mike rossi

@ Doewhacker That may be where he came from, who knows. I will let my wife know, she may be curious about where he came from. Agree, not a breed for everyone but other people love them.

@ DoeWhacker My mother in law adopted the GWP from the pound and he was too much dog for her, so now we have him. We have no clue as to where he came from. We get asked that quite often about the wirehair.

My wife has been checking the sportsmens education link on the DEC website for the waterfowl ID course and they are not held too often... Someone asked about calls. I have no favorites, but since Last Calls has followed our facebook page and supported efforts to establish a dove season in NY, when I need new calls, I am buying from them...

OK, Long Island, too far for me. I am aware there are some field trials on LI as well. Three Rivers WMA or multi-use area, more accuratly, in Balwinsville, next to syracuse, holds some trials and has some equestrian facilities. Probably got a dog training area there too. NY's dog training regs especially those regarding training birds are unclear and make training much too difficult. Since we are thee biggest minority this will be very difficult to change. If that isnt a big enough hurdle, you got the Agriculture - Markets Law that also wants a piece of us ... And everybody wonders why small game hunters are becoming extinct... Habitat? Ask the grandpas on the NY Conservation Fund Advisory Board and the NY Fish and Wildlife Management Board. They are who has stewardship of our money, and supposedly "spend our money wisely". Got two bird dogs to staunch & steady, a retriever to steady, and another retriever to lenthen marks, hand signal, and steady. They are gwp, es, cbr, and lr. Busy fall...

Grousehunter: How do you apply for the public land permit? Where are the state dog training areas? No, I never heard of this, not in New York anyway.

Call the DEC's Special License Division... This is what I was told: I was told I need a permit to possess bobwhites.The permit costs $200 and is good for 5 years. If you shoot them in training, you need a shooting preserve license or a field trial permit. I asked about recall pens, re netting, capture or harrasment by dogs and I was told you can "take" them any other way other than shooting without the preserve or trial licenses, but you DO need the game bird possesion license. It was suggested that I voluntarily band my birds as well, I think this is especially a good idea when training where wild bobwhites exist, like downstate & Long Island. This is for private land you own or have permission to release birds and train on. I don't know this for a fact, but I do not see why an individual or a few persons could not apply for a field trial permit and use DEC land. Otherwise, as far as I know, you cant do this on public land - even "state land". My understanding is you cannot release wild pigeons or other wildlife such as a nuisance raccoon you trapped in your shed, unless you do it on property which you own. You can catch rock pigeons by hand or net but you cannot trap them, even though they are an unprotected and undesirable species. I do not know how these laws relate to captive gamebirds that are not native to NY, like tibetan quail. Ditto for domestic pigeons and gunea fowl - these might be under ag-markets law instead of en-con law.

Notice the fact he obtained explosive components doesnt get as much attention as guns & ammo...

Not anymore concern with diseases like avian flu then other birds - but any predator or scavenger, including fish, is likely to have levels of pcbs and heavy metals in the fat/flesh so high you shouldnt eat them often. Any animal or fish high on the food chain including us, gets this, called bio accumuation or bio magnification. There has even been caution about our rock pigeon, though not a predator or flesh scavenger, sometimes has high lead, think the idea was way back from the lead paint days, not sure... With the ban and removal of lead paint, probably not much of an issue these days... Real reason rock pigeons arent popular as food probably cause unlike other birds that clean thier nests, pigeons reuse nests & dont clean them - after a while the nests look like clay bowls - but its not clay, get it? Possibly more of an aesthetic or social issue then a health issue... Dont forget any bird can be made into jerky if its too gamey or tough for your taste.

Take a look at this, not the rock pigeons here, but interesting...

With the size of the human population its a good thing everybody doesnt hunt. Never the less our voice is getting smaller and so is our financial contribution to conservation. As a result, besides hunter recruitment/retention efforts, wildlife agencies will seek non hunters to finance conservation. Anti hunters are aware of this and they are perched like vultures... If you want your kids to hunt, you have to be a strong parent. If you give junior a choice between football or hunting with dear old dad, the school function is going to win out... In some schools I am told a kid is punished if he talks about hunting. My age is 46 and when I was in 5th grade, a teacher took three of us small game hunting. When I was in college the dorm had a game cleaning room and a game freezer. Sadly that is not how it is anymore. Another point: the only group that it is still acceptable to negativly stereotype is hunters. (well, maybe lawyers too) The Elmer Fudd character has reached more kids than the Bambi movie. I find that interesting...

