Question on Clover - legume.

[Fantail]

One plot goal (or at least thinking about) I have this year is a Clover/Chicory mix. Before I plant it I'll do a soil test and most likely need lime. I want to time it so it is productive durring summer/fall, then into Archery hopefully. Anyhow so I find this article about Clover in northern climates.

Choosing the proper fertilizer is also important. Clover can use both, atmospheric fixed nitrogen from its nodules and mineral nitrogen from synthetic sources. When fertilizing, a blend with no nitrogen is recommended, for instance 300 to 350 pounds of 0-20-20 per acre (it is best to fertilize according to the results from a soil test). Legumes produce their own nitrogen, if you add nitrogen to legumes you encourage other grasses and unwanted weeds to take root and you “train” your clover to be lazy. If you give it nitrogen it stops affixing its own. Fertilize your perennials at planting time and then again at least once per year after.

source

What the crap? So if that is true hows that going to pan out with a mix?

[G-Man]

the clover needs a fertalizer of 0-(?)-(?) basicaly no nitrogen, chickory will use the available nitrogen fixed by the clover.

[NYBowhunter]

For the 1st year of planting clover you will need to add a fertilizer with nitrogen, however the year after and so on there is no need for nitrogen  as the clover will produce its own. I'm not a big fan of mixing brasicas or legumes with clover as the clover will need mowing once they get 6 inches in length and once mowed you can kiss any legumes or brassicas goodbye. If you really want to have chickory and clover in your plots you should plant them seperately. Go for a white ladino clover, deer seem to like them better.

[G-Man]

I've never had chickory die out from being mowed...but i have had it take over and shade out the clover. My opinion clover/alfalfa seed is expensive and i don't want to mix it with a cheaper if you will crop.

[NYBowhunter]

From my experience with a clover/chickory mix, the chickory didnt die out from mowing however it did not rebound as fast as my clover and the clover eventually took over my plot to the point the chickory is very scarce. In the height of the growing season I cut my clover plots every 2-3 weeks and the clover just grows back much faster. In my opinion I would create two seperate plots or if you only have one site for a food plot I would definitely recommend going with just white ladino clover.  In my area the deer use the clover year round or until the snow is too deep. Here is a picture of my clover plot being used in late december with snow on the ground.

[Fantail]

Hmmm, I guess this is the time to rethink that goal then.

White clover on it's own with it's ability for regrowth is sounding good. That would give me other options. Since I need to till up the new plot area anyway, I'm thinking retill the plot where I planted forge oats last year for the clover. And then maybe chicory or buckwheat in the new one. For the 3rd, an old logging trail plot was painfully tilled last year (lots of rocks) I hear ryegrass is a good option.

Next step is next time I'm up to camp, is not to forget the Ph meter and test the soil. I mean all the chatter is great but I may wind up with more work spreading lime or need to start with something else this year. I should have test results to post and ask about in a few days.

Thanks guys. 

[Fantail]

Well if the ph meter wasn't off it's meds then I'm suprised.

Plot 1 (last year grew oats) avg is 6.5 (6.0 - 7.0)

Plot 2 old logging trail 6.5

Plot 3 (new) avg 6.5 - 7.0

I thought this can't be right, so I double back and re sampled the same area's - duplicate readings. Checked my back yard again - steady 6.5

What kills me is the new section hasn't been tended to in 3-4 years, I need to till it all back up but I had thought the ph would be way low. Btw good light meter readings unless you thumb the solar chip and the moisture was average.

How the heck is ph higher in a woodland plot? Granted the meter isn't scientific lab readings.

Anyhow if I lowball the readings, should I still apply lime before I till and fertilize?

[G-Man]

Your ph is good if that's the average.. same with taking soil samples several from around plot. 1 reading can be off but an average is thw way to go.  Id skip the lime based on the average and just plant!

[NYBowhunter]

Wow....those are some great PH levels...that soil saved you a bunch of time and money. I would have expected the soil at best to be in the mid to upper 5's. Good deal......half your battle is won. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[Fantail]

I was in Gander the other day and they got a whole row of plot seed, mostly all mixes and blends. I should have ordered this last month.