mike rossi

You should report this to the DEC. They have the authority to remove them with landowner permission, even if the landowner is a municipality, they need permission, On DEC owned lands, they can control them. The DEC wanted to change that and make other improvements to how they control them but the plan was stopped in its tracks - two fold. First during public review and then by this legislation, provided it passes. You should email the Governor right now - the decision will happen by tomorrow Wednesday (letting it expire is also a decision). Tell him about your personal experience with these birds on your pond. If you have pictures or videos of this, send them along. In the future always document these things on film or video if possible and ALWAYS report them to the DEC. Since both the mute swans and the native birds will be there next spring, you might call the regional DEC office, ask for the wildlife unit, and report the location so they can act before next nesting period.

Keep swinging, the bell didn't ring yet! Prove your unified strength and resolve!

It isn't exactly a secret that the majority of hunters oppose green ammo. As a matter of fact I have posted links in this thread which include data collected on the attitude of hunters toward green ammo. That isn't even a complete list of the social studies done about this... The reason for these social studies is to confirm what is already known (that's how biologists operate, they don't assume, people just say they do). That confirmation might be used to justify outreach or gauge the "readiness" of the hunting community. Unlike the hunting community,conservationists and wildlife biologists support use of green ammo. When presented with the data, the public majority which is neither is pro conservation, pro hunting, or anti hunting; will side with them, not the hunting community. . So will most politicians, in most regions. When anyone, anti hunters or hunters, in an effort to bolster their political agenda; denies or refutes well-documented findings, it undermines the outreach of wildlife agencies and NGOs. This undermining is a huge drain to federal and state conservation funds. Regarding lead ammo, organizations representing hunters take this beyond absurd. They don't merely refute science, they promulgate that no scientific evidence exists which supports a lead ammo ban. That is a pure lie and it destroys the credibility of hunters and suggests that they are extremely stupid. Several states have already required non toxic ammo on public land for well over a decade.. If California did not previously have this restriction on public land, than they are actually a late comer. Anyone reading this use twitter? This forum has a twitter button on the bottom. Perhaps we should start using it and re-tweeting. Otherwise we are investing all this time to entertain people who will not be swayed in their opinions and will continue to misinform others...

Here, this will take you 5 seconds... Open this link by either clicking on it or pasting it in your browser: http://www.governor.ny.gov/contact Then paste one of the following letters into the text box of the contact form. Fill out the rest of the contact form, press enter and you are done… Dear Governor Cuomo, I urge you to VETO senate bill 065889-A and assembly bill 08770-A. The conservation of wildlife and their habitats need to be done cooperatively across state and national boundaries. The cooperation of NY was anticipated by the Atlantic Flyway Council in the effort to eradicate mute swans. Lack of cooperation would undermine the conservation of native migratory wildlife as well as the states native non-migratory wildlife and wetland habitats. Migratory wildlife is a shared resource, and mute swans impact this resource and their wetland habitats. It would not be responsible for the state or any section of the state to either harbor mute swans or to become a source habitat from which mute swans hatched and protected in NY spread across state or national boundaries. Likewise it would not be responsible to fail to protect native wildlife and wetland habitats within NY. Dear Governor Cuomo, I urge you to VETO senate bill 065889-A and assembly bill 08770-A to avoid undermining conservation and conservation funding.

Here, this will take you 5 seconds... Open this link by either clicking on it or pasting it in your browser: http://www.governor.ny.gov/contact Then paste one of the following letters into the text box of the contact form. Fill out the rest of the contact form, press enter and you are done… Dear Governor Cuomo, I urge you to VETO senate bill 065889-A and assembly bill 08770-A. The conservation of wildlife and their habitats need to be done cooperatively across state and national boundaries. The cooperation of NY was anticipated by the Atlantic Flyway Council in the effort to eradicate mute swans. Lack of cooperation would undermine the conservation of native migratory wildlife as well as the states native non-migratory wildlife and wetland habitats. Migratory wildlife is a shared resource, and mute swans impact this resource and their wetland habitats. It would not be responsible for the state or any section of the state to either harbor mute swans or to become a source habitat from which mute swans hatched and protected in NY spread across state or national boundaries. Likewise it would not be responsible to fail to protect native wildlife and wetland habitats within NY. Dear Governor Cuomo, I urge you to VETO senate bill 065889-A and assembly bill 08770-A to avoid undermining conservation and conservation funding.

