Deer Movement Myth Dispelled

[nyantler]

Let me take this right out of one of your books...Quote.

A pack is a coyote family dominated by an alpha male and female who form a breeding pair. It can also include this year’s pups and offspring from the previous year, along with individuals from other packs that have been accepted into the family. The size of the pack will depend on the amount of food available to sustain it. [/size]

 

Resident coyotes are members of packs (family groups) and help defend their territory against other coyotes. Transient coyotes are solitary individuals that do not belong to a pack. They are commonly yearlings that have recently left their natal pack and sometimes old or sick coyotes that were forced to leave.  Transients can join another pack if accepted by the alpha pair. Transient coyotes are not territorial and have a huge home range that spans many coyote pack territories. [/size]

 

You seem to forget the posts on previous years harvests. The first year there were over 100 dogs taken on this block of land which borders drum, Maybe a couple miles. I believe just shy of 40 were taken of this 1000 acre chunk i have control of. The second year they were not hunted as hard yet still over 20 were taken of this chunk of land with many more on the outskirts. These numbers do not include all the ones taken by every other means that we used to rid the vermin. The next 2 years which were last and the year before coyotes were not even seen and very few heard here and there and those last 2 years we had our local population of deer and turkey back on the farm. This year, Way to many were seen,with some taken during deer season that i had a trapper in during deer season with the hounds coming in behind him. 

There is no doubt in my mind that we had 2-3 different family packs on this property at the same time before they were decimated the first couple years and by the looks of things last fall and the harvests from fall and this year so far there is/was a fair number back.

It took them 2 years to come back on the property after they were decimated.  I love how the books say you kill one and one moves back in.  Trust me, That is not always the case, but you continue to read the books and i will see and deal with the real world.

 

Back to the scheduled program!

Thanks for posting from my page... it's exactly what I've been saying. Concentrate on the "huge home range" part and the word "transient" and you might start to understand better. Also pay attention to the part about the family unit only being as big as the habitat can sustain. All exactly what I've already explained. I'm not sure how you are getting anything from this that I already haven't explained, your hatred for coyotes must still be skewing your ability to understand. Lastly, when you decimate the coyote family and the rogues in the area... it only makes sense that it will take a while for you to notice the coyotes that are moving in to re-establish a new family unit... again, you can expect a never ending assault on coyotes... you haven't accomplished anything more than inviting a different family group into the habitat that will be back to full strength in a few years... just in time for the re-establishment of the wildlife that you imagined have been totally decimated from your thousand acres. Which only proves how nonsensical your approach really is and how little you know about what you're doing.

Edited January 20, 2016 by nyantler

[Tacti_Steve]

One place we hunted in the past, private property, the owner had 2 large mixed breed  dogs , I always wondered why a few times during the week we would see them chewing on body parts from deer, we thought they were remains of deer that were shot and they were fed the pices. Until one day while posted I saw them chasing a deer , the kept at it until the deer stopped running then one went and grabbed one of the deers rear legs and the other one jumped at the deers neck and killed it . These were not free roaming dogs they belonged to the owner.

Those dogs would not be considered hunting hounds. They were giving chase to the Deer. Those I would lump in with the coyotes.

 

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never hunted with hounds so what do I know but you want to run dogs consistently threw others property that is used for deer hunting during deer season (or close to it)because of a study???? Any bow hunters or gun willing to let him start this summer and during deer season run dogs consistently??? Im sorry but I think you would be hard pressed unless a owner had a yote problem. Ask the first three months of the year we probably would let you respectively a couple of times ~ consistently? No. I know a few posted some very good stories supporting this referred study but I do not believe our land is better off having someone consistently hound hunt it than not. I'm sure there was a study on how making the first two weeks of bow season doe only in some areas would drastically reduce the deer population. DEC should get a refund for that study.

Oh I agree the only land owners that give me permission to run during Deer season are the farmers that just don't care. Most farmers want the coons gone as bad as they do the Deer. They'll tell me have at it. Not all of them though. Some do say just not during Deer season. But finding land that is not owned by a farmer to run on is much less common. 

 

Opening day 2014 the night prior I ran my dog on a piece of land and set up a spot to sit in a hedge row. Never Deer hunted that spot before. By 7:45 I had a 7 point dead at 20 yards. I don't use tree stands either. Can't tell you how many coons I tree in tree stands and you'd never know the next day. 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

 

Resident coyotes are members of packs (family groups) and help defend their territory against other coyotes. Transient coyotes are solitary individuals that do not belong to a pack. They are commonly yearlings that have recently left their natal pack and sometimes old or sick coyotes that were forced to leave.  Transients can join another pack if accepted by the alpha pair. Transient coyotes are not territorial and have a huge home range that spans many coyote pack territories. [/size]

 

You seem to forget the posts on previous years harvests. The first year there were over 100 dogs taken on this block of land which borders drum, Maybe a couple miles. I believe just shy of 40 were taken of this 1000 acre chunk i have control of. The second year they were not hunted as hard yet still over 20 were taken of this chunk of land with many more on the outskirts. These numbers do not include all the ones taken by every other means that we used to rid the vermin. The next 2 years which were last and the year before coyotes were not even seen and very few heard here and there and those last 2 years we had our local population of deer and turkey back on the farm. This year, Way to many were seen,with some taken during deer season that i had a trapper in during deer season with the hounds coming in behind him. 

