A Sportsman

Reelmonsters, you bring up a good point. I haven't seen this issue discussed on this site or anywhere just in general. I've lost a couple of small games spots over the years to this type of thing. Its really a twisted situation when you think about it. You have "environmentalists" with this pretty intelligent plan to preserve land in an area. I believe the reasoning behind it is to protect groundwater. But then you have hunters, who likely care more about the environment than some of the "environmentalists", who are banned from using it, for no reason at all. It can be frustrating on the island. I probably should have been born somewhere else...

What about allowing more shotgun hunting on state and county properties that can support it? And lessening the requiremenmts of reservations and lotteries, etc. Like first come first serve. No cars parked in the spot, have at it. Ill admit that all things equal I'm not sure I'd want places that havew historically been bow only being shotgun hunted. For what it may do to deer pop. But I like this idea better than sharpshooters.

When I find myself in a funk not seeing any deer I try to refocus myself on strictly on bedding areas. I ask myself "where are these deer bedding?" In woods that are loaded with thicket, this can be tough. Deer can bed anywhere. But in woods with small pockets of thicket, its much easier. My advice would be to scout a lot over the next 2 months and find the areas with good sign, better sign, and insane sign. Mark them on maps. Since it is pretty heavily hunted you may need to have several options should other hunters "spoil" some or most of them. Once you have your spots, consider access points taking wind into account. And buy a quality treestand for next season. Good luck.

As some have stated, I'd never quit unless for physical reasons. Of the various rules that get discussed on here, the one buck rule (as a blanket rule for every hunter in every portion of nys)is one that I just don't get. It makes even less sense to me than AR. Our state is large and varied and needs to be managed as "site specifically" as possible. One buck rule may be beneficial to some areas, but hurt other areas both from a deer management perspective and/or taking away a hunters choice needlessly.

I started hunting small game in the early 90s on the island. Can't believe that's 20 yrs ago already. In order to compensate for losing spots to development, it seemed like we would need to find new spots every 2 years or so. It got to the point where every time we would go out to a spot we would basically wonder if this was going to be our last time there. These were all non-state land spots. Eventually my dad lost interest and I got tired of having to find new land. I also never developed much of a taste for rabbits, which is what we were mostly hunting. So I may get out once a year these days. But to answer the OPs question, yeah small gaming is pretty good on the island. Rabbits, squirrels and quail, and pheasant. Fields are nice but usually get hit the hardest. I like to find cover that holds game in the woods, not too far in off the fields. I also like to get into areas that are super thick, where other hunters don't go. Yeah its tough to get shots off in that stuff, but the rabbits are in there.

Not sure where some of this information is coming from. In my exp on LI, Ihavent seen evidence that hunters are not shooting does and strictly looking for horns. i didn't take time to look this up but I'm pretty sure dec stats will attest to it. To say "hunters have failed at reducing the population" is ridiculous. We are dealing with a public down here that largely doesn't have a clue about hunting. And Many of these deer are living in a reas that are inaccesible to hunters. The issue that bothers me the most is the fact that there still is a lot of parkland that can and should be opened up to hunting. And not in a manner that is a complete turnoff, like the wertheim deal.

For those of you who go through the trouble of aging deer, how often do you find youself surprised by the results? A buddy of mine shot a 6 yo doe (aged by dec) from long island few yrs ago that was under 100 lbs dressed. I would have never guessed that old. Also my cousin shot a big 7 ptr last year in catskills that was 23 inches inside spread. And real massy. Deer only weighed in the 150s dressed. That one was aged at 8.5 by taxidermist. I was shocked body wasn't bigger. And this year in same areea of catskills the buck I shot was an 8 ptr, without much mass. The face was all gray and old looking and it dressed out at 153. Looking at rack I would say 2.5 (maybe 3.5) but judging by the face and weight I would say possibly older. Strange.

Sneaking around the mountains with snow on the ground is a wonderful thing. In late season, I find it common to have to travel a long ways to find fresh sign. But once I find that sign, its game on. That said, I unfortunately can't say I've killed any truly big bucks in this fashion yet. Wish I had more opportunities to hunt snow. By late season wife has had enuf of my hunting and I am in damage control mode.

As you stay at this game for some time, you'll get remimders of how hard it is, or can be. And that's why you still get excited when you get one, and its what keeps you coming back.

After a little over 2 yrs since sending my bears tooth in to dec, I finally heard back. By now I figured something happened and I was never gonna hear back. Anyway, in case anyone is interested in some actual age/weight stas, I figuresd I'd post them. My bear was a female from catskills that was 5.75 yrs old and dressed out at 143 lbs. According to dec letter the avg nys bear that is shot by hunters is 4.75 for females and 3.75 for males.

