ManicOutdoorsman92

Never meant to come accross as "humans dont have an impact", more trying to say the environment is responding to our impact, and we dont like it because it interferes with our recreational activities, thus interfere with the course of nature to suit our own needs. Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Yes exactly, our imact effects the environment, thus leading to loss of habit, less places for the animals to go. So we come to an area, the environment is complety altered by us, the species apart of the old environment have to figure out how to adjust, only the most versatile survive. disease sickness predators , prey they all rise or fall throughout the years as its environment allows for one of the other to prosper or fall. If desease/death becomes abundant, somethings toxic in the environment, and my belief is those diseases are keeping things in check as whole. Hunters dont like the idea of that though, he wanted to kill that buck. Theres more to it than Food /habitat》EHD/CWD 》deer》coyotes, while i understand thats all most people on here can fathom. Theres a whole ecosystem at play. Imo we aught to spend less time focusing on the deer herd, and wonder how youre own species will fair given the decaying state of our environment. 10:1 says the deer outlive us Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Just because u learn a disease doesn't mean its anything new to the animals, I'll say it again they've been around for 3.5 million years u think these have just started in the last 100 years, and yes the animals will recognize if something is wrong with one and keep away if given the space, and in a normal ecosystem, with more predators, the sick and abandonded will almost certainly die without the safety of the herd. Its how a natural ecosystem preserves itself. The exception to the fenced areas would be in areas with high agriculture and ultimately less bedding cover, so theres plenty of food for the deer to prosper but they all end up bedding in the isolated chunks of cover leading to congestion, and ultimately disease in large numbers. Same concept though the deer dont have space to get away. I understand my ideology may not apply in areas like this (such as the midwest) but if the herd has the cover and the space to get away, you wont see disease affect much of the herd *as a whole* . If hunters out there would stop soaking up so much bs from the qdma, "its science"!, and learn a little more about basic biology and ecology, it'd put things in perspective, pick up something besides a hunting magazine Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Thought id add this bc of your post,this is my first buck, 2 1/2 yo this is my bow buck 1 1/2 yo, surely a major exception to that age but nonetheless Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

mother nature has already weeded out the weak in the whitetail herd, think of how long theyve been around, wild deer have accumulated the traits they need and have the genetic biodiversity necessary to live in a wild enviroment. Just because a deer has big antlers doesnt mean its generically superior, and small antlers inferior, people make this assumption imo bc they want a herd of deer with nothing but big bucks. I could even imagine having too large of a rack would even inhibit deer in some very thick environments. The fact that we as a species think we somehow know better, without taking into account these animals have been on earth for 3.5 million years the oldest deer species, is just down right ignorant. And to the CWD resisant gene.. deer farms, from my understanding, is the source of this disease, due to the deer being kept in enclosures. in a normal herd, the deer recognize " that ones fucked up" and get away, and dont allow the fucked up one near the rest of the herd, cant get away in an enclosure. People are only compounding problems, trying to come up with solutions to problems that nature has already solved. And the ultimate end, trophy bucks everywhere! Oh.. but its for the health of the herd Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

And thats my point, its not about good genes or herd health, it about big antlers. If you want ARs to see more big antlered deer then own that, down act like it will help everone out when this isnt your ambitions. ( btw these posts arent meant to attack soley you) I'm more addressing the " ARs will allow deer to mature, pass down genetics(only pertaining to antlers), and make a healthier herd" argument. You cant claim to know genetics and whats good or bad in that aspect when u only focus on antlers Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

We'll have more mature deer, less accidents and only at the cost of potential tag soup. Is very shallow considering everything else brought up on the subject. Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

why do hunters spewing this argument only equate antler growth to good genes, what about a thicker coat for colder climates, or something similar, genetics are MUCH more than antler size, but too often a large antlered deer have "good" genetics and small antlers "bad". This is a ridiculous notion and proves that in large part hunters like yourself are merely looking for larger antlered deer, and use a veil of "good genetics will be passed on to provide a healthier herd" to get their point across. To the herd managers out there what good genes do u work to keep in your herd, if all it has to do with is antler growth then your ambitions are clear Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Well that a pretty shallow selfish thought process if thats what u come up with Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Again how do more mature male deer equate to a healthier herd, every one keeps saying this without saying why, it is more natural for 4,5, 6 YO to breed but why is it healthier, what is damaging the herd by having the dominant 3 yo do the breeding instead. Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Fair enough, but even still I dont see how more mature males equates to herd health, while states with ARs will see older deer do the bulk of the breeding and that may be more natural, i imagine 2-3 yr-olds do the bulk here and they're health is just fine. Large deer here may not be easy to come by but theyre out there, but with less of them theres more opportunity for the 2-3 year olds to make a name with no big boy beating up on them. Its not an unhealthy herd because it has a different relative age structure. One can argue allowing deer to mature makes for a more natural, and it would be if there weren't so many things to interfere before that happens, mostly us agreed, by car or hunting. But its not fair to people out there to fill there freezer no you cant shoot that, its not fair to that kid whose first deer to walk in front of him is a fork or spike, god forbid he shoots it then he's done something wrong, THATS my issue. Trophy deer is perspective, just like ponds i fish some a 16 in bass is a good one others its average. If u kill a 160 in deer in a state with plenty of them it wouldnt be as special as one here, sure you be excited, but a deer like that comes out in ny, youre shitting a brick because theres no doubt its the biggest buck around for some distance Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

