cwhite

Ramidawg. He has my vote.

Jimmy Big Time gets hooked up at least once a season on camera.

Thought of a title if you don't have one yet. Bullets and Bucks: It is my right to have both.

Last thing they'll be smelling is gun powder............................ ;D Usually its lights out and they don't get the chance to smell the gun powder when my hammer drops. I am kind of like a bear and fatten up around late summer in anticipation of those long hours fasting on stand or in the woods. If I am on a dawn to dusk hunt I will bring a banana, hershey's chocolate bar and of course a bottle of Mountain Dew. I really need to get off the Dew though.

I see a big buck contest as encouraging people to pursue and celebrate big bucks. I think a small buck contest is a tremendous lack of common sense and judgement. I'm sure that idea came from the kid who was picked last for kickball. I'm guessing he took up hunting and sucks at that too. Unfortunately some guys get tunnel vision and only see the glory that winning the contest brings and try to cheat to win. That isn't unique to hunting, cheating happens in nearly every competitive event ever thought up. Most poachers will poach regardless. Joe is right on with the record systems. They are to celebrate the animals not the "fame" comes with the harvest. I personally enter these contests and enjoy the comradery that they bring. I choose to ignore the negatives that were mentioned but I know they exist.

Lying in bed and hearing a gun blast down the road in one of your open hay meadows. Then the next day finding vehicle tracks in the frost going through the middle of your alphalpha hay meadow leading to blood and a gut pile then heading back to the road. Not only was the deer poached but the sonsabitches killed the alphalpha too. That really annoys me.

ny, the first 7 or 8 pages I read as tongue/cheek bantering. Guess it is all about perception. I saw it evolve into childish ranting and if I see it that way, I'm sure others do too. I can tell you this much, this thread added 1000+ hits on that video and that didn't need to happen. But ultimately, you're right and I don't want to add any more to this black eye on an otherwise excellent forum. I'll exclude myself from the playing on this thread and go back to the passing on yearlings (and now food plot) thread.

There, just finished the whole thread. All 18 pages. I think that this whole thread gives hunters as bad of a name as that infamous video that started it does. Seriously, a whole bunch of bickering, name calling, slander, etc.... you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Kind of makes me wonder if some of you guys will kill the Doctor because you don't agree with abortions. At first I was entertained, now I'm nauseated. I read the whole thing in one sitting and you know what, the guys defending the video weren't defending it on an ethical ground. Go back and start at the beginning. Becareful because some of you will feel foolish, at least I would. Blur and Pat Rockets got that it was in poor taste and a video like this gives a bad impression to nonhunters. Guilt by association. The only defense (which is a term loosely used) given was the fact that whether we like it or not Ramidawg didn't break a written law and had a legal right to do what he did. They agreed that it lacked common sense, decency, and respect. No one mentioned that it was a button buck, a fawn that he was so proud of killing. We as hunters know that he broke a hunters unwritten rule, respect for the game we pursue. This guy isn't a hunter and anyone with common sense will know that Ramidawg isn't a hunter, only a guy who shot a deer. What should have happened is a collective effort to go to his site and post our disapproval in the comment section of the video and move on. Instead we have a select group of guys carrying on on another public forum that can be viewed by anyone in the world. You don't need to be a member to read this thread. Whoever moderates this forum should seriously consider removing this thread from the site.

OK guys, I work midnights and have to go to bed. I didn't keep track of this thread for the past few days so now I am catching up and I am only up to page (or should I say Chapter) 7. Seriously, I can't seem to put the computer down. This is more entertaining than a slinky and a never ending flight of stairs. Damn you guys I need some sleep.

Not jumping on you ny, just stating that to me the million+ acres in the adk's and the land to the north is more than a VERY few areas. You did mention parts of the Adk's, but it is more like most of the Adk's. Based on other threads I've read I don't think people have an appreciation for the size of a 10,000 acre piece, let alone a million+ acre piece. That is a ton of land and should be more than categorized as "very few area's". Regardless, I think for the most part we have similar philosophies on managing deer for age and herd health. I like the benefits a food plot provides and you like natural feeding area's.

Very few area's? Try convincing any of the adk clubs, area's north of the adk's and area's near the great lakes that they don't have winter kill. I hunted Hemlock Lake (8N) a few years back and the year before had a terrible winter kill. Not every year has winter kill. It isn't an opinion, it is a fact that we lose deer during some winters, especially if they aren't supplemented. I supplement each year via food plots (I find that corn, soy, brassica's, and rye work best) because I can't predict which winter will be bad and which won't.