One reason biologists justify trapping is the protection of ground nesting birds, not just game birds like turkeys, but for threatened and endanger species. If NY decides an invasive species is more important than native imperiled species, how will they rate the activity of trapping? One imperiled bird, although helped by trapping, is also impacted by BOTH mute swans and trapping. The King Rail. Biologists work to reduce threats and impacts. Nobody suggested banning legholds for muskrats to conserve King Rails, but if Queens NY decides which threat to reduce, were is the law going? Muskrat populations are going down and mute swan populations are going up and colonizing new areas. It is unlikely that mute swans are the causative factor for the decline in muskrats, but they are not helping the situation either, just as they compromise other native species. Look at the images below, they are a graphical representation of what is written above. if you have not contacted Governor Cuomo about the mute swan legislation, do so before Midnight Wednesday December 17, 2014. Politely request that Governor Cuomo VETOES the "Tony Avella Mute Swan Bill" so that conservation and conservation funding does not get UNDERMINDED.

Today is Monday, December 15. Governor Cuomo has until Wednesday December 17, presumably until midnight, to act on the anti DEC legislation out of Queens. The legislation is on the governor’s desk, right next to NY Dove Hunting’s petition asking him to VETO it. NY Dove Hunting has reported and informed on this issue for a solid five months. In the future, we need all to pay better attention to what we promulgate and mobilize faster. However, there still is three days. Let’s test how organized we are and our ability to mobilize. One hundred emails / phone calls to the governor’s office each of those three days, up to and including Wednseday. Three hundred contacts POLITELY asking Governor Cuomo to VETO this legislation. NYDH has outlined many useful “talking points” to use in constructing a message about this legislation. At this stage in the game, we are not going to dredge it all up, but it is published online. Some of the lesser used material centers around the need to manage wildlife across government borders. Any Governor with presidential ambitions might be behooved to consider how conservation-minded United States citizens who do not live in Brooklyn and Queens might view this legislation mostly driven out of two boroughs of NYC. Many persons contacting the Governor about this legislation used analogies with snake heads and feral swine. However, the Governor lives in Long Island, essentially NYC. Therefore, he may relate better to Norway rats, black rats, house mice, Pigeons (which are really “rock doves” another Bird of Peace you know); English or house sparrows, and European starlings. All of these came here oversees in small numbers. We might throw in the Quaker parrot or monk parakeet, which have established colonies in “ Tony Avella County; ” however, there currently is also legislation pending which will reclassify Quaker parrots from unprotected wildlife to protected bird. That’s another chapter and another challenge coming up. There really is no need to get into detail at this stage, unless you feel compelled to. A simple, polite contact, perhaps using one or two talking points, or merely saying that you desire the legislation is VETOED is sufficient. Does your rod and gun meet tomorrow? Are you bringing a petition and/or form letters and pressing everyone to engage? Are you on social media and / or contacting your email contacts about this? As stated, after five solid months of promulgating this, the response was not satisfactory. In the same time, the antis generate tens of thousands of petition signatures and managed to bring this through the legislature. Prior to those five months, the DEC held a public review phase, during which we urged the sporting community to engage. The antis were extremely active in the public review of the DEC’s mute swan strategy, while most sportsmen never even heard of a mute swan… The next MODO bill (mourning dove) must be fully engaged. One of the excuses of Senator Grisanti (who was voted out this election ) was that he and other lawmakers heard from plenty of people opposed to dove hunting, and this was the only contact he and others had in support of it. Some of this falls on the erroneous belief that 1) Pro hunting legislation can escape the radar of anti hunting organizations, it will not however. 2) Failure to understand that environmental conservation regulations will almost always be subject to a public review phase, and that public review phase will be advertised. Speaking of Grisanti, his departure opens the door for a new Senate Environmental Conservation Committee Chairman. The Assembly Cahir position of the same committee is also vacated by the retirement of Robert Sweeney. The new appointments will be interesting. The senate version of the mute swan bill was sponsored by Tony Avella, who is on the Senate En-Con Committee. The assembly version of the mute swan bill was sponsored by Cyronowitz, who is on the Assembly En-Con Committee. This is not suggesting that these two lawmakers will be appointed to chair the committee in their respective houses, but it is a possibility. The En-Con chairpersons are the gate keepers to all DEC related legislation. They decide if it moves forward and also if it expires in what they call the “suspense file”…