You know you can move to one of those states if u wish, seems that would be easier. My issue is not being able to shoot what i want as i will pass younger deer, my issue is controlling the vast majority of hunters who want that right. Given hunters/predation, environment and all factors involved in ecology the deer herd is where it should be. Yea, call me shallow or ignorant for stating this but the herd will only accommodate to its environment, and its the deforestation and farming and development that allowed those numbers to climb, and now we got a problem? The problem is theres a group of hunters out there who expect 160 class deer every season and if they arent seeing them theres a problem in the herd. Its all what the environment will allow. Will high numbers cause problems with illness yes, but only so many deer can occupy a partcular chunk before the others go elsewhere, because theres not enough food or space. Its not as if the deer will stay in this chunk until they're on top of each other causing disease, this will only happen in a fenced environment.Whatever excess in the herd will likely be killed by us hit by a car killed by a yote, and if theres space after all that, usually is, the up and comers take their place, natural checks and balances mr. science, its just basic ecology Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Or there will alot of miskaken yearlings shot. I shot small spike last year, i let it pass by thinking it was a young buck being all by its self, he saw me move and stared at me for the longest time all i saw were ears. He turned back and i drew and took the shot well i still could, and this was a bow. There will be mistaken deer and deer left in the woods because its not a legal kill. Theres so many issues that arise with ARs my biggest one is the fact that it affects a large majority of N.Y. hunters that dont support them, while AR supporters have the loudest voice they arent the majority. As to everbodys take on herd numbers, theres a hell of a lot at play there and its not as simple as "ARs will make a healthier herd", thats just nonsense. And as, someone stated before trying to manage a wild herd is a pipe dream Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

If i had access to more feilds id walk them more, not many ag fields on public land and the ones there get hit hard by shed hunters, gotta get there first and after time the race gets old, and i look elsewhere. But feilds have been productive for me in the past just gotta be the first to pick it up Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

A full day in the woods yielded nothing but wet socks yesterday. Got some new hunting areas figured out more, so thats always good Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

All the miles i walk i bet ive been walking past lots of antlers Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

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A better pic, a pretty thick six for sure Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

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Stopped to evalute what was clearly a bucks bed, hoping for his sheds i glance around, TINES through thou leaves! A half from last year and to my amazment the other side not 5 ft away, first set of the year, first time finding them so close together too Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Found a small half, I guess its a decent half being 2 points. Came across it more looking to find my way back to the car than looking for antlers, far from any ag feilds. Also found a dead 7 point, I'll get pics when that's clean. Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Correct me if I'm wrong...The Chinese actually tried this. It sorta worked for them...though aren't we one of the countries that their citizens come to " Vacation " in ...to supersede these pesky controls? BTW seeing I made this post and it says "makes me Laugh" This is another makes me laugh...big push to stop illegals and build the wall..which too bad, I agree with...We have yet to do what other intelligent countries have done some time ago...change our citizenship laws to correspond with the changing times of global movements and the ease there of. These countries grew a brain: "Governing", has nothing to do with government or politics for that matter, we are all governed by the forces of nature, but through the manipulation of so many things, we are under the impression that we got a handle on things Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Not quite all said and done 55", 4 1/4" between burr and brow, same between g2 and g3 and the brows 8", the longest tine, don't see that often. Looking at the map i may have an idea of where the other side may be, we'll see, hoping its not in the neighbouring fields, i really want the other side Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

No there's really no way to put it all together, between hunting, checking cams, shed hunting, the deers world is very big, and unless very consistent nearby food, things are gonna change year to year, and checking cameras, while addicting, can be your biggest issue pressuring the deer. Cameras help provided you leave them up long enough to get an idea of how the deer move without human pressure, but boots on the ground, time in the stand, and familiarity of your hunting grounds is key, but every bit of info you gain is a piece to the puzzle. I've recently established that a particular buck will rub the same trees on his route year to year, there will be trees in between they hit up but it seems they always seem they have a handful of trees they rub consistantly, so if you know of a good rub line keep tabs on it, get a rough idea of where the buck beds leave some cams up to help refine the info you gained scouting. Also a big mistake was putting my cams in areas that aren't really huntable, sure I'd get good bucks on cams but if I can't feasibly hunt them there it's not much use. Keep your cams on trails near your potential hunting area or stand site Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Found a massive half to an amazing 8 today, quite fresh. the brow on this is at least as long as the g2, without measuring my guess is 8 in. and great mass, by far my best 4pt shed, unfortunately I couldn't come up with the other side but haven't thrown in the towel on that yet. Also might add this is my second biggest shed altogether Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk