wildcat junkie

He gets a lot of 200yd practice in his back yard in the Bronx.

I crossed one item off a few years ago. I got to ride in the cab of a steam locomotive. You can do that at STEAMTOWN NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE in Scranton PA. It costs $35 FOR A 30 MINUTE RIDE IN THE CAB & it is amazing what goes on the cab when under steam power.

Cam we get off the HPV subject please!

As usual you are confused. A 3" maximum PBR has nothing to do with a "3" MOA spread" The 8X57 Mauser shots a 3" maximum PBR of 270 yds @ a .5 MOA spread. With my .280 that was extended to 310yds. I shot my 1st CF rifle in 1958. How old were you then? I started studying trajectory a few years later after reading some of Jack O'connor's works. Do you know who Jack O'connor is? (without google) "Holdover" requires range estimation and the time involved in such. 3" maximum PBR does not require range estimation unless the target is beyond the PBR. On a deer I can tell if that is the case when the animal fits within the vertical gap of my duplex reticle. Then I can hold over & unless the animal is over 350 yds I can still hold on hair, even farther with the .280. Quite trying to paint maximum PBR as a disadvantage it isn't. And what the hell does aim small miss small have to do with this. I aim for the center of the vitals. How many deer have you shot @ over 200yds in the last 15 years? I would guess that I have shot about 15 but it could be a few more, I have lost track at this point.

Yes deer hunters that don't know how to sight in their weapons for maximum PBR on a 9" vital area hold high or low. I used to do that too.

I think the general parameters of the topic being discussed here are medium/big game that will have a vital area of 9" to 12" out to distance of 300yds or a bit more..

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed in the windage/elevation dials on the new VX-2 3-9x33 I just bought. No way to index your zero setting.

I have amber prescription shooting glasses. They add a great deal of depth when looking into brush & brighten up the woods like it is ten minutes earlier than the actual time in the evenings.

grampy you are cutting off the last ] in the quote text.

That sacrilegious!

You can adjust the focus for you vision with or without the glasses.

The power does not change. All that changes is the eyepiece focus which is adjustable.

Tough to find a usded Leupold cheap. Nobody gets rid of them & they are warranted the same as new. Wish you luck.

For big game one can use a simple duplex reticle& calculate range by the average size of the animal & the space between the heavy posts. A simpler version of the 4-W theory I think.

Svaroffski.

Generally speaking, the 220 will be much slower Mv & will shoot lower than the 150 if the zero settings aren't changed. Even 2 bullets of the same caliber & weight that have different profiles will shoot differently. A 220gr polymer tipped boat tail bullet will shoot "flatter" than a similar caliber 220gr round nose even if they have the same Mv. Drag (BC factor) will make the RN bullet slow down quicker. The lower the BC, the more drag. If you are referring to the 220 zeroed @ 200yds compared to a 150gr zeroed @ 200yds, the 220 will have a higher POI @ 100yds than the 150 does. t will require more "lob" than the lighter, faster bullet.

All of the factors listed above makes any per-designated "Ballistic Drop Compensator" reticles little more than a feel good option if the user expects any precise POA compensation. And, using factory Mv data won't work either as I have seen Mv vary as much as 200 fps from published stats. That goes for reloading data too. A person using a duplex reticle and a trajectory table for their particular combination coupled W/a range finder will be far more accurate. But now I am splitting hairs. .A mil-dot reticle merely gives one a reference for hold over/windage and is more precise than a duplex, but if you know the subtend distance of the gap between the heavy portions of the duplex one can also use that for the same purposes. The "gap" of most duplex reticles at 9x will cover 5-7" @ 100yds depending on brand. (that same gap @ 3x would be 15-21" @ 100yds) .This can be used to estimate yardages. A mature WT buck will average about 16-18" from brisket to whithers. If the buck fills the entire gap of the duplex @ 9x the deer is approximatly 300yds + away & some hold over might be needed unless your maximum PBR is that distance.. If the gap only covers part of the distance, just hold for center of the vitals & shoot. As I stated earlier the same gap can be used to judge the relative age/size of the deer if it is antlerless & alone. It takes some practice, but if one is familiar W/the optics, it becomes a second nature. Way back when I started deer hunting the rule was 3" high @ 100yds, but 100yds is not the high point in the trajectory of most medium bore medium power CF rifle cartridges. In most cases that 'high point" is around 150yds. Sighting in 3" high @ 100yds would make the bullet somewhere around 4" high @ 150. That might be a good trajectory for Elk or Moose, but it is a little too much leeway for my liking on smaller animals like deer.

You also must factor in how high the sights are above the bore axis.

^^^^Exactly!^^^^ Over the past 16 years I have killed numerous whitetails from 75 to 250 yards, (most of them between 200 & 240yds) all with center of vitals holds. Only one required a 2nd shot when it took step & turned as I squeezed off the 1st shot.

Nobody's splitting hairs, just trying clear up some serious misconceptions about bullet trajectory. Since I wasn't getting through explaining the concept, I tried posting a picture.

If you are referring to my "thumbnail" I was merely trying to point out the impossibilty of a 270 that is sighted in @ 2 1/2" high @ 100yd being 4 1/2" high @ 50yds. Sighting in for maximum 3" PBR IS simplifying things. It allow one to hold in the center of the vitals to over 300yds W/something like a .270. There is no need to worry about bullet drop within those ranges & one could still hold on the hair to 400yds sighted in thus.

Maybe so, but you are the guy that says that if you sight your rifle in 2 1/2" high at 100yds you will be 4 1/2" high at 50 yds which is a physical impossibility.

1 /2 " high at 50yds for a zero @ 100yds would be about right for a 22Lr. If your 270 is indeed 1 1/2" high at 50 yds it would be 4" high at 100yds, over 5 1/4" high at 180yds, zeroed at 325. I think you are confusing the distance above the muzzle in a horizontal plane with the LOS which is where you see your crosshairs on the target. Sighted in 2 1/2" high @ 100yds would indeed have the bullet 1.7" above the muzzle in a horizontal plane at 50yds, but the bullet would strike .1" above the LOS. All of this depends on how high your rings are, what you ACTUAL Mv is & what the ballistic coefficient is of your bullet. Y your BDC reticle has no way to take all of those variable into consideration.

Here is the best I can do unless someone can tell me how to past a sceenshot direct. The vertical axis is distroted to fit 420 yda into the graph. Bullet starts out 1.6" below the LOS (center-line of the sight axis) At 50yds it is 1/10" high At 100yds is is 2 1/2" high At 150yds it is 3" high At 261yds it is ZERO At 306yds it is 3" low At 420yds it is 16" low On your 420 yard shot you would have held about 1/3 the distance from brisket to whithers above the back of the deer for a center of vitals hit.

No it would not because the bullet it still on an upward trajectory. It does not reach the maximum trajectory until about 150yds. The bullet starts out 1 1/2" low (below the centerline of you scope).@ the muzzle crosses the LOS about 30 yds & will top out 3" high @ about 150 yds. I am trying to find a way to post the trajectory chart for a 130gr .277 Ballistic Tip @ 3100 fps, scope 1.6" above the bore center-line, maximum plus or minus 3" trajectory. I have run the calcs but need to figure how to post the page. Hang on for a few minutes.