I forgot to introduce myself. I am a 34 year old married father of 2 boys. My oldest is 8 my youngest is 5. I primarily hunt Northern Franklin County, NY with my brother, father, and Grandfather. I also hunt in Eastern St. Lawrence county from time to time. I consider myself level headed and realistic. I try to look at both sides of things before making a decision or judgement. I'm a firm believer in passing yearling bucks and overall herd management but don't hold it against someone if their only opportunity for a deer is a yearling and they take the shot.

Canine Handler with US Border Patrol.

Whether you agree or not, supplemental feed in the form of food plots is part of the hunting culture now. And to be honest, since we started planting them the benefits far out weigh any negative. Other than the $150-200/acre average it costs us to plant them, I can't think of a negative. We see more and bigger deer and in the spring we don't find skeletons from winter kill. I will debate food plot benefits just as hard as I would the benefits of letting bucks grow up. Don't misunderstand me, I can see your point that it isn't traditional hunting. But I don't see it as unethical or lacking in sport. It also helps me make season last all year long.

In the fall of 2004 I was working in VT's Northeast Kingdom and saw a northern Quebec deer on the scales at a local gas station in Canaan, VT. It was better than 320 pounds dressed and this was one week after it was killed. That deer would have tipped the scales close to if not better than 400 pounds live weight. It had a 8 point 120" rack that looked tiny for the deer. Another monster I saw was a doe taken in Pittsburg, NH that dressed 189 pounds and that is no BS. It didn't look normal. I think it is Bergmann's Rule that says the further away from the equator the larger the body size. There are numerous bucks that dress out over 300 pounds taken in Canada each year. Not so many in the States. I personally prefer weight. But bigger deer usually have age and with age comes bigger racks. Unfortunately I'm not very good at getting big bucks, although I do have two that are members of the 200 pound club.

I have never seen a 400 acre food plot. In fact, I can't think of a 400 acre field anywhere in northern NY. I can't imagine a 1000 acre field. You're right that is unnatural.

Nice Pics. My Cuddeback had software issues this past fall so I wound up borrowing a camera from a guy I work with. It was a Reconyx Hyperfire HC 600. Turns out to be the best camera I ever used. It has no flash, LED light, IR light, blink or anything. It took great pics out to about 45'. I sound like a commercial. The problem with it is the set up is about $600. So I will be out walking the ditches collecting bottles to get the coin to purchase my own Reconyx. Has anyone else had the software issues with Cuddeback No Flash camera's? I know of 6 other camera's that went bad in the course of 5 weeks. I contacted the company and they want $150.00 to fix the camera.

I know your pain. We have nearly a dozen stands around our property lines. I can't blame the neighbors for taking advantage of our fields. It is a lot of work but we don't harbor hard feelings towards the neighbors. It comes with the territory I guess. nyantler, the only person we compete with is ourselves. We are constantly tweeking things to make them better. I think you misunderstood that part of my post. It wasn't directed at you or anyone for that matter. Just pointing out the drawing power of a food plot. I've found that a deer would rather eat on clover and chicory than twigs and leaves. Doc, I freely admit that I put plots in for my hunting benefit. But a significant consequence is the other things mentioned earlier. There is no doubt that they help the overall health of the animal. And you're right, damn it, if they want them back shell out the $$ and plant their own fields.

Food plots are an important piece to the QDM puzzle, not the DM puzzle. The benefits is proven and well documented. Body weights, winter mortality, fawn mortality, etc.... all benefit from food plots. Other species gain from food plots as well. Turkeys, rabbits, grouse, pheasants, etc.... We do 5 different plots anywhere from 1 to 5 acres each. Since we started these in 2007 we haven't had any winter kill that we can find, although the winters haven't been terrible. But the added feed is taking pressure off of the winter yard areas and allowing them to rebound from the harsh winters from earlier in the decade. We plant a 5 acre piece with corn and soy together. I plant the corn and fertilize it (with the planter) first then broadcast soy on top of the corn seed then roll the entire field with a cultipacker then broadcast 200 more pounds per acre of fertilizer. The soy seems to grow better this way and the corn doesn't seem to be stunted either. This gives me 10 acres of feed in a 5 acre area. The field yields about 20 tons of corn and 15 tons soybean, not to mention all the soy plant leaves that the deer munch on all summer and early fall. We do a 3 acre piece and a 1 acre piece to winter rye for late season green fields and winter thaw and early spring feed. Then we do a 2 acre clover field and a 1 acre brassica field. We rarely hunt directly over them, except for the corn/soy, I can't brag enough about the increased population we have and the increased body weights on younger deer. If you aren't on board with food plots then your neighbors are going to pull deer from your property to their food plots. I checked the corn/soy a couple days after christmas and I watched 35 deer walk into the field by 4pm and 3 of them were bucks still carrying antlers.