The drop in hunters might be much steeper in the future... A number of those older hunters hunt small game. What happens with you guys in your 30's that dont hunt small game when you can't climb that tree, stand on a little platform, pull that bow, and drag out that deer? Going to become born-again small game hunters or just quit?

This is why... 1) Polygyny Mating System which means one male breeds "many" females. 2) Sexual Dimorphism which is a fancy term to describe an animal that the sex is obvious. When you have that mating system and discernable sexes, you can harvest nearly every male without much population change, perhaps even population growth. Harvest of females will reduce population or slow its growth. Correct that the adult sex ratio favors does, but only when hunters selectivly shoot bucks, the sex ratio at birth is fifty-fifty. Under nutrtional stress (poor habitat) the sex ratio of fawns actually favors bucks - up to 72 bucks to 28 does, according to one source. Other animals have different mating systems such as monogamy which requires one male to every female and/or the sexes may not be discernable. Those animals have entirely different ecologies and require entirely different harvest regimes.

I will take a GUESS at this. The main objective of buck harvest ( * until the recent AR) is recreation. The main objective of doe harvest is population manipulation to balance BCC with the SCC. In recreation, it is important to spread the resource out to as many people as possible. Hypothetically, if someone kills two bucks they may be taking an opportunity to kill a buck from someone else. It differs with doe harvest - recreation is not the first objective from the DECs perspective. That is likely the rational behind allowing the transfer of DMP and not allowing the transfer of buck tags. The doe tags I think are called Deer managment permits? The number of permits in each designated unit is based on population goals for that unit. The population goals vary from unit to unit... Each unit has a somewhat theoretical biologial carrying capacity and a social carrying capacity. The DEC strives to balance the bcc and scc in each unit. One example of an influence on bcc in a particular unit would be supply of browse or other food sources. Examples of influences on scc would be road kill history or crop depredation. * The recent AR restrictions are popular with some hunters but the implementation may have more to do with concern over the age structure of bucks in the deer population than it does with hunter satisfaction. It has been suggested that when inmature bucks do most of the breeding that the rut is protracted. That protracted rut is thought to cause the allready undeveloped bucks to go into the winter with little body mass or fat. Don't be surprised if the next idea is to eliminate hunting during the rut...

Thanks, long thread, got lost. About the non reports, by using statistics the DEC doesnt need an exact count. That doesnt mean hunters should be lax about reporting, because obviously the closer to the actual number the better. It does mean trends in population size and population age structure can still be estimated without an exact body count. Also, the statistical models assume a certain number of deer are not reported and adjust for it. The estimates are deemed close enough to help guide management decisions. I would say do your part and just keep reporting your kills and let the dead beats be dead beats.

Replied to wrong post, couldnt delete it, just wanted to say your right, the idea about check stations at sporting goods stores woulnt work.

About Reporting: I have heard from a couple people, as some of you posted here, that many hunters do not report their deer (or other reportable game?). I think this can be dealt with to some extent by a couple of changes. First stress the importance of reporting in hunter ed, teach the kids what it is used for, and why it is important. Second use an incentive as they do with reward bands for waterfowl. One way to do it is to require hunters to check their deer at sporting good stores (they will welcome the business & advertising, has worked in Jersey for many years) Enter every checked deer into a drawing , something like one winner per year, $1,000. The state can handle a grand a year and that is plenty of incentive...

Second Update July 4, 2012 I spoke to a legislative aid in Senator Grisanti’s office on July 3, 2012. Grisanti is the chairman of the SECC. I was told that although the dove bill was not prioritized mainly because it lacked an assembly companion bill; that the response in support was not compelling because the most common argument used by hunters did not strike a chord with the senate. I was told that most supportive letters argued that 40 other states do allow dove hunting. According to the person I spoke with, the senate does not feel that is a strong justification. The letters by opposers where the stock anti-dove hunting arguments which we posted on Facebook and on sportsmen’s online forums. The (3) most common where: Doves are not edible Doves are not overpopulated and not a nuisance species, so why hunt them? The concern over the use of lead shot In the future keep this in mind when communicating with politicians about dove hunting. Our FB page addresses all of the above. We have also discouraged hunters from justifying any form of hunting with overpopulation and nuisance species arguments. We also discourage hunters from opposing restrictions on lead shotgun ammunition and stress that this is one compromise we can live with rather than forfeit a dove season.