There is no doubt in my mind that we had 2-3 different family packs on this property at the same time before they were decimated the first couple years and by the looks of things last fall and the harvests from fall and this year so far there is/was a fair number back.

It took them 2 years to come back on the property after they were decimated.  I love how the books say you kill one and one moves back in.  Trust me, That is not always the case, but you continue to read the books and i will see and deal with the real world.

 

Back to the scheduled program!

Thanks for posting from my page... it's exactly what I've been saying. Concentrate on the "huge home range" part and the word "transient" and you might start to understand better. Also pay attention to the part about the family unit only being as big as the habitat can sustain. All exactly what I've already explained. I'm not sure how you are getting anything from this that I already haven't explained, your hatred for coyotes must still be skewing your ability to understand. Lastly, when you decimate the coyote family and the rogues in the area... it only makes sense that it will take a while for you to notice the coyotes that are moving in to re-establish a new family unit... again, you can expect a never ending assault on coyotes... you haven't accomplished anything more than inviting a different family group into the habitat that will be back to full strength in a few years... just in time for the re-establishment of the wildlife that you imagined have been totally decimated from your thousand acres. Which only proves how nonsensical your approach really is and how little you know about what you're doing.

Dude your so full of shit its a joke. You say there cant be more than one alpha on a property when there can be 2-3 on a 1000 acre piece of property. You read where there can be males living right inside a family group without being in that family group.  Bottom line is your full of shit if you think coyotes have not and will not ruin a piece of property. Of freakin course they had great food because they were eating my whitetails and turkeys. I blew them up with every means possible 365 days a year and problem was solved. 

 

Like i said before...You watch the posts on here that are coming from the 2-3 guys on here that are saying they are seeing more vermin on their cams than they are wildlife.  They will decimate the herd and the flocks in no time if not dealt with pronto. This crap of only 1 family group living on a property is a joke.. They all may be touch hole related down the line somewhere.

 

I dont hate all coyotes, only the ones on my property. They are useless creatures that the world would not miss if they all just fell of the face of the earth. There are plenty other animals that do the same job without the destruction.  Its obvious you dont have a clue or dealt with real life vermin issues.

 

You want to come north this weekend you will see how fast any of these new family groups that moved in will hang out. Have you ever seen a Dog get ran down by a Cat and be rolled by a load of Double 00 buck on the way past.   Sweet.

 

You keep up on those books and let those in the know deal with real life issues.

[nyantler]

Dude your so full of shit its a joke. You say there cant be more than one alpha on a property when there can be 2-3 on a 1000 acre piece of property. You read where there can be males living right inside a family group without being in that family group.  Bottom line is your full of shit if you think coyotes have not and will not ruin a piece of property. Of freakin course they had great food because they were eating my whitetails and turkeys. I blew them up with every means possible 365 days a year and problem was solved. 

 

Like i said before...You watch the posts on here that are coming from the 2-3 guys on here that are saying they are seeing more vermin on their cams than they are wildlife.  They will decimate the herd and the flocks in no time if not dealt with pronto. This crap of only 1 family group living on a property is a joke.. They all may be touch hole related down the line somewhere.

 

I dont hate all coyotes, only the ones on my property. They are useless creatures that the world would not miss if they all just fell of the face of the earth. There are plenty other animals that do the same job without the destruction.  Its obvious you dont have a clue or dealt with real life vermin issues.

 

You want to come north this weekend you will see how fast any of these new family groups that moved in will hang out. Have you ever seen a Dog get ran down by a Cat and be rolled by a load of Double 00 buck on the way past.   Sweet.

 

You keep up on those books and let those in the know deal with real life issues.

I  should have known better than try to have an intelligent conversation with you... I somehow got pulled in again. I've made my case... maybe someone else learned something... you have too much anger for some reason to learn much of anything.  I'm done. Have a good day.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I  should have known better than try to have an intelligent conversation with you... I somehow got pulled in again. I've made my case... maybe someone else learned something... you have too much anger for some reason to learn much of anything.  I'm done. Have a good day.

LOL..Sorry i proved all your book reading wrong but such is life. The people do a couple studies and think there is no other way or that they cant be wrong.

 

The one thing i will tell everyone reading these words,  If you own or hunt a good chunk of land and have for years to now notice that your good wildlife sightings and sign is down yet your vermin has gone sky high you have the begining of a big problem or already have one.  Let go and they will continue to grow until you have no game left. If you already noticed that you have no small game on top of low numbers of large then you know why.

[growalot]

post moved

Edited January 22, 2016 by growalot

[Doc]

Let's see..money going to hunters and seeing REAL numbers coming in,verse ,money going to "Studies" and statistical numbers coming in....Hhhmmmm A P.A. plan compared to a NY plan...my money would be on P.A.

Sorry Grow ...... I think this is in response to my "coyote bounty" reply that I deleted and moved out into its own topic. I didn't really want to keep moving this thread any farther off topic. I guess I wasn't fast enough ......lol.

[growalot]

Dang I thought I was seeing things...lol..I stepped away after posting and Was more confused than normal when I came back...Lol.

PS...On Kindle so monitor help moving my post would be appreciated...Thanks

Edited January 22, 2016 by growalot

[Doc]

Dang I thought I was seeing things...lol..I stepped away after posting and Was more confused than normal when I came back...Lol.

PS...On Kindle so monitor help moving my post would be appreciated...Thanks

I don't really know how to do that. My super moderator powers are limited .... lol.

[growalot]

Thanks anyways Doc...on PC now and got it moved