mike rossi

Thank You! The 11% of NY hunters who HAVE hunted doves (per survey pasted above) need to tell other hunters about how great dove hunting is to garner "the political support" the DEC wants.

Yeah, instead of asking hunters; ask cyclists, skiers, hikers, There also vey popular with the homosexual community.. It seems there is also a website for unfaithful married people to have affairs - some of the meet up places (were "your spouse will never find you") has directions to WMAs...... Hunters asking where public hunting lands are; and these places are full of people doing other things....

Mourning Doves Mike Rossi Key Words: Zenaida macroura, human dimensions, ornithology, hunting, shooting, wildlife, ecology, retriever, wildlife-related recreation, Ducks Unlimited, conservation, habitat, vulnerable species, threatened species, endangered species, nongame species, migratory game species, upland bird, wildlife management, biology, wildlife law, windmills The United States population of doves is estimated to be 400 million birds and they are the nation’s most abundant bird. Long-term annual hunting mortality is 20 million mourning doves. The life span of a dove is considered to be only three years and only 40% live longer than 12 months. That means 380 million doves die in three years due to natural causes. Since hunting mortality is low at 20 million; doves are an under- utilized resource. Thirty five of the 48 states allow dove hunting and although the debate continues; the nations dove population does constitute a renewable resource – one that could produce a regulated harvest, and thereby provide food and recreation, without threatening the stability of the dove population. Dove hunting would generate money for the conservation of doves, as well as other species, including nongame and unstable species (vulnerable, threatened, and endangered). Dove hunting would open up many hunting opportunities; but particularly opportunities for youth, women, handicapped persons, and older hunters. Why? It is done in mild weather. There is no water, mud, hills, brush, long hikes, climbing trees or tree stands, heavy or expensive equipment, low recoil, low noise ammo is used, you can hunt with or without your dog. Traditional dove hunting is in harvested fields, however doves can be found about anywhere, and that is a big issue for many hunters. Doves are quite sporty - hard to hit, and excellent table fare. A dove season is win-win! It is not disputed that doves are not overpopulated.The aspect of wildlife management which is population control does not apply to this species. The concept of harvesting a sustained yield to provide both recreation and conservation funds certainly does, however. The number of hunters is positively related to the amount of conservation monies. Dove hunting would involve more youth, women, disabled persons, and older hunters. Every ten year old who becomes a life-long hunter makes a collectively significant financial contribution to conservation over the course of his or her hunting career. The conservation aspect of wildlife management concerns the treatment of small or declining populations. Despite that doves are the most abundant bird on this continent; even the conservation aspect of wildlife management applies to dove hunting. Since the habitat needs of doves overlap with other species; including nongame and unstable species; many species would benefit from the motivation to preserve and enhance habitat and additional conservation funding obtained from a dove season.

Good to mention, because someone else who reads this may overlook that. Good luck hunting!

That requires some checking too. I dont camp; but there sometimes are firearm (possesion) prohibitions on (public) campgrounds. (You might get a better nights sleep in a motel anyway...)

A good point was raised by western new york buck hunter - spring turkey is a popular season and public hunting lands 60 miles from NY City will see crowds. You should seriously consider hunting during the week or hunting further away from home. Or both! Not trying to scare you in the guise of safety; but your experience will be a milllion times better if you get away from the crowds. Also invest $40 in a bushnell backtrack. You can find your way back to your vehicle or back to a spot you want to hunt again.

Im not from your area, so I cant be specific; but I can tell you that on a few WMA lands and on many parks there are additional regulations - to find out call the regional DEC office. I would definetly call when hunting a park (sometimes they do require sort of written permission in the form of a free permit).

Hear about the candor operation often.

