Doc

Back in our much younger days, Mrs. Doc used to run the trapline during the week while I was working some very heavy overtime. The line was a few miles long, so it was no small feat. Strangely enough, she never got into hunting but certainly has no problem preparing whatever I get for our meals, and absolutely understands why I am into it. Fishing is another thing ...... She is into that far more than I am.

I like to avoid any controversy. I have made it a standing rule to always be able to see at least 3 signs at all times when approaching my property line. That is a lot closer than any requirement I have ever seen and avoids the comment, "Well I didn't see any sign". It is impossible to cross the line without having seen at least 3 signs. Posted signs are cheap (relatively speaking), even the metal ones. And hopefully you very seldom have to ever replace them. The backer-boards that I use are pressure treated plywood and seems to last nearly forever. Between adequate posting and the fact that I spend a lot of time out there, I have really had very little problems with hunter trespassers. I have had occasional problems with some neighbors that think I bought the property for their use with their horses and ATVs, dirt bikes, and camping. But hunters don't seem to be any problem.

Actually, there are a whole lot of differences between plotting and baiting. Hard though it may be to believe, some plotting is being done strictly as a habitat improvement. Also, there is a big difference in difficulty between hunting over a 6' diameter pile of bait, vs. a 1/4 to 3 acre or larger field with dozens of entry and exit spots. This is a real important distinction particularly with bowhunting. Also, baiting allows the chemist to get into the act, with unlimited inventions of more and more effective concoctions. Also, I have read about some of these timed bait broadcasting feeders acting like a dinner bell to the point where you even get a sense of "When" the deer will be getting on the scene. Another big difference regards the practicality of enforcement. Imagine the legal quagmire that would result trying to differentiate between legitimate ag activity and that special small field back in the woods. On the other hand, a bait pile is a bait pile. very easy to define, identify and with very little question as to intent. So the bottom line is that food plots and baiting are very different things.

That looks like quite a jungle. How do you even get a look at a deer from there? Is that going to be for gun, bow, or both? Would have been good to get a picture from inside the blind looking toward where you expect the shot. Edit: Ok, I just spotted the shooting lane that you cut. Is there a well-used trail that goes by there?

Ok, I just did some quick Google-work, and forget about the turkeys having any serious sense of smell. Right off the bat, I ran into a whole pile of places that just flat-out said they have no specially developed sense of smell. So that thought is out the window. Good thing too. That sense of sight is a pretty good defense against hunters. If they had a developed sense of smell, you probably would never get one ..... lol.

From what I've read, they really aren't the smartest critters. protected with natural instinctive senses and reactions, but probably not really great for remembering places and things. The idea of random scratching makes a lot of sense. I have seen some super large areas torn up, but also, I have come across some smaller turfed up areas that looked rather targeted. I am wondering of perhaps they might be able to feel them through the leaves with their feet. I don't know. It's just one of those questions that come on me while I am wandering around and see different things.

Sure is an awful lot of confusion regarding how to properly post property.

Was this guy enjoying his love of outdoors or was he an anti-social mental deficient that simply snapped one day. I think there is a real sad story here of a very unfortunate individual. It is too bad that no one took a look at his pre-hermit life events to learn more about what makes this guy the social misfit that he obviously turned out to be.

The ones that survive do ..... lol. But sometimes they just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when they figure out what's happening. They still have to get to their sanctuaries. That first couple of hours is when they are the most vulnerable.

Yeah, if that really is a potential outcome of legal baiting, or food plotting, this would be the point where a hunting technique or activity could have negative effects on someone other than those practicing it. Doesn't that all kind of smack of selfishness or something? It doesn't really sound like a neighborly or friendly hunter interaction. It's one thing to want to use bait for your own hunting but when motives turn to attempts at depriving other hunters for your own gain that becomes something entirely different. I don't really want to see any of that going on.

Has anyone even been out for bears yet? Has anyone heard of anyone else getting one? Any news articles or anything?

