Doc

Expectations- Do not think that there will come a day when you will be an expert. There are a lot of people calling themselves that, but anyone who is honest will tell you that they are constantly learning new things, and seeing yesterday's "facts" replaced with todays realities. So enter hunting with a long term view. It's a lifetime activity that will keep you guessing forever. It is a challenge and is intended to be exactly that. Treat opinion as simply "opinion" and apply healthy skepticism. Stay open to observation and interpretation and flexibility, and you will do about as good as anyone over the long haul.

What you may be seeing is an evolution of modern youth. A condition that I have heard referred to as the "pussyfication of American male youth" ..... lol. Well that is a rather crude characterization of it all, but I do believe there is something going on in society that is driving kids away from hunting and outdoor activities in general. The portrayal of hunters as low-brow, insensitive, brutish people is beginning to take ahold. The worship of technology and avoidance of physical efforts looks like it is having a serious impact on the existence of todays young people. Having good strong, fast, thumbs to operate the texting buttons of the smart phones is a whole lot more valued than being a crack shot on the range or a skilled woodsman on the hunt. It is all about the "kinder and gentler" directions of society. Good thing? ..... Bad thing? It all depends on your point of view. Yeah, I know. I sound like every other prior generation when talking about "the trouble with kids today". But just from casual observation, this is the way things look to me. This video does not shock or surprise me.

No, you left out a third type of member who whines about threads that he claims he has no interest in, but still jumps into them simply because it gives him a chance to criticize topics and people who happen to want to discuss some other aspects of hunting than just looking at pictures and stories of dead deer. Nobody cares how much you laugh at other members here. No one is pretending that they are perfect except perhaps those who get some kind of satisfaction from bragging about how they have shot more mature deer than others. What you are mistaking as preaching, is simply expression of opinion. You probably should be made aware that that is one of the prime purposes of forums. So if whining about other people happens to be another unstated reason that you are a member here, maybe you should be aware that this forum is not really all about you and the limited subject matter that you want to talk about.

I shot one doe on the opposite side of a huge oak I was hiding behind (about 5 or 6 feet away). She was coming straight at the tree offering no shot. I was circling the tree as she went by and then drew and waited for her to come out the other side of the tree. I was pretty messed up with excitement. Even that close it's a wonder I got the shot off. I was shaking like a leaf. In all the years of hunting in the trees, I never got a rush that extreme in my life. It was almost a toe to toe, eyeball to eyeball encounter.

Think log building nestled into a wooded section of the back yard. Perhaps a nice stone fireplace, with a well-stocked refrigerator hidden behind a wooden door. Big-screen TV, and some great sound system. And how about a back room workshop for reloading, and archery gear repair and tuning. Oh what the hell, let's attach a 30 yard indoor bow range, and perhaps a lift door that accesses a nice shot to the outdoor 200 yard shooting range and a nice sandbagged shooting bench to check out those new reloads. And maybe it's time to cultivate a new hobby of fly-tying. I'm sure some generous space for a fly-tying bench could find its way in there right next to the fishing rod racks and the tackle shelves. And the final touches of a nice comfy couch and instructions as to where and when the wife needs to take the meals. Life could be mighty fine.

Damn.... I've never been accused of persecuting anyone before.....lol. I have some pretty rock solid opinions about baiting and a whole lot of other things regarding hunting. And frequently I do get off on the preachy side of things. That's not intentional. It's just a bit of emotion creeping in. But I do understand that I am not some kind of sole arbiter when it comes to the right and wrong ways of hunting. But frequently I do try to encourage some elements of self imposed limits rather than the desperation of "I've got to get a deer at any cost". Ha-ha-ha .... Try doing that without sounding preachy....lol. But in the end, what occurs in the the hunting woods generally relies less on laws than on individual conscience. And maybe there have been some elements of this topic that might help on that score a bit.

My first deer with a bow took 7 years. Back in the 60's, a bunch of us guys would have Monday morning gatherings around the coffee pot at work and talk over the events of our bowhunts over the weekend. The big topic back then was when somebody actually saw a deer. And boy did the stories get super involved and intense when someone actually got a shot. And if somebody actually got one, the BS session went well into actual working hours.....lol. And there was no question of "Gee, what did he score?" First of all it wasn't likely to even be a buck, and second there was nobody knew or cared about any kind of scoring system. So 5 years without getting a deer is not anything that is going to get my sympathy..... lol. People sure have gotten spoiled rotten these days.

The original post was not about mature deer. It regarded any deer. Why people are intent on trying to convince everybody that baiting does not work is beyond me. I'm sure that the multi-million dollar baiting and bait dispensing industry has not flourished simply because the whole world is wrong about the effectiveness of baiting.