Your kid missed the youth hunt, try next year at one of the lands listed here: dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7809.html. LANDS ON THIS LINK ARE CLOSED FOR THE REGULAR SPRING TURKEY SEASON, niether adults or youth can hunt (spring turkey) in 1c during the regular season.. You both can hunt in the regular season starting May 1 on the lands on this link: dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8289.html

Well most states have programs which the game dept. and landowners have an agreement to allow hunting access; these programs have different names in every state, such as walk in program or landowner cooperative agreement, ect.. I couldnt imagine these programs existing without absolute landowner protection? Much of this demand for private land to hunt wouldnt exist if public hunting land acreage was increased; and such lands were managed more intensely & more from a wildlife land prospective instead of under a multi-use concept. Those advocates of parking areas, trails, and similair non-wildlife expenses are misspending our dollars that should be put into the aquisition of habitat and maximizing & sustaining the potential of same habitat. (Please Note: Its getting quite old to respond to the uninformed or misinformed that there is no money for this - there is millions annually - and any other use of these funds is considered a diversion and a breech of agreement.)

Doc, I get your point. Even if your convicted of a crime, you can still file a lawsuit. You can craft any written disclaimer, but the court can overrule paperwork. Sure its possible to get sued even with this law, but it makes it a hell of a lot harder. We all heard the old husbands tales about the burgler who sued the homeowner and the tresspasser who sued the landowner. But can anyone verify this actually happening? You have every right to post your property and deny access and you should do that if you want! I got those cards out in my truck, I think they actually have something about this law printed on them?

The problems I have had were with people who lie and say they own property I dam well know they dont. And people who post land they dont own.

Last I checked, and it wasnt too long ago, the law your talking about protects landowners from lawsuits by persons hunting on their property. There is one exception: if the landowner is compensated for hunting priviledges, this law does not protect him. Guess its a good idea to have the correct insurance if you are going to charge for hunting access....

Could the administrators of this site create a forum about Legalizing dove hunting in NY? This site could enable the communication needed to get it done!

And you dont have to climb trees to hunt doves.

The last paragraph in Lawdwaz's post about sums it up. To do that first an education campaign must be started. Then involve the USSA (US sportsmans alliance), a national prohunting organization that has been succesful in establishing bear & dove seasons in a number of states. Then it is key to syncronize the intro of legistlation with other states; simply because the opposition from major national ant-hunting groups would be diluted. Regarding the survey: 5,000 is not an adequete sample size. The survey was conducted in an era of all time low participation in small game & waterfowl hunting. Why would it be expected to show different stats? The downward trend in biggame & turkey hunting is negligable; but the decline small game & waterfowl hunting is very significant, and is several decades old. Dove hunting would open up opportunities for youth, women, handicapped persons, and older hunters. Why? Its done in mild weather. There is no water, mud, hills, brush, long hikes, heavy or expensive equipment, low recoil, low noise ammo is used, you can hunt with or without your dog. Tradtional dove hunting is in harvested fields, however doves can be found about anywhere, and thats a big issue for many hunters. Even people concerned about the lack of recruitment of young hunters dont always agree with special youth hunts. The fact there is a youth hunt for many species, but not deer, makes it obvious. IMO, a dove season should have been implemented; not an early waterfowl, spring turkey, nor an early & extra release of pheasant for kids. Not with 4 million doves on the North American continent. The economic studies I have read have also shown that dove hunting is a disportionally larger revenue source then other forms of hunting. A large portion of that revenue is to local economies; and another large portion is put back into conservation mostly via excise tax on shotshells. Doves are quite sporty - hard to hit, and excellent tablefare. A dove season is win-win and its about time!

The DEC actually did publish a well written, thorough report on the social and the biological justifications for a dove season. It is out there in cyberspace if you search-engine it. If we are to have a dove season; we must lobby for it. It is assumable, the DEC has not pursued a season because although NY sportsmen have been proactive about a number of issues (youth biggame; saturday openers; blaze orange; rifles, crossbows, QDM and others); the interest in doves isnt big enough. The USSA,(US Sportsmans alliance), a national prohunting organization, has successfullly helped establish dove & bear seasons in a number of states. Hunting regulations are based on biological reasons, social reasons, and safety reasons. With doves being the most numerous birds on this continent; it is social reasoning; not biological reasoning. Why are doves classified as a songbird in some states and a gamebird in others? Local hunting traditions & attitudes about what is "sporting"; from decades ago are the framework for many hunting regulations. Some analogies would be: why can you use a rifle for turkeys in some states but not others? Why can you bait in some states, but not others? Why can you hunt biggame with dogs in some states but not others? Doves have federal status as a migratory gamebird; however some states, including NY, classify them as a songbird. Since it is (I think) called statuatory authority, it cant be changed as easily as a "regulation". It needs to be put through the legistlation process and that means there will be opposition from well-financed National AR (animal rights) groups based outside NY state. It also means it is the suits in Albany (assemblyman & state senate members) who will be the deciders, not the DEC wildlife staff. The above mentioned USSA has succeded against the big national AR groups suprisingly often. Coop-ing with the USSA; an education campaign; and syncronizing the introduction of legistlation with other states; can eventually get it done.

