What to take out????

[The Silent bang]

I’m a little confused, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice??  This is the first year I’m hunting at a new location and it’s going to be my spot for the long hold. Its in 3A, there are no DMP in my area but with the bow I have antler and antlerless tags (2 ea.) of them for my brother and myself. I’m reading up on the area and from what I read on the DEC website, they’re stating that there are low deer numbers per square mile in my area.

 

This is what I read from the DEC:

 

         “Buck take in this unit has never reached the former objective of 3.0 bucks per square mile established in 1992, despite few or no DMPs issued in most years. The minimal antlerless harvest during bow and muzzleloader season each year, combined with periodic winter mortality events, are sufficient to hold the population near its current level. The 2011 and 2012 buck take dropped below previous levels due to an antler restriction that was implemented in the southern half of the unit in 2011 and in the full unit in 2012. The unusually mild winter of 2011-12 likely had a positive impact on the deer population, possibly allowing for some modest population growth. As usual, there will be no DMPs available for the 2013 season.

WMU 3A

Area = 694 mi2

Buck Take Objective = antler restriction unit

2012 Buck Take = 1.0 bucks harvested per mi2

2012 Total Deer Take = 1.2 deer harvested per mi2”

 

My brother and I set up some food plots and I have cameras around my property.  One day we saw, all at the same time, 6 fawn, 3 big does’ and a spike feeding. Overnight, we saw one big buck that we only caught on the camera traveling alone.

 From what I’m reading about deer and the rut, bucks will travel to mate so we’re hoping with all the does’ around they'll attract more bucks. But now with the numbers we’re getting from the DEC website, we’re nervous to take any does’.  What I’m trying to ask is: what do you guys think about it?  If we take a fawn, we might kill a future buck. If we take a doe that could be pregnant, that could possibly take three deer out in the area. What would you guys do to have a good hunting year and keep the area growing for the future???? From what I’m seeing based on the statistics, and from what I see in my backyard, the numbers don’t sound right?  My brother and I are just worried about getting down to the level that the DEC is stating.  Thanks

[Phillygunns]

The question is "are you meat hunters or trophy hunters?" If you kill one doe you still have the fawns that will breed. A fawn born early in the spring can come into esterus in the winter rut. Give the spike a pass this year. Bucks will roam long distances during the rut to find does in season. So no worries about the does getting bred if you take the buck. You may want to limit your take according to the population you have seen on your property.

[Dorsilfin]

I hunt 3A..  its slim pickings..  I usually head down to 3M for my Doe's for meat and im still waiting on my catskill buck.. 3a is sparse   very sparse   that being said any deer that gives me 3 points on 1 side is considered a shooter for me.

[The Silent bang]

Good to know I dident know that about the fewns. Thanks guys ill think about that. I use to hunt 3m by might have to do that.

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

Personally I would pass up the does and skippers, as you stated you could potentially eliminate 3 deer from next years equation. Maybe two bucks. I am no biologist though! What is the reason for the low population, lack of forage, winter kill?

[DROpTINE]

10-15 years ago by my property we were having low deer numbers being seen. we decided to not take a doe for 2 years at my camp...we also talked with other clubs/landowners/hunters in the area and in an effort to help the deer, we all said no one take a doe... after the 2 years, the ammount of deer seen was amazing, it was as if the herd came back... Since then, we have had excellent deer seasons, resulting in bucks and does taken as well as overall great sign and sightings of deer every day. This is in 4p Delaware county...

 

I would never tell someone what to shoot. Everyone has different goals.if you shoot a small fawn or yearling deer, you are taking a chance taking out a buck for the following year.  Be selective... If you are going to take a doe, i'd try to take the biggest most mature of the doe... The younger ones (fawns) will be fine, (survive)... if you do decide to take a smaller doe, that deer will not make or break your area... It has to be on the collective as a whole for your area..

 

 

 

you are doing it right..food plots for the deer... during the rut, the does will be looking for food. If they go into heat and a buck is nearby, he will be chasing them around...

 

keep 2 other things in mind..... Predators may be a huge factor in your area...They have chased deer off my property before and not until we handled the coyotes did we see the deer come back...