I thought you were going to point out to me that California ALSO banned coyote hunting contests, as some of the articles on the list I posted indicate..... Several states have this on the table as we speak... We are suggesting that the hunting community's resistance to banning lead ammo hurts a pro-hunting agenda... Others, such as yourself, and most organizations representing hunters, say the opposite is true, claiming that fighting a lead ban helps a pro-hunting agenda. A look at the scientific findings and the social research will give a clear picture of the reality at hand...

here is an article somebody wrote that plays into this topic... http://www.humansandnature.org/hunting---jed-meunier-response-121.php

Before I answer that, I want to post this list and then I will back track. Studies and literature about public opinion about hunting http://www.responsivemanagement.com/download/reports/NAMWC_Public_Opinion_Hunting.pdf http://mountainlion.org/states/wa%20public%20attitude%20report%20on%20hunting.pdf https://www.peregrinefund.org/subsites/conference-lead/PDF/0306%20Schulz.pdf http://faculty.nelson.wisc.edu/treves/wolves/reports/hogberg_treves_shaw_naughton_2013surveyreport.pdf http://www.chasa.co.za/public_attitude_toward_hunting.pdf http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08941929509380924?journalCode=usnr20#.VI13MivF9kQ http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wsb.208/abstract http://www.wvdnr.gov/hunting/pdffiles/ursu-20-02-09.pdf http://journalstar.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religions-differ-on-attitudes-toward-hunting/article_41dc63bf-e9e0-500e-b761-023188034338.html https://books.google.com/books?id=vjS6ihUnjfQC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=attitudes+toward+hunting+and+hunters&source=bl&ots=lJ3ttiJw0h&sig=MoPNDKaVtbVo9RgJejFs4scpu2Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bXeNVMa0GtGayATS8ICQDA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBDge#v=onepage&q=attitudes%20toward%20hunting%20and%20hunters&f=false http://www.bearbiology.com/fileadmin/tpl/Downloads/URSUS/Vol_10/Miller_Miller_McCollum_Vol_10.pdf http://www.dnr.state.il.us/nrab/children/future_hunting.pdf CONTESTS http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/coyote-hunting-contests-banned-california-state-prohibits-prizes-killing http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/senator-avella-protests-upcoming-crow-hunting-contest http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/16/us/coyote-hunt-splits-animal-advocates-and-ranchers.html http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2014/jun/Exhibits/6_12_LTR_OPP_CoyoteHunting_RatliffChris_042914.pdf http://blog.syracuse.com/outdoors/2013/11/statewide_coyote_hunting_conte.html https://books.google.com/books?id=7DLWlKXtJ_8C&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=attitudes+toward+hunting+contests&source=bl&ots=v2upHRrOsp&sig=isFjolHE1RagP4vGLoZa19NCMgo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YXqNVODFCcufyATbiICIDA&ved=0CB8Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=attitudes%20toward%20hunting%20contests&f=false http://tovarcerulli.com/2011/08/the-sport-of-hunting-why-i-dont-call-it-that/ http://hinessight.blogs.com/hinessight/2011/01/boycott-cabelas-a-store-that-sponsors-coyote-cruelty.html

What? The California lead ban is brand new, it hasn't triggered any legislation fallout, lol.. . Furthermore, this nonsense about California being overly restricted regarding hunting needs to be put to rest. California hunting is no more restrictive than any other state, as a matter of fact, you can hunt doves in California.... Cant hunt cougars in California, well you cant hunt moose in NY. You cant hunt doves in NY either. Cant hunt bears in California with hounds, well you cannot in NY either... The list goes on and on. Michigan repealed its dove season only two years after it passed... Because the NRA, USSA, et al doesn't highlight that, you don't mention it. You don't seem to think outside the narrow box those organizations frame for you and you constantly encourage others to follow you. Do you know how many hunting-related en-con bills are pending RIGHT NOW in New York? If you know, then lets here it... Now that California has banned lead ammo anti-hunters have one less tool to use to usher public support to their cause. Additionally California will eventually spend less conservation funds on mitigating lead poisoning and that increase in funding can be used for other purposes, including ones that enhance or increase hunting opportunity.