Just to provide some sort of context to the 3000 figure, dec states that in 2012 hunters took about 2600 deer. And from research I did on LI deer management I recall that nuissance tags account for at least that many deer (2500) most yrs. I recall 2900 a couple years ago. As far as changing to 150 feet, it would help. As much as I don't want to hunt close to a house, for the obvious reasons, I do for others. Like being able to dump your wind into houses. And it opens up funnels that were previously too close to houses.

Not to stick up for rob, but his frustration coming out of him could be a "last straw" kinda deal. A lot of folks on here don't hunt long island. While its certainly no excuse, by this point in a season, hunting public land, its very possible that you can be simply fed up with the way things go. He makes the comment about losing out on 300 bucks, well, what if this is the 3rd or 4th hunt that has been screwewd up(1200). Maybe his wife is angry, as most are by this point in season. I started hunting a few of the county spots on long island this year. These spots were supposedly off limits to hunting for past few decades and just opened up last season.And what I found was half-expected. Permament treestands, and chain ons (illegal), guys slipping into the woods from areas other than the assignedparking spots (illegal). Matter of fact I have a suspician that there is a whole group of guys (club?) who are using 2 adjacent county pieces to come and go as they please, with no regard for the rules and first come first serve, etc. Not sticking up for rob, just pointing out that it can be awful out there and sometimes you can just reach a point where your sick of the bs.

I agree with pretty much everything said here. And NFA I'm pretty sure hunters on this site that walk the walk have a real respect for what you do. I do. And I think we share a similar enthusiasm for deep woods. That said I do feel that gaining the experience of shooting a number of deer does make someone a "better" hunter. But only in the sense that it gives you experience which may help you determine what shots to make, what to avoid,tracking hit deer, dragging, etc. And all that is part of hunting. And to be honest, I also have a the feeling that kids and guys who are new to hunting should not be passing on small bucks and does, especially before they get their first. I can't put my finger on why it irks me, it just does. Maybe its because it took me a long time to shoot a deer as a kid (5 or 6 years). I don't know. Just seems like that's not what hunting is supposed to be about.

Just to add another point, regarding buck/doe ratios, my hunting party and I have seen a pretty good ratio in the section of 3A we hunt. It follows what you would expect. Not too many hunters, pretty good ratio. That said, it is true that overall deer sightings are low. Or very low. Regarding the initial topic at hand here (Passing on bucks that are under the AR 3 pt rule), it seems to happen to my group every year at least once or twice. We have seen some pretty nice bucks that we had to pass on because we couldnt confirm the 3rd point. We also have an issue in our area with a decent number of the bucks not having brow tines, which doesnt help. When you are on foot, trying to work out a shot on a buck that is on the move, and per chance stopping in cover, and then moving again with its head down, etc., it can be real tough to get eyes on that third point. And if the rack is a darker brown, its even tougher. Last year I had to pass up shots on a 6 pointer twice, while trying to see his antlers. And he kept moving away from me. I had to stalk into position for a shot 3 times before I could pull the trigger on him. I still think AR was a big mistake for 3A considering the dearth of hunters and the fact that shooting any buck in that area is an accomplishment. But it is the rule and so we have to deal.

Folks, I have hunted 3A since I am 16. So 21 years. In that time I have mostly seen a deer popul that remains low for reasons stated (habitat). I've heard the stories from my dad and others about how there were more deer and many more hunters back in the late 60s through the 80s. I have watched the foliage on 2 mountains change over the years to where I simply don't bother going there anymore. Its tough for sure and it will try your patience and confidence. At times it will frustrate the heck out of you. And it will continue. Further, if its just meat you are after, the state has let you down with AR and no dmps there. BUT,(and this is a big but here)killing bucks there is not magic. Its not like maine where you have to drive miles of road to find a single track (as I have heard anyway). Its also not unlike sections of the ADKs that are barren of deer, yet guys find and shoot some deer. I sucked at hunting this area for the first 10 seasons I tried it and I likely would have given it up if my dad and uncle didn't have so much history there. But I stuck with it and the last 10 seasons have been pretty darn good. This season I shot a nice 8 (missing brows, woulda been a 10). Probably 2.5 maybe 3.5. Weighed 152.5. As far as seeing nothing but "little bucks" there it doesn't compute. Little hunting pressure, steep mountainous terrain that enable bucks to live a long life away from people. They are there. If you stick with it, you'll see.

