Jennifer

That's what the deer do every year. That's why traditionally the overwhelming majority of deer are taken on opening day. The fact that after opening day (opening morning actually) they hunker down and have to be kicked in the butt to get them moving is nothing new. And they don't have to be shot at to go into this "hunkered down" mode. It's just what deer do as a defense when they feel their woods is being invaded. It's also one of the main reasons why so many hunters begin to claim that all the deer have been exterminated... . Doc I agree with this for deer that are used to undisturbed (or mostly undisturbed) woods. Or, perhaps more accurately, woods only disturbed by people not 'acting sneaky' ... deer and other animals can absolutely 'read' behavior to some extent, and a guy sneaking through like a predator will often get a different reaction than someone hiking along, riding a mountain bike, etc. The property I hunt, I hunt from Sept 1st straight on through... squirrel and especially turkey when it opens up. And not just once or twice but several times a week as the weather holds. So, people invading their areas and 'acting sneaky' is nothing new to these deer. Sure if they get kicked often out of one area they will avoid it ! But (the three of us) is nothing new to them It's been my observation that the habits of the deer where I hunt tend to be more concerned with food, weather, and of course breeding. Right now, as in years past, the sudden snow and cold that we've gotten since Thursday has them pushed down low, around the houses. Though sometimes it's hard to age tracks in the snow depending on conditions, they don't lie about where the deer have been. Sadly right now they are all hugging down low in the thick patches around people's homes, and out into the fields and swampy areas where we cannot hunt (I live close to the PA border). We've only cut two tracks in the last 4 days up in the area where we can hunt.. the population is still around but all of them are down low right now (where I am). Of course each area is different and what I've observed is only true for here!

I hunt in 9X and it's been very quiet here too. Very few shots so far. I've been out nearly every day and have only seen three deer all season (running at a distance). The weather has been miserable; windy, windy, windy and then in the last two days we are having serious flooding (my township is in a state of emergency). It's the only reason I am at a computer right now instead of in the woods... the roads are closed.

I've been skunked this year too. I can't go out every day due to work but I've been out chasin' turkeys 7 days this season, sun up till set. For whatever reason I've never been able to really pattern the birds here as they seem to follow a different routine daily and change roosting spots often. I found a heavily used roosting area and even that hasn't helped me this year. None of the birds want to talk, either... and I think I know why. Nearly every time we've called this year we've had fox or coyotes come running to the turkey calls! I bet the birds learned quickly not to talk too much if it brought a predator running each time. This is the first year that's happened to us.

Right on. There are fanatics that go too far in any group of people. The few that are too fanatical or step over the line to do something illegal give a bad name to the general population. Some of my 'yoga, zen, green tea' friends actually support my hunting a great deal, preferring the ethics of wild game to poorly treated mass-farmed meats. I could be considered a hippie, green-tea type of person myself by some actually..!

This is really cool! Only about 45 miles south of me (as the crow flies). I'd love to go down and get photos of them to paint sometime. I can't tell you how delighted I'd be if they kept expanding north up here... even if I couldn't hunt them in my lifetime due to their population, what a treat to hear and see them!!

Yum! http://early-onset-of-night.tumblr.com/post/1206666159/say-hello-to-mechanically-separated-chicken-its

I'm an artist, self-employed, and some contract work. I know that when I tell people that they get mental images of eccentric fru-fru type of people, but let me tell you that I work harder and longer hours then I ever did in a 'normal' 9-5 job, haha. I do a bunch of stuff, recently mostly wildlife painting and I have been entering hunting stamp competitions (such as duck stamps).

We're sort of weirdos in this but we essentially have two 'zones'-- our finished basement and the first floor. I work from home and am in the basement all day, and I have parrots in the basement as well. We heat with anthracite rice coal. The stove itself is in the basement and we keep the downstairs about 62, all the time, and the upstairs is colder; anywhere from 58-52 in the clutches of winter. By keeping these temperatures constant the stove never has to 'catch up' and plugs along quite nicely. My house is smaller and despite it being cooler, we sleep comfortably under a ton of blankets and the only other thing to do upstairs is use the kitchen, which warms me up anyhow. Our heating costs are low, I think we buy about $600 worth of coal a year and that gets us by from October into the end of May. Last year we had 1/4 ton leftover and it doesn't go bad! We also have new windows and insulate very well.