Very often, there are inquiries about waterfowl hunting on and around Long Island. I also saw at least one inquiry about the Raritan Bay. I do not live in the region; however it is well-known that Long Island has world class waterfowl hunting. Yet many local hunters do not know where they can hunt and it appears local authorities are not forthcoming about inquiries by hunters. I am guessing that local experienced hunters and guides do not freely give out this info. The DEC may not want to answer grey areas of the law pertaining to local ordinances out there. There are a surprising number of private hunt clubs, waterfowl conservation chapters and organizations, as well as retriever clubs on Long Island. I came across some info about one particular municipality which has a hunter access program in place, and the local politians are waterfowl hunters. It is important LI hunters note that it is possible to put hunters in office in your region, and once there, keep them in office. But that’s not what this is about. There also may be other municipalities, park, etc., and/or DEC waterfowl access programs that are available to hunters. Information about these may be somewhat guarded, and that is understandable to a point. Most waterfowl hunting programs are structured to distribute hunting opportunity and provide a quality hunt by spreading hunters out and managing hunting pressure as not to disperse birds. It is possible the “waiting list” is so large that people aware of these areas already don’t get in enough and therefore further advertising is not done. That is why local hunters must launch grassroots efforts to expand these programs all over LI, as there is enough good waterfowl habitat/water to accommodate many hunters. It is my understanding however, that some municipalities have ordinances out to where in the water is considered their jurisdiction. Some hunters have even claimed to be harassed by law authorities at boat launches, etc... Anyway, we got much to do in NY. Here is the info I have come across: Rich Franks and Albert Tuzzolo our Southampton Town Bay Constables who are hunter safety instructors Youth Waterfowl Hunt at Hubbard County Park Youth Waterfowl Hunt at South haven Park

Very often, there are inquiries about waterfowl hunting on and around Long Island. I also saw at least one inquiry about the Raritan Bay. I do not live in the region; however it is well-known that Long Island has world class waterfowl hunting. Yet many local hunters do not know where they can hunt and it appears local authorities are not forthcoming about inquiries by hunters. I am guessing that local experienced hunters and guides do not freely give out this info. The DEC may not want to answer grey areas of the law pertaining to local ordinances out there. There are a surprising number of private hunt clubs, waterfowl conservation chapters and organizations, as well as retriever clubs on Long Island. I came across some info about one particular municipality which has a hunter access program in place, and the local politians are waterfowl hunters. It is important LI hunters note that it is possible to put hunters in office in your region, and once there, keep them in office. But that’s not what this is about. There also may be other municipalities, park, etc., and/or DEC waterfowl access programs that are available to hunters. Information about these may be somewhat guarded, and that is understandable to a point. Most waterfowl hunting programs are structured to distribute hunting opportunity and provide a quality hunt by spreading hunters out and managing hunting pressure as not to disperse birds. It is possible the “waiting list” is so large that people aware of these areas already don’t get in enough and therefore further advertising is not done. That is why local hunters must launch grassroots efforts to expand these programs all over LI, as there is enough good waterfowl habitat/water to accommodate many hunters. It is my understanding however, that some municipalities have ordinances out to where in the water is considered their jurisdiction. Some hunters have even claimed to be harassed by law authorities at boat launches, etc... Anyway, we got much to do in NY. Here is the info I have come across: Rich Franks and Albert Tuzzolo our Southampton Town Bay Constables who are hunter safety instructors Youth Waterfowl Hunt at Hubbard County Park Youth Waterfowl Hunt at South haven Park

