passed up a shot opportunity. To be fair, some of this must be attributable to the fact that I tend to select stand locations more based upon wind direction than ever before, and ALWAYS still hunt with a wind in my favor. To be honest, I probably see less deer now, but when I do, I am more often in good position. But, I cringe when I think of all the good bucks (and keen does) that have winded me over the years. In my view, if you are looking for a big buck (and not just a deer) cutting down scent becomes more important. Also, as mentioned above, if you are hunting in a populated area, it becomes even more important. Deer in giant tracts of land that see less people seem to be less careful about it. Also, the importance when bow hunting is much more significant than with the gun. I limit my bow shots by 25 yards. Of the deer that winded me over the years, many of them could have easilty been taken with a gun. But with a bow, I needed them not only to come closer, but also to be relatively calm and not "on alert". I'm actually a little surprised more guys havn't chimed in here who take a similar stance on scent control....

Hey Fellas, I happen to hunt this portion of 3A where the AR is now in effect. As I've detailed in the Deer Hunting Forum, I am vehemently opposed to this new regulation for this area. I am even more angry about the way it came about. It is absolutely mindboggling that these types of laws could be passed without DEC input. That needs to change. The other issue is "How could they change the regulation this close to the season..after many people already bought their licenses?" There are many folks out there who don't go to internet hunting sites and may not happen to come across the information. State ECOs will now have to enforce this regulation knowing full well that a responsible hunter may not have known that the regulations changed. This tells us that these politicians did not even consult with the DEC in setting up a date for the new regs to go into effect. On the surface, these are relatively minor changes that many guys may even like, but ideologically this is some scary stuff.

My point is that this area has a balanced buck herd. Remember, it is Forever Wild. That means, there is no other human variables that can impact the herd. No logging (habitat change), no agriculture, etc. If something isn't broken, why bother fixing it? especially at the cost of taking away a hunter's freedom to choose. You could say what you will about AR being about "improving the herd based on habitat other needs" but do you really think AR would have ever been congered up if everyone was shooting monster bucks? Not a chance. we could go on forever talking about this. its such a controversial issue. At the end of the day, this was a needless rule that was borne from politics, not a true understanding of the area. The deer herd is/was as nature allowed. With zero problems of little bucks being killed too early. The only thing it accomplished was that it took away a hunter's freedom. Its a shame.

It is obvious that some people are just in favor of AR across the board without regard for the specifics of an area. (NY Antler, I do appreciate your comment on seeing how little of an impact it would have on my area). Everyone is allowed to there own opinion.... For me personally, and I think other guys who hunt areas like mine, it doesn;t bother me that some other guy shoots a small buck. I'm hunting a challenging area because I am up for that challenge. Deer that get shot are all part of it. The same way it was for my dad, and the guys who hunted the land before him. I say kudos to the gent who shot his 4 pointer. I know he worked a lot harder for that buck than most other hunters work for their's. But Trust me, if i was a hunting a small private property, where we always see the same spike and 4 ptrs, I would probably support AR. Or hunt somewhere else. totally Different situation.

Hey Folks, It seems that any threads that deal with ARs, eventually deteriorate into a general discussion on who is for it and who is against it. In the process, the details of the specific area in question (in this case, one portion of WMU 3A) seem to fade away, and everyone seems to discuss what they support for wherever it is they hunt. Since surveys conducted show that most hunters support ARs, I can't help but wonder how many of those hunters support it "across the board" for all areas of the state. I have hunted this section of 3A since I was 16 (about 20 years) and for the life of me can't understand why anyone would want ARs there. This is the central portion of the catskill mountains. Per unit area, there are few hunters and plenty of deer that are living past 1.5. Granted, the deer population there isn;t what it is in neighboring WMUs. As evidence, there are hardly ever any doe permits given. I just feel that if the majority of guys want AR here, something isn't adding up. Do these same guys want it for the Adirondacks? How about Westchester County? As I've stated in a previous thread, 14 of the last 16 deer my hunting party has shot in 3A have had 3 or more points. A handful have been better than 160 pounds, up to 210 dressed. Why would we want to change anything at this point?

Hey meat hunter, I realize that since most of the deer we shoot have 3 points, the rule may not have a big "actual" affect on us. Let me point out that one of the two that didnt have 3 pts, was a spike that I shot some years ago. After a week of seeing very few deer, hunting up and down mountains from 5am to 4 pm everyday, I shot the spike on the very last afternoon. Long story short, it lifted the spirits of the camp and to this day is one of the deer that I;m most proud of. (it had only 5" spikes too) With respect to strengthening the heard, I respectfully disagree. You have to grasp the true vastness of the woods we are in to get an idea of how little impact the taking of one or two deer will have. The severity of the winters has all to do with the herd in this area. not the smathering of deer that get killed by hunters. Like I said originally, I understand the desire for AR in other areas. Just not this one. I am saddened by the number of other hunter in 3A (69%) who desire the 3pt restriction. I hunt mainly on 3 mountains in the high peaks of the catskills, and many days I cover a lot of ground, and almost never run into other hunters, and when i do its one of the same 3 guys. I guess I question where these guys (69%) are and why they feel AR would improve their hunting?

Hey Folks, New poster here. Just came across this site and am happy to be reading some hunting chit chat as I am looking forward to the coming season. I suppose before I post any comments, I should introduce myself. My name is Al and I live on Long Island . Hunting and fishing is all I’ve really cared about for as long as I can remember. I hunt bow season (mostly on LI) and I rifle hunt about 10 days/year in 3A, specifically in the area that this new regulation pertains to. (south and west of Route 28). I am 35 and have been hunting State Land in 3A since I was 16. My father and uncle have been hunting the area every year since the late 60s. I should point out that I am not a “computer-guy” and while I’ve lurked on many fishing and hunting websites for the past 10 years, I’ve never actually posted anything. When I read about this new regulation however, I felt compelled to comment on how much I am opposed to it. Let me first state that I am not for or against ARs, on the whole. I am of the thinking that it depends on the specific area. The area in question is characterized by huge expanses of mountainous land and virtually no farms. So the carrying capacity is relatively low. (Doe tags almost never offered in 3A). Much of the land is designated “Forever Wild” by the state, which means no permanent tree stands, and no motorized vehicles. Over time, these restrictions, combined with general decline of hunter recruitment, have meant less and less hunters/hunting pressure. So you have a huge area, with relatively low deer population and few hunters. Given these conditions, people would have to be crazy to think that AR is the correct path. As evidence of my point, Iet me point out that over the past 8 seasons, my hunting party (5 guys) have taken 16 deer. Admittedly, not a good success ratio. But 14 out of 16 have had 3 points or more on one side. And we aren’t hunting for horns either. We’ve only passed up a few (3 or 4?) small bucks over that time. My other point is that some years the hunting is very difficult. Due to population level, weather, and terrain, in a week of hunting, I may only have one opportunity with a good shot on a buck. After a week of going up and down mountains, in all kinds of weather, busting my hump, it’s insulting (to say the very least) to have someone tell me I can’t take home venison. I’m so shocked that hunters felt the need for AR in this area, that I can’t help but question all the other areas where hunters wanted it. In my eyes, those who argue for AR just lost a lot of credibility. Thanks for listening…glad for the opportunity to contribute to the site, Al