Isn't that the truth! On opening day we cut some fresh scratchings just after flydown and followed them trying to catch up with the flock. They were scratching right in the road the whole way so we knew that we weren't just spooking them. 2 miles later and they crossed onto posted land where we couldn't follow and we hadn't caught up with them. We went back to the flydown area in the afternoon and hung around, hoping they'd come back to roost but never saw a feather or heard a peep!

Haha, I know you guys are just joking, but I think it's great that she expressed interest! Even if she can't draw it at 35, with practice she might. Or, get her started with a rifle/shotgun first. I have some health issues and am not terribly strong for a girl so I may not ever be able to bowhunt but I have a great time with my shotgun every year. We need to encourage interested 'newbie' hunters as long as they are doing it for the right reasons.

I'm no where near you so I regret that I can't help put you on birds, but here are a few things you can try if you aren't already. By the way, don't feel bad, I've been out after them for a good 30 or 35 hours myself since the season opened and have been skunked too. This is despite scouting all of Sept. and Oct. trying to pattern some birds (no luck there!!). Sometimes a few years pass before I get the opportunity to take one, so don't loose heart. I still love it. Turkeys tend to prefer mixed woods. This is not always the case but it is a trend. They will go where the food is, and for a turkey that can be a lot of different things! When it's warmer, they love to pick bugs in fields (especially pastures, around here). They like most any woodland nut or seed, and insects they find in the leaf litter. If the beech trees where you live are producing nuts with meat inside (they are all hollow over here this year) then that is a good place to check. If there is food on them, they often work ridges and if the food is abundant will even happily walk and feed in logging roads, where their main form of defense (their eyesight!) is best. This year 90% of the scratchings I've found have been from birds working right down the logging/atv/whatever roads. As you hunt, look for turkey scratchings. These are areas where they feed where they scratch away the leaf litter and other woodland debris to feed. Depending on the weather, it can possible to 'age' the scratchings and judge if they were made that day or not. Look for turkey droppings in the area of scratchings and you can sort of get an idea of age this way as well (how fresh is the poo?). Hens tend to make round droppings whereas jakes and gobblers make "J" shaped droppings. Checking out the number of scratching in an area as well as the gender of the droppings can give you an idea as to what type of birds were working the area. Hunting a flock with hens and yearling birds is often more successful in the fall because they are more apt to respond to kee-kee runs. Everyone likes a big gobbler, sure, but there is nothing like breaking a big flock of birds and calling one back in! You can tell which direction a turkey was pointed when they dug, too. The leaves are raked backward toward their tails. If you find a lot of scratchings that all go the same way, the chances are good that the turkeys were all traveling in the same direction and feeding as they went. A group of scratchings that point every which way is usually a flock that is milling around and feeding in an area. If you find scratchings, pay attention to see if you can tell if there are old scratchings along with the new. This is a sign that the birds are returning to that area to feed again and again and may be part of their daily pattern. Another thing this could mean is that they may have a roost area nearby. Birds tend to feed rather heavily as soon as they fly down/just before they fly up if there is good food in the area. They sort of mill around and wait for the others to group up before heading out on their daily travels. If you find an area that has old, new, and many scratchings that don't seem to go in a certain area, this is a good place to check out and listen pre-dawn or just at sunset when they go to roost. A still, quiet afternoon/evening is a good time to stop and just listen and see if you can hear them fly up. Their wings make a loud and distinct 'whoom' noise like a giant grouse in slow motion! Sometimes they will talk quietly to each other when they roost too. When hunting an area where I don't know where the turkeys are (this sadly has been the case this year!) I will get to the woods before sunrise, I try and plan it so that I can get into the woods and in a good area to listen as the sky starts to get that blue color that tells you that daylight is coming. Keep an eye on the treeline for big black blobs! Then I'll listen (if this darn wind ever stops, it's been terrible lately) and see if anyone is gonna chat it up while on the roost. In the fall it's more common that flocks will talk once they fly down, to gather up and be on their way, but sometimes you can hear them chat quietly as the dawn comes. As flydown time approaches I will often try a few calls and some kee-kees (this is 'I'm lost where are you?' call, momma hens often respond the strongest to this) to see if I can get a bird to answer. Other than that, I will 'still hunt'... that is, walk a few steps, stop and listen. If it's a dry day out and the leaves are crunchy you will often hear them moving before you see them. This is good because turkeys have remarkably good eyesight and if you see them there is a good chance they will see you too! Remember to be safe; assume that every turkey call you hear is 'another guy'. Call the birds to you, don't stalk them, and always be aware a guy could try and stalk your call so keep safe. If you are on public land (or anywhere really) and you are working some birds in to a call, it's worth the expense to buy one of those blaze orange tree bands and put it on or near the tree you are sitting at, to help let other hunters know you are there. Stationary blaze orange on a tree usually won't bother turkeys a bit. Best wishes! There's nothing like fall turkey hunting. I far prefer it over spring. I hope something here helps.

