Doc

This thread was not intended to be a "right or wrong answer" kind of question. Right or wrong resides in our own minds when it comes to why we hunt and how we hunt and what really constitutes "fair chase", or even whether fair chase should even be a hunting consideration. And tied in with that internal judgment of right and wrong are the motivations and definitions of what hunting means to each hunter. There are people who see a canned hunt as meeting their needs for success and a satisfying hunting experience. There are those that draw their lines at baiting. And there are those that would settle for no more of an advantage than a stone axe and one hand tied behind their back.....lol. It all boils down to just what technique or weapon or advantage makes you still feel "fairly" matched to the abilities of your prey. Of course depending on whether feeling fairly matched to your prey is an important part of the hunt for each individual. The baiting question was just intended to bring that all out. I could have went with a canned hunt question, but I thought something more in the middle like baiting would bring out more discussion...... and it has.

I came out of the trees quite a few years ago. Sure it plays into my "extra challenge" thing with my hunting, but I have to be honest, it was a fear of heights that actually put me on the ground. I am a blind builder though. I think that if I were to forgo a blind, I would learn to shoot with a ghillie suit (not the easiest thing in the world). But that is about the best open-ground camo that I can think of.

You know there are places around where you can pay your money and have a nice deer placed in front of you to shoot. And if you like shooting deer at a feeding trough, they can fix you up with that too. ..... lol. Just kidding, but you know how that quote above makes it sound.

OMG .... That whole thing was so screwed up on so many levels.....lol. Did anyone else get the impression that the day of the hunt was the first time the kid had a gun in his hands? No time on the range? No prior safety instruction. I mean, it was the morning of the hunt when he was explaining to him how to load the gun. And yes, there was some heavy-duty badgering (force) going on there. The kid was not associating any fun or excitement with the hunt at all, and it was just simply a totally negative experience. Yes he claims that he will go out again, but I really wonder if that little blurb was more for his father's benefit than any kind of truthful statement. I sincerely hope that this doesn't go on like this on too many of those youth hunt opportunities. I am finding it absolutely impossible to visualize that reaction from me or anyone that I ever knew. We all not only wanted to go hunting, but were an absolute pain in the butt about it. There was no begging or coercion necessary at all. Is there something ugly happening to the American male youths? I am completely baffled by the kid's attitude, and thoroughly disgusted by the dad's attitude, and bewildered by the apparent lack of preparation prior to the hunt.

Is the tripod stand to be used for gun or bow? Unless you were to shove it back into a tree or some other kind of cover, I would think you would be kind of hanging out there exposed to the deer. I know they are sold, and used, and probably have some level of success, but just sitting there like a big old bird, and expecting incoming deer to just ignore you, doesn't seem all that realistic to me.

Frankly, I like seeing people talking about the campaign and not taking anything for granted. The worst thing is that everyone will assume that a big rabbit is going to be pulled out of the hat at the last minute. The big enemy now is apathy and believing in the tooth fairy. A little good old fashion panic can be a powerful motivator towards getting voters minds right and pushing their feet toward the polls.

Quote: "What his reasons are, we don't know. But he has very strong feelings about law enforcement and seems to be very angry with a lot of things that go on in our society." Lol .... Seems like a mentality that I've heard before.

I hate to hear of these things occurring with people so young, but like you said the procedure is now pretty darn routine. Yes you will be losing one season, but it will ensure many more afterward. Get it fixed and start out next year with a renewed determination.

See, I told you my memory wasn't the best. I would have sworn that last year was the first year for the $10 application fee. How time flies when you're having fun.

That could be. I know when I heard how screwed up the system was, I delayed going after my DMPs several days just to give them time to iron out some more difficulties.

Hey!..... Wife claims to have actually seen an Astorino ad on TV a couple days ago. How about that! Is the campaign about to start? .... lol.

Yeah, I could be remembering wrong....lol. It wouldn't be the first time, and it seems to happen a lot more as time goes on. But I would have sworn that last year when non-refundable charges for merely applying was started, there was a big controversy and it was a first in a bunch of years.

Has anybody ever done a study on other carrion eaters such as skunks, possums, raccoons, coyotes, weasels and such? Just curious.

So what is the latest in the hunter numbers? First I hear that hunting is on the rocks because there is a mass exodus of hunters. Then I hear that's all bunk, hunter numbers are actually going up. Anybody know what the latest studies are claiming?

I believe that last year was the first year of charging for applications in recent years. I think I remember a bunch of years back when you had to send in a check with the permit application. But then we were talking some very different numbers of permits that they wanted to dump out there too.

Ha-ha .... Would that be called a "Bait Plot"?

What a tubby critter. He sure has been eating well.

I think that it is impossible to pull every deer from neighboring properties simply by creating specialized food sources. Without high fences, deer do meander around for reasons other than food. But yes, it does always amaze me how these confrontations and cross-allegations seem to arise out of all these modern-day attempts at manipulating herds. Somehow, none of that nonsense feels like it has or should have anything to do with hunting. But like I said that is just personal feelings and opinion and is different for each hunter.

So are we saying that we should form policy based on evidence that even the best science cannot define?

Ha-ha.....I had no intention of taking on the whole food-plot contingent of this forum....lol. But I am simply trying to explain the personal doubts that I have about this whole concept of creating conditions better than your neighbor's strictly for the purpose of drawing his deer away from him and onto your own protected property. It is simply a mindset and motivation that just doesn't sit well with me. I am not starting a campaign to outlaw food plots ....lol. It is a personal reaction to the process and an explanation of why, even if I did have the space, time and money, I probably wouldn't personally get involved with it. I probably should explain a hunting mindset that I have grown up with that says that I hunt the deer (or whatever) exactly as I find them and do not condition them to accommodate my hunting. I view them as wild critters that I study and learn and then hunt without treating them in any way as livestock. That philosophy is not for everyone, but it is the way that I approach my hunting. By not getting into the business of conditioning my prey, I also extend that same potential to my neighbors without forcing them to take defensive moves to keep a huntable population on their properties. It is another one of those personal ethics things that we were just talking about in another thread ..... not for everybody, but a personal code that rattles around in my own brain.

37 years of testing, and only two confirmed cases from bullet fragments in the entire study, and that involving only one species. What other conclusion is one to draw? Birdshot is the overwhelming cause and remedial action has been taken for that. Bullet fragments show up as basically statistical noise. I repeat: "The chart does not make a very strong case against lead bullets".

Is it really a coincidence that DMP applications fall at the same time that they start charging for that application? The fact that they are surprised is what I find shocking. The government has made an art out of diminishing certain public behaviors via taxation (cigarettes, booze, gas, etc.). So why be surprised that this kind of taxation of DMP applications is having the same result.

It was a great question.

Interesting and seemingly accurate analysis of the chart. The chart does not make a very strong case against lead bullets.

Not sure of the relevance of your question. My own property is really quite small and barring letting people hunt in my yard, I already allow several hunters access to my property in accordance with practicality and safety, and privacy. I have to say that you would be very disappointed if you were to just hunt my land .... lol. So if your intent is to imply that I try to corral deer on my own property for hunting reasons, the answer is no I do not. However, yes you are absolutely welcome to hunt the very same state land that I and who knows how many others already hunt. The same deer that I hunt, you are also welcome to hunt. I do not try to hoard any of them nor can I.