 

the other thing is that for as many deer you have seen, there are probably twice the ammount of deer you havent seen in your area...

 

i hope i was some sort of help....good luck and shoot straight

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

Drop you touched on coyotes, some say they aren't as bad as what we make them out to be, I say horse****. I read a study on a place in Canada where there were virtually no deer and inundated with coyote. They slaughtered the coyotes and the deer came back like 750% within so a few years or something crazy like that. Wouldn't doubt it if the same thing was going on in 3A.

[Dorsilfin]

Drop you touched on coyotes, some say they aren't as bad as what we make them out to be, I say horse****. I read a study on a place in Canada where there were virtually no deer and inundated with coyote. They slaughtered the coyotes and the deer came back like 750% within so a few years or something crazy like that. Wouldn't doubt it if the same thing was going on in 3A.

 

I had 3 does prego this year, only 1 fawn made it.  I have coyotes on my cameras around the property..  Sure a single coyote or two will probably not take on a mature doe/buck but they will run the herd around and spook up/run down the fawns.

 

So i agree 100% that coyote's greatly impact the deer population.

[DROpTINE]

If anyone thinks coyotes do not have an impact on deer they are only kidding themselves.

They are a smart predator and although most think they stick to smaller prey, they in fact go after deer whenever they can.

Last year my buddy took one out chasing 2 doe past his stand during opening week.

The following week coyote tracks were all over my property and our deer sign was minimal at best. The coyotes moved out and the deer came back week 3.

Now that the pelt is not required to be sealed, I hope more hunters take out coyotes when given a chance.

I have witnessed 2 coyotes chasing a deer out of the woodbine and across a field. They worked him a few hundred yards to a corner of a field where, 4 other coyotes were waiting. These yotes drove the deer right into the mouths of the pack. It was incredible to watch.

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[DROpTINE]

10-15 years ago by my property we were having low deer numbers being seen. we decided to not take a doe for 2 years at my camp...we also talked with other clubs/landowners/hunters in the area and in an effort to help the deer, we all said no one take a doe... after the 2 years, the ammount of deer seen was amazing, it was as if the herd came back... Since then, we have had excellent deer seasons, resulting in bucks and does taken as well as overall great sign and sightings of deer every day. This is in 4p Delaware county...

I would never tell someone what to shoot. Everyone has different goals.if you shoot a small fawn or yearling deer, you are taking a chance taking out a buck for the following year. Be selective... If you are going to take a doe, i'd try to take the biggest most mature of the doe... The younger ones (fawns) will be fine, (survive)... if you do decide to take a smaller doe, that deer will not make or break your area... It has to be on the collective as a whole for your area..

you are doing it right..food plots for the deer... during the rut, the does will be looking for food. If they go into heat and a buck is nearby, he will be chasing them around...

keep 2 other things in mind..... Predators may be a huge factor in your area...They have chased deer off my property before and not until we handled the coyotes did we see the deer come back...

the other thing is that for as many deer you have seen, there are probably twice the ammount of deer you havent seen in your area...

i hope i was some sort of help....good luck and shoot straight

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[Five Seasons]

try to let the little guys go if you can, but if you haven't shot a lot of deer, you need to learn so take what you can and don't worry about the trophies just yet.

[SteveB]

It may make you feel better shooting a few coyotes, but you can't kill enough without serious trapping to make a difference.

[The Silent bang]

My brother and I are talking and that's the game plan leave the does for a year or two see what happens. We just took the trapping corse so going to start trapping for coyotes and see how many we pull out and see if that plays a part. Thanks guys for all info

[DROpTINE]

I think the trapping will def help in controlling the yotes.

Sounds like a good plan to start managing your area and trying to revamp the herd.

One thing to keep in mind, a deer's home range can be somewhat large in relation to your land. In my experience, they tend to have different spots throughout the year that they frequent depending on time of season/weather/food availability/pressure. With that said, the deer you may be seeing during the season may disappear to these spots at any point. Don't automatically think the deer are gone or coyotes are to blame right away.

Your best bet is to find these spots at the end of this season and monitor them in the off season. This should help locate some of those bucks that went nocturnal and also give you a basic startup plan for how to get to them early next year. It should also help in trying to get ratio numbers. Good luck

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