AR = animal rightist

Nows the time! The poor economy is just another argument for a dove season in NY. Most opposition is from national groups, so syncronizing with other states trying to pass the same legislation would dilute the power of national AR groups.

I dont like that. But, focusing on hunting, the way antis go about it, its not protesting, its harrassing. Other then getting publicity, it doesnt accomplish anything else except harrasment. Waving signs & yelling, and insulting hunters isnt going to ever get them to adopt an AR philosophy. If the ARers want support, they would stage their antics into non hunters. Go to you tube and search Pigeon Shooting, get into the channel of SHARK and watch thier videos. Point is the law does need some doctoring to clarify what protesting actually is and is not.

Wow, dude, Elmer Fudd should be president! Great post!

All I know, is that the federal funding we discussed on this & other threads, has specific uses, and one specified use is research. Colleges that offer wildlife studies have other types of funding as well & do cooberate with state game & fish agencies. Any management prescriptions derived from research can also be funded with the wildlife restoration funds (hence the name}. Whether it is beyond the point of no return cant be determined until it is studied. If we had to rely on the general budget for wildlife, all would be lost back in the 1930's when congressman Pitman, Robinson, Dingal, Johnson and (Walpaux?) had the foresight to recognize that & passed the wildlife restoration act & subsequent ammendments, which collect an excise tax on guns, ammo, and some other hunting and fishing gear. Allthough it is not the only determinant; the priorities of how resources are used does factor in what the public wants. Lets be serious - most people in the state of NY dont care about muskrats, including most hunters.

With some species it does happen too late. Remember all the wild pheasant? I am not sure we learned our lesson! Right now woodcock have issues (although just recently there has been some "stabilization). We all ignored the ringnecks just 2 or 3 decades ago, and we are doing that NOW with woodcock. Hopefully not the case with rats. The current director of the DEC is not a knothead like Granis, his immediate predesor. Granis, former lawmaker, a NYC lawyer, was appointed by Spitzer, former governor and womanizer, also a NYC lawyer. Before heading up the DEC while a lawmaker, Pete Granis introduced & sponsored multiple anti-trapping bills over a several year period. Apparently, Granis' idea of protecting furbearers was protecting individual animals and affording them human or legal rights. Anyway, under the DEC's new leadership, hopefully scientists can practice science.

I do look at the profiles/channels of those who subscribe to my channel so I know who I am talking too & what audiences my vidoes are reaching. Was never expecting this, but its a good thing I discovered it. This guy subscribed to every subscriber on my channel wearing boots, many of them minors. He is using trapping channels as a pathway to his boot thing. I wont be a part of that. I blocked him and I notified my subscribers with a bulletin. Doesnt seem like he and his network differentiate between minors and adults in their lust-quest. As women have complained about being "sexualized" by pornograpghy for decades; and (pornography) has sexualized the equestrian sport; do we really want activities such as trapping, waterfowl hunting, and fishing, sexualized? Taking that to another level; we already discussed the misuse of WMAs. A part of that is stalking and illegal sexual behavior. (6 NYCRR 190.8 J2). Also mentioned was that the new conservation ethic is to take a kid hunting and the issues of declining hunter numbers and the need to recruit youth is common knowledge. This is evinced by the fact that; nearly every state, including NY; has initiated youth seasons, even stocking extra pheasant for youth seasons. We dont need any more challenges in recruiting new hunters.

Are you serious? What about minor boys in boots? He made it my bussiness by subscribing to my channel.