I suppose you won't fish for brookies in a beaver pond either. There are several area's that aren't fenced but might as well be. A bunch of islands are quite smaller than 10,000 acres. People hunt these naturally fence areas and considered "fair chase" hunting areas. A deer can't leave these islands without swimming for miles. I'm not trying to justify buying a hunt on a game preserve or advocating their deer as entries into big buck clubs. I'm saying that a hunter shouldn't be ridiculed if he took a free hunt on the game preserve. Especially if it has no effect of their wild state. 10,000 or 20,000 fenced acres won't change their behavior.

As a devils advocate I must say that from everything I have read most does have a 400 acre home range and bucks roam up to 4000 acres during the rut, so, it is safe to say that some of the deer on a 10,000 acre fenced ranch will rarely if ever see the fence in their lifetime. A deer in a 10,000 acre pen will be just as wild as the one that lives in my 200 acre chunk of woods. And the deer in my 200 acre chunk of woods aren't going stray 10,000 acres away unless they are in the back of my pickup. On my 200 acres, I know where they bed, where they eat, their escape routes when pressured and can guarantee people will see deer when I bring them hunting. For me to go kill any deer isn't a big challenge. I just don't have the control over the neighboring 9800 acres otherwise I would have tons of monsters roaming around too and they would be free range. I don't consider a 10,000 acre fenced ranch a "fenced hunt" but rather a gated hunting preserve. I don't see this type of hunt any different than an Anticosti Island or place like that. A small acre pen is a different story and completely unethical. I tell people who purchase these types of hunts to get some respect the animal and go butcher a cow if you need the meat. Honestly, if given for an opportunity to hunt a 10,000 acre gated preserve for FREE I would go as would the majority of people.

If it is northern tier, not only is he trespassing but he is also carrying a rifle during muzzleloader season.

Doc, I agree with you to a point and it is logical that the more bucks the harder it is on them during the rut. In the fighting, traveling and searching aspect I am sure it does wear them out. But that also means that a strong majority of the gals are bred during the peak of the rut. The majority of the "deer experts" say this gives them a longer recovery period before winter for these brutes who are starved and excersised out. Where I hunt our ratio by the 3rd week of October is about 12 does to 1 antlered buck. What my hunting party has noticed is that our lopsided ratio wears the buck out over a longer period of time with no recovery period before winter. They don't have to fight to get laid, but they have to tend to does for a couple months. I have seen anterless bucks locked on a doe, not a fawn, after Christmas. That has to be detrimental to their recovery and ultimately their existance in most places. We are fortunate enough to have the deer yard locally, plenty of winter food planted and don't have a winter kill problem. Buck, quit mumbling in your posts. Its hard to understand you. Isn't hunting (=pressure) a more mature animal part of the idea of QDM? When you get your DVD out can I get a signed copy?

Buck, you're right. Boys oh boys did you ever show me. I feel a right bunch of stupid now. Go ahead and save those big bucks from certain starvation by shooting all the little ones you can. Oh yeah, I watched your video and could only see an average looking buck running about 40 yards behind a blurry deer.

Buck, That big guy wasn't chasing the baby, he was running for his life because you had already started shooting at the baby so he (the big one) could make the winter. Nope, I've never seen it during the rut. Never seen it on a hunting show either for that matter. In fact I rarely see a large dominant buck come running around until the doe is just about standing hot. Then he shows up like a ghost and all the little guys get the hell out of dodge. A yearling buck wants nothing to do with a mature buck or his date. Do I need to spell it out for you? Oh wait, I just did. But what do I know? I've only had older bucks to hunt for the past 3 seasons.