This thread was not intended to be a "right or wrong answer" kind of question. Right or wrong resides in our own minds when it comes to why we hunt and how we hunt and what really constitutes "fair chase", or even whether fair chase should even be a hunting consideration. And tied in with that internal judgment of right and wrong are the motivations and definitions of what hunting means to each hunter. There are people who see a canned hunt as meeting their needs for success and a satisfying hunting experience. There are those that draw their lines at baiting. And there are those that would settle for no more of an advantage than a stone axe and one hand tied behind their back.....lol. It all boils down to just what technique or weapon or advantage makes you still feel "fairly" matched to the abilities of your prey. Of course depending on whether feeling fairly matched to your prey is an important part of the hunt for each individual. The baiting question was just intended to bring that all out. I could have went with a canned hunt question, but I thought something more in the middle like baiting would bring out more discussion...... and it has.

I came out of the trees quite a few years ago. Sure it plays into my "extra challenge" thing with my hunting, but I have to be honest, it was a fear of heights that actually put me on the ground. I am a blind builder though. I think that if I were to forgo a blind, I would learn to shoot with a ghillie suit (not the easiest thing in the world). But that is about the best open-ground camo that I can think of.

You know there are places around where you can pay your money and have a nice deer placed in front of you to shoot. And if you like shooting deer at a feeding trough, they can fix you up with that too. ..... lol. Just kidding, but you know how that quote above makes it sound.

OMG .... That whole thing was so screwed up on so many levels.....lol. Did anyone else get the impression that the day of the hunt was the first time the kid had a gun in his hands? No time on the range? No prior safety instruction. I mean, it was the morning of the hunt when he was explaining to him how to load the gun. And yes, there was some heavy-duty badgering (force) going on there. The kid was not associating any fun or excitement with the hunt at all, and it was just simply a totally negative experience. Yes he claims that he will go out again, but I really wonder if that little blurb was more for his father's benefit than any kind of truthful statement. I sincerely hope that this doesn't go on like this on too many of those youth hunt opportunities. I am finding it absolutely impossible to visualize that reaction from me or anyone that I ever knew. We all not only wanted to go hunting, but were an absolute pain in the butt about it. There was no begging or coercion necessary at all. Is there something ugly happening to the American male youths? I am completely baffled by the kid's attitude, and thoroughly disgusted by the dad's attitude, and bewildered by the apparent lack of preparation prior to the hunt.

Is the tripod stand to be used for gun or bow? Unless you were to shove it back into a tree or some other kind of cover, I would think you would be kind of hanging out there exposed to the deer. I know they are sold, and used, and probably have some level of success, but just sitting there like a big old bird, and expecting incoming deer to just ignore you, doesn't seem all that realistic to me.

Frankly, I like seeing people talking about the campaign and not taking anything for granted. The worst thing is that everyone will assume that a big rabbit is going to be pulled out of the hat at the last minute. The big enemy now is apathy and believing in the tooth fairy. A little good old fashion panic can be a powerful motivator towards getting voters minds right and pushing their feet toward the polls.

Quote: "What his reasons are, we don't know. But he has very strong feelings about law enforcement and seems to be very angry with a lot of things that go on in our society." Lol .... Seems like a mentality that I've heard before.

I hate to hear of these things occurring with people so young, but like you said the procedure is now pretty darn routine. Yes you will be losing one season, but it will ensure many more afterward. Get it fixed and start out next year with a renewed determination.

See, I told you my memory wasn't the best. I would have sworn that last year was the first year for the $10 application fee. How time flies when you're having fun.

That could be. I know when I heard how screwed up the system was, I delayed going after my DMPs several days just to give them time to iron out some more difficulties.

Hey!..... Wife claims to have actually seen an Astorino ad on TV a couple days ago. How about that! Is the campaign about to start? .... lol.

Yeah, I could be remembering wrong....lol. It wouldn't be the first time, and it seems to happen a lot more as time goes on. But I would have sworn that last year when non-refundable charges for merely applying was started, there was a big controversy and it was a first in a bunch of years.

Has anybody ever done a study on other carrion eaters such as skunks, possums, raccoons, coyotes, weasels and such? Just curious.

So what is the latest in the hunter numbers? First I hear that hunting is on the rocks because there is a mass exodus of hunters. Then I hear that's all bunk, hunter numbers are actually going up. Anybody know what the latest studies are claiming?

I believe that last year was the first year of charging for applications in recent years. I think I remember a bunch of years back when you had to send in a check with the permit application. But then we were talking some very different numbers of permits that they wanted to dump out there too.

Ha-ha .... Would that be called a "Bait Plot"?

What a tubby critter. He sure has been eating well.