This entire, thread, I have been avoiding confronting you about your statements. However, I don't appreciate after being presented with the obvious, it is ignored and skipped over. I posted several links, including a video, in this thread that clearly show the nationwide legislation, including in the state of NY about hunting contests is driven by both the public's lack of appreciation for such contests and the attitude of hunters. You offer no "proof" that so-called elitists and/or advocates of green ammo have driven hunting contest ban proposals. Yet you say and/or imply that over and over. The reality is people like Curm, who talk to birding groups are winning over non hunters. People who act like the hunters in the video and/or push unscientific premises while claiming that science is on their side, are not going to win over wildlife enthusiasts or people who do not hunt. The majority of parents which are unfamiliar with hunting, will not be sold on their child becoming a hunter if they believe he / she will develop into an adult that behaves the way some hunters do, including the pick up truck ornaments... And nobody trying to foster cooperation between conservationists and hunters bad mouths either one to the other. However,to deny that there are issues with many hunters would be about as wise as denial of the impacts of lead ammo. According to you, a lead ban would trigger a cascade of legislative events leading up to the prohibition of hunting. You keep saying / implying that lead bans will fuel additional anti hunting legislation. Do you know how ridiculous that statement is? We keep telling you the reality is actually the exact opposite. The use of lead ammo alienates potential supporters of hunting and leverages the anti hunting movement. Discontinuation of the use of lead ammo would remedy that.

They are utilizing You Tube and the News Network (Holley SS): https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2oKE6ysZKD0

Yes.

Dredged up about the Holley Squirrel Slam: https://www.facebook.com/pages/STOP-Squirrel-Slam-in-Holley-NY/183371988453687 http://www.whec.com/article/stories/s3335628.shtml

The NY Times butchered the crow down people. That is why the NY Farm Bureau does spokes person training. In the past, the procedure was to let the wildlife departments do the talking. That isn't practical anymore. That reminds me, Culver, if Andy Revkin from the NY Times wants to interview anyone from Holley, make very careful statement. I suggest you dredge up the article he wrote about the crow down last year and expect a similar line of questions. I would not be sure if an interview should be refused either, because then he will just fill in the blanks, the crow down dude did interview, but was not forthcoming and it seems the Times filled in the blanks. We had a kid from an Ohio College paper post on NYDH's Face book page soliciting for dove hunters to interview. We immediately deleted the post and I called him and offered to answer his questions. He said he would call me back with the interview, but he never did. On that initial phone call I had some questions for him, and his response seemed to indicate that he was constructing an article to show that "there are no dove hunters in Ohio". Well, if you read our website, you know we have a chart about that, which includes Ohio, and shows there are many dove hunters in that state, and, they kill a lot of doves. I simply emailed him the link. Never heard back.

What you are saying would normally be true. However, there is a significant and measurable (its been measured) number of people entering hunting because of this. Even some state wildlife agencies, one example being Texas Parks, and Wildlife are leveraging the foodie movement. The DEC should too... More people entered hunting because of this than because of Duck Dynasty. That is another story in itself. The Robertson clan had an immense opportunity to promote hunting, yet they chose only to promote themselves. Worse, they went off on at least one politically incorrect rant...

Here is what I dredged up in cyberspace: (besides the rigor mortus, I forgot about the X in the eyes) http://bqekeeper.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/1836908_10201654955832486_1944939023_o.jpg Just shy of 35,000 signatures: http://www.care2.com/causes/new-york-continues-its-animal-blood-bath-trend-with-upcoming-crow-down.html

This is about the senate sponsor of the bill to ban contests. We have discussed him at length. He is also on the senate environmental conservation committee. This is one of the smaller groups that have him in his pocket. I chose group because its name is very explicit. https://www.facebook.com/pages/NYC-Animal-Advocates-for-Tony-Avella-for-New-York-State-Senate/134401396609613

In post 67, I described an advertisement used by HUNTERS for a contest. Do you think that advertisement reinforces the image of blood thirsty killers that you speak of?

I don't have it. The antis (actually most were somewhat neutral people) plastered it all over the internet last year when this topic was boiling. They didn't like it. A rough description would be cartoon-like drawings of dead or dying crows (various stages of leg stiffness). The name alone "crow down" no doubt irritated them as well. These things throw gas on the fire and are used as propaganda props for them to pass around.

That would be pretty tough... What can I say, you leave food on the table you get ants, that doesn't mean don't eat at the table...

Exactly. And even if not under the radar, make the names and the artwork on the advertisements non offensive...