I don't see a problem with it. The lodge we hunt out of does one too. I think it was 5 dollars per man this year. And it is for heaviest buck. At our first dinner we each throw 5 on the table and then the contest is literally forgotten about until someone wins. Doesn't detract. But for us it doesn't add anything either.

I like the hunting in NYS. What the heck am I missing here? And I gun hunt in a pretty tough WMU (3A). I also hunt bow on the island. Completely different areas in every sense of the word. As they should be, they are managed very diffferently by DEC. Ok great. 3A now has AR, which is dumb for much of that area, but I still go out, hunt it hard and enjoy the snot out of my time in the woods. When I have a hunt or even an entire season that doesn't go well, its on me. Not the habitat, other hunters, rough winters, or the dec. Me. And that is fine. Also, even with 3A being tough for deer popul., I have managed 8 bucks (mostly decent or better) and a bear over the past 10 yrs of rifle hunting. Hunting one week per year. Not bragging by any stretch, but just pointing out that things are not as bad out there as some would lead you to believe.

RT Gobbler, good post. You make a lot of sense. Seems like every time AR is discussed on here we always wind up admitting that the state's deer population varies depending on where you are and no one management strategy will fit all areas. Besides nutrition and haboitat, in some areas consecutive nasty winters do more damage to deer heard than what hunters may or may not take. 3A is a great example of such an area. I also hunt 3A for rifle every year and agree that there are not very many deer in those deep woods mountainous areas. I'm willimg to bet sections of the dacks may have more deer density than sections of the catskills. That said, I still enjoy 3A, as there are few other hunters and some quality mountain deer that you can work your tail off for.

As has been stated by a few here, I also opt to still hunt/stalk. The only time i will put any appreciable time in sitting is when the woods are too cruchy to walk. When it comes to the big woods, I have so much more success still hunting. Also, for what its worth, I usually don't still hunt "all the woods". I usually do some fast walking just to get to the spots that I want to still hunt. A lot of the terrain in the big woods can be rather void of deer. Still hunting through these areas is more or less a waste of time in my opinion. What doc said about using the binoculars to scan the woods in front of you is gold. I just started using binocs in this fashion this year. I can't even believe that all these years I've been still hunting without them. NIght and day difference. I won't enter woods without them ever again. Last week was pretty good for us in the catskills. Conditions were pretty good for walking. As a group of 6 we killed 3. two 8 ptrs and a 7ptr, All good deer dressing from 140 to 152. We also were 1 for 1 on Bobs. Long story short, a guy named bob got lost in the woods and had to spend the night out there. The next day we volunteered with the Forest Rangers to go look for him. And we found him at about 10am. So three bucks, and a bob for us.

The updated forecast for caskills has it pretty warm for first few days. And not much of a chance for snow all week. The last time we had any kind of decent snow during opening week in the catskills was around 08 I think. Shame. At least there is some rain in the forecast though. For still hunting, anything is better than warm air, crunchy leaves and no wind.

Definitely. I always carry a hard copy map and compass in addition to my gps. I cut the maps so they fit in a pocket or under my hat amd laminate them so they can get wet. Depending on what I am trying to do, I may reach for the map before the gps. The gps can be a funny tool. In the wrong hands it can give someone a false sense of security and sorta take away their natural mental map. If they don't have much of a mental map, even worse. But in the right hands it can speed up the time it takes to learn big pieces of woods. Another huge benefit is on a drag where The course you take often determines how hard you will have to work. Dragging a deer uphill is hell. The gps with a built in topo map allows you to chart the easiest course. Which is usually still plenty hard.

Hey buckandquarter, i make it a point to have detailed USGS topo maps for all the mountains that I hunt. I also use a gps that I've downloaded the topos onto. There is no substitute for scouting and simply hunting the crap out of the areas. But I've become almost compulsive about studying the topos. Besides funnels there are various mountain features that the deer prefer and the maps can give you all kinds of ideas as to how to access and hunt these areas.

That sucks. Hope we wiLl see you for the gun opener cuz.

I don't practice enough to be good at off hand shooting. Living on LI I can't shoot out my back door. And with the cost of ammo its just not something that I'm driven to do. That said, with the type of hunting I do(mostly still hunting in the catskills) I think having the skill to shoot off hand real well would be a major asset. Where this topic gets a little gray is in defining the shot. 100 yds standing still(not easy). 50 yds standing still (not to bad). 40 yds on a trot in moderately open woods (not to bad), etc, etc.

I too have noticed that the deer in big woods can be less picky about scent, in general, but then again maybe those monster bucks that are rarely seen don't follow that rule. Come to think of it, there are many tactics and strategies with hunting the mountains/ big woods that are so different from hunting woodlots and agricultural areas that it really desrves its own forum.