Breaking new ground

[dimesport]

Hi,

I have about 3 acres I want to turn into a food plot. This property was "woods" with mostly 6" or smaller trees that have been removed and all the stumps are out. A few large pin oaks are present, but will be removed as well. Hard to say if those stumps will get out to quickly. I have a 35 HP kubota FL with a back hoe as well. 

My question is-how would it be best to get this soil into shape for planting (not sure yet exactly what I will plant). I realize PH will need to be addressed, but Im looking for info as to whether to use a plow, disk, tiller etc. Gardiner NY area and  the soil is about 8" with pretty hard pack clay underneath that. I'm concerned about going to deep whatever I use and turning the clay up to the surface as well. I cut a couple of swales in the property a few years back, so it is much drier now then it used to be.    Any and all comments suggestions would be great. 

Thanks all!

[growalot]

The following list is certainly not scientific, but it represents my observation of deer's relative preference for the various types of acorns that are common in my hunting area. I have developed it by noting the species of acorn chosen by deer when multiple species are available. Species listed at the top seem to be preferred over those lower down.

1. White oak, swamp white oak, overcup oak

2. Chinkapin oak, pin oak

3. Various red oaks

4. Chestnut oaks

 

 

 

If you read the above  quote I have to ask why would you remove the pin oaks? I use a disc  and I am basically discing up a stone quarry just ask the guys they have seen the pictures...(I'll regret this) not one broken disc and well turned over soil and easy to adjust depth..if you have clay and want things opened up but not turned over...then disc surface and then plant hog radish a couple of years and another good one...(perennial) is chicory

[dimesport]

Thanks for the info

The only reason I would remove those few pin oaks is for sunlight. The property does have an amazing white oak (about 10 acres worth) stand right next to it, as well as more pin oaks.  As you know, acorns are feast or famine.

Am I correct in my assumption about not turning up the clay though?  Would this do more harm then good, or should it be done for proper soil conditions for something like radishes or chicory?

Thanks again!

[G-Man]

If you were going to farm it, you would want to deep chisel plow it to brake up clay hard pan and leave topsoil on top, to aid In root and water drainage, hog radish and turnips will do the same over time

, lime to balance ph. Buckwheat, or red clover to plow under to help build nitrogen and organic matter, for a few years and then a clover,cerial grain, rotation.

A 16 In plow will be set to plow 8 inches deep, or just disc if you can't control depth oe roots will be problem. Fo almost all your food plotting partial shade will be better than full sun as soil is thin and will dry out, your biggest concern will be the ph as leaves every year from oaks will raise it.

[growalot]

G-mans right ..as far as oak leafs and lime...once  you get the area up to snuff PH wise hitting the areas near the oak or even the whole plot each spring with a few bags of lime will keep you in good shape. I do woodland plots, actually in my red oak flats, and roots have never been a problem with the disc...Though fore warned It takes several grid pattern passes  especially on fallow ground...we have a 2 bottom plow..I have never used it.

If fact I just got done doing and acre of fallow land....I limed and wanted to break up the dead sod before the rains hit...well they hit early...that was a wet ride home...lol...I will go down once the 3 days of rain stops and the soil will be very workable...well for the amount of rocks there are...I also have flat steel weights on the disc to keep it from bouncing over the top... they work wonders...

 

Nothing better than rotational annuals until dormant weed seed is cleaned up(never completely)...every time you disturb the soil you regenerate those seeds winter rye(WR) buckwheat (BW) and hog radish (HR) are 3 of the best at helping fight weeds besides spraying. I'm putting in a winter wheat(WW) and red clover on this as soon as the seed comes in...I will allow the wheat to grow for both turkey and deer then chop it up with the bush hog.  Then depending on the time and just how bad these rocks will be, I will either disc in the clover after a low mowing and plant either winter rye or hog radish....

One more thing...if you take out the pin oaks...stumps and all...consider chestnut trees and or fruit trees in the plot...leaving enough room to maneuver a tractor and what ever it is pulling behind it..they tend to visit my open plots more during the day now that there are trees there...even small ones...I also left and island of honey suckle wild apple and a big white pine for them to bed in...I plant around the entire island..it's their mad dash safety zone.

[sailinghudson25]

Disc harrows are considered the best implement to use, if you only can buy one. 

 

However, I have seen less than ideal stuff still produce good results, even if it's just for the 1st year.  Scratching the soil with York rake or a box blade will make an ok seed bed to plant seed.  One guy I know drags his front bucket backwards and still makes a workable seedbed.

 

When buying traditional plows, the general rule of thumb is 1hp per inch of plow, a 2 bottom 16" plow needs 32hp or propulsion.  I got a 32hp Kubota and have a 2x16 plow for it.  I plow a little shallow and it works fine.

 

How much rocks are in the soil?

 

I have a small tow behind disc that works fine with an ATV or lawn tractor.

 

However, in the catskill mountains, there is a ton of rock.  I am going to pick up a spring harrows instead of discs, or maybe just a set of spring cultivators.  Personally, I am going to only grow grass like plants, like wheat, rye, and clovers.  No deep rooted stuff like turnips or corn.  Just too many rocks to pick out here, and I live on a hillside.  If I plow at the wrong time, I could wash half of it down to the neighbors property.   

 

One thing I wish I did, is to make several small plots.  Make a 10 yard or so wide brushy spot between 1/2 acre or so spots. 

 

Small lots are more likely to be visited during daylight hours. 

 

I am new to this, however, I do know someone who does ski resort maintenance.  Rye is affordable and easy to get growing.   If you can time it right, scratch up the surface with what you got now and put the rye in right before a good few days of rain either side of labor day.

 

 

Even just getting a 1/4 acre going will be good.

 

I had good results with just keep a fallow spot mowed and putting a little lime and fertilizer on it.  Maybe 3 or 4 times as many trail camera hits as not doing anything.  I did this for 2 years before I got ahead of my firewood, so I had enough free time to pick the rocks out, a good shot of lime, lightly disced with my small discs, and get some cereal grain and clover mix going.

 

I like the plotspike forage feast from tractor supply.  It has a bit of everything.  Wheat, oats, rye, Austrian peas, brassica (rape seed), and annual clover.  I mixed in some imperial whitetail clover in with it.  Maybe about 6 or 7 bags of 12-12-12 fertilizer from home depot per acre, and it worked great. IT actually did better where the discs tilled in lighter. 

 

I made a post of it on the seed review.  I wanted something out of it to grow, all of it did.  Thinking I should of used durana clover instead, but the deer don't mind it at all.

 

[sailinghudson25]

Even dragging a log behind a tractor has worked.    Great for leveling out disced out spot, then put the seed down, then do another pass to cover the seed up a bit.

[dimesport]

Great info all-thanks for the good insight