Please forward and cross post the above message.

July 2012 Update on s-6968 http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/s6968-2011 The following was told to me on July 2, 2012 by a representative of John Di Francisco’s office. John Di Francisco is the sponsor of this bill. The bill was requested by a sportsman named Fred Neff who lives in Baldwinsville. The “regular” legislative session ended in June and “special sessions” ordered by the governor will continue. Obviously this bill is not on the agenda for any “special sessions.” The bill will have to be reintroduced in January and it is not certain whether it will be. If it is, it would not have to be reintroduced again (assuming it does not pass) until January 2015. I was clearly told that letters or e-mails in support will influence the decision to reintroduce this bill. So if you want to hunt doves in NY or support it, contact his office [email protected] and ask that s-6968 is reintroduced. Do not wait until the fall. Contact his office as soon as possible and then one or two more times before Thanksgiving. The person I spoke to could not speculate as to why the bill did not move in the senate environmental conservation committee. I was informed that there are a variety of reasons and that the committee chairman (Grisanti) [email protected] decides on whether or when to process a bill. We also need to contact Grisanti and the other members of the en-con committee: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Ask Grisanti to move the bill and the other committee members to support it. I was also told that the senate does not always pursue an assembly sponsor and I assume the vice-versa is also true. Therefore it is necessary that individual sportsman contact members of the assembly http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/ and ask them to sponsor a companion bill to s-6968 http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/s6968-2011. On July 2, 2012 I spoke to Assemblyman Magee’s office http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?ad=111 and was told that “he is seriously considering introducing a companion bill in January”. It is wise to contact Magee, your assembly district rep, and the other assembly members. For continued updates subscribe to our Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/NY-Dove-Hunting/365031743546569

Clearly outined by the US Congress in 1956 ... Its either comply or the other states which do comply will get NY's share... Here is how it reads: ASSENT LEGISLATION Both Restoration Acts require the States to spend the revenues they receive from licensing hunters and anglers only for the “administration of said State fish and game department,” (16 USC 669 and 16 USC 777). To satisfy this requirement, the States must have passed legislation for the conservation of fish and wildlife, including a prohibition against the diversion of license fees for any purpose other than the administration of the State fish and game department. This is referred to as assent legislation. This legislation is also the source of authority for auditors to audit State license fees, which is an unusual responsibility of Federal auditors. The regulations implementing the Restoration Acts are contained in Volume 50, Part 80 of the CFRs. Included therein is the assent legislation requirement, which specifies that subsequent State legislation must not abridge the assent legislation (50 CFR 80.3). The term license revenue is used to describe the expanded meaning of license fees. For example, in addition to license fees, license revenue also includes revenue from the granting of rights of real or personal property, interest on license fees, and Federal Aid project reimbursements (50 CFR 80.4). APPORTIONMENT Federal

It might take 5 or 10 years to happen here. In the meantime thousands of us will be buying eight-shot and spending our money in Ohio, Rhode Island, Pennslvania, Delaware, and Maryland, where they do hunt doves...

Seven Ways NY Dove Hunting Facebook helps hunters be Responsive > Understand the issues, laws, policies, statistics, biology, and social science (human dimensions). > Understand the modus operandi the anti-hunting lobby has used against dove hunting in several other states in the last ten years. > Information and contact information at your finger-tips to use for letter writing, public comment, or at stakeholder’s hearings > Keep updated as the situation evolves > Contribute your own knowledge, opinions, and personal experience to assist > Log in and reply to online news about dove hunting legislation much faster by using your FB account to log in then copy & paste off NY Dove Hunting. > Organize and network with other hunters by recommending the page and posting links to the page on sportsmen’s forums http://www.facebook.com/pages/NY-Dove-Hunting/365031743546569

Nice! Those look good enough to sell to magazines etc....

OOPs... I need to apologize to the CFAB and correct post # 5! The federal funds are determined by the ratio of licenses sold to the acreage open to hunters (for the wildlife funds), The fisheries funds are also determined by a formula which considers the number of licenses sold. I was mistaken in saying the CF built up. It is actually the annual reciepts of licenses and permits (tags). The above being true means I was incorrect in blaming the CFAB for not using the funds and for saying that because the CF is 53% more than the federal allotment there is more potential for a diversion of funds. I apologize to the CFAB for blaming them! .

Snowmobiling does not pay into this and is not considered wildlife-related recreation.