I don't have a lot on here yet, but you can see some of my work on my 'blog': http://featherduststudios.blogspot.com/

I hunt mostly in 9X as well.

Doc, Many, many pages back you asked about a turkey's color vision. I just today read this thread (what a whopper!!) so forgive the very late response. Here is an article in color vision in birds: http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/17B.html In short, it is understood by science that birds actually see a greater spectrum of colors than we humans do, and some species see well into the ultraviolet range of the spectrum. As an avid turkey hunter, I can attest that turkeys have about the most keen eyesight in the woods and sure do see blaze orange, and sometimes it seems like they see it from miles away! Deer are dichromats, we humans are trichromats, and turkeys are tetrachromats. This means, essentially, that deer see the least amount of color information, where birds see the most. Like all other animals, including ourselves, it is movement that causes the most problems. I have had turkey approach orange tree bands and the like in the woods... they seem about as alarmed by them as they do hot pink survey ribbon that everyone uses... which is to say, not at all. The moment an orange hat or vest moves though, and zoom, they are outta there! For this reason we own a few of those 'safety' bands which are blaze orange and are meant to tie around the tree you are sitting at the base of. Deer, being dichromats, don't see color nearly the way we do. They see movement, and shapes better than any color. If you are wearing blaze orange against a dark stand of trees or hemlocks, you will stand out to them! Break the blaze orange up with black camo pattern (my orange suit is so old that such things didn't exist when it was purchased, so we used black fabric paint to draw lines and blotches on it) and make sure you are not silhouetted and the deer are going to have a very hard time making you out. Combine this with not moving, and your biggest problem is the deer scenting or hearing you, not spotting you. Being silhouetted or against a contrasting 'background' will make you stand out to a deer, blaze orange or full camo! Based on my experiences and what we know about deer vision today, I feel I can be as safe as possible in my head to toe blaze orange suit, and still go unseen most of the time by deer, especially when choosing a place to set up. Obviously full camo makes this easier, but it is not impossible with blaze orange by any means. Deer will walk right up to your blaze orange.. if it is broken up visually to them, you are not silhouetted, and you are not moving.

I'm new to this forum. After searching online for what happened to my old haunt (empirehunting) since last spring, I finally found a link leading here and I'm glad I did. I recognize a few names floating around from that other site too! Glad to see you again. A little about me: I have hunted in Cattaraugus/Allegany counties since I was of legal age to do so, and before that I used to shuffle around in the woods with my dad since I was 5. I've since married and a lot of folks find it very amusing that I was the one to get my husband to start hunting (and not the other way around)! I am strongly grounded in being as safe as possible out in the field and have utmost respect for the animals and land that we share. I'm a wildlife artist by trade. So, hello everyone!