Yup, There are all kinds of big deer that have been taken in our area that had never been seen before. Some of that might be that they never were here before and got driven into the area by the orange army, or perhaps rut has pulled them into the area temporarily. Or maybe they simply are far better at avoiding us than we ever could imagine. Even with the advent of cameras everywhere, the big guys are pretty good at staying out of the picture. Those that I have seen, are seldom seen more than once.

This idea of forced "bait wars" is the one thing that might move me from being only mildly opposed to baiting into a position of more activism in any fight for legalization. The practice of baiting is one of those things where I could are less as long as it doesn't affect my hunting. But when I feel that a neighbor is actively trying to draw deer from my property onto his, I see that as a bit of an aggressive act. I don't want to see that sort of thing get started in hunting.

My first bow that accounted for my first kill (pigeons in the hay mow) was a hickory longbow that I built at age 11 with a draw-shave and hours of work. Crossbows (legal or otherwise) weren't even in the picture, and certainly not something that I could come up with by myself. So the legality of crossbow hunting wasn't even an issue back then. Another influence was the advent of archery competition in my 20's and 30's. We owned a commercial archery range when I was 21. I think by that time, I was totally committed to bows, and all the intricacies and challenges of archery skills. By that point, the crossbow (legal or not) wouldn't have had a chance to sneak into my life. But who knows. If I had found an old crossbow up in the attic at age 11, maybe it all would have taken a different turn. No real way of knowing.

Another aspect of the baiting question pulled from a Bowsite.com article by Dr. Dave Samuel: Baiting is viewed as drawing deer away from those who don't use bait to those that do. He also noted that it may take advantage of neighbors with good habitat, by drawing away deer from those lands. In Michigan, there are situations where one person baits heavily on his property, drawing deer off smaller adjacent properties. This then forces those who hunt on small properties to bait. They may not want to, but they get into it so they can see deer. Any comments?

First of all, do not be concerned about my moderator status. In terms of my discussions, I am just another member expressing opinions just like anyone else here. Second, I cannot construct my replies to accommodate reading comprehension problems. There is always an assumption that people can detect nuances of the language. Third, I never even hinted "impartiality". I have definite opinions and I generally have no difficulty expressing them exactly the way I want them expressed. Framing arguments as right or wrong indicates that there is no room for discussion, which is seldom the case. But that is not the same as impartiality. I always reserve the right to have opinions that may indicate that I think or feel differently on the subject. Regarding the "challenge" reactions to the "respect" comment, I guess that doesn't really bother me. I am simply trying to convey an inward look and respond with honesty, which is how I was hoping that all would respond to this thread. But, I can't control how people process that in their own minds.

I have a disgusting picture of a human carcass that has been partially eaten that is way too graphic for posting. I mean it is almost guaranteed to turn the stomach of even the strongest gut. Whenever the subject of Kodiak hunting comes up, that is the picture that flashes through my mind and reminds me why it isn't really something for me. Also some of the descriptions that bear attack survivors come up with are pretty disgusting things to contemplate.

I reload five different calibers. There are some cost benefits, but not as big a deal as you might expect .... Particularly if you put a value on your time. The real value is for those of us who get a bit anal about small groups, flat trajectories, and speeds and energy and matching the perfect load and components to each of your rifles/pistols. It is not hard to get started if you have an experienced buddy to sit down with you and go through the steps. Trying to wade through the books and procedures and safety precautions on your own can be a bit intimidating. You should have experienced assistance with equipment and material choices and purchases. You should have at least one good reloading book (I use the Hornaday and Lyman books). Spend a lot of time reading the processes and info in the beginning of the books so that you understand the reasons for the processes, and also so that you can ask intelligent questions of whoever is guiding you through the process.

Actually, sitting over a pile of bait really shouldn't be anymore boring than sitting there without it. In fact watching other critters visiting the pile has to be a bit entertaining .... lol. I think when it comes to how much of an aid baiting can be, it likely comes down to what I said earlier..... some know how to do it and some don't. I have no doubt that it works when intelligently used, or the equipment and the materials used would not be a huge commercial venture. You can only fool people for so long. If the technique were worthless, I don't think it would take people long to figure that out.

Correct. I intentionally took the question of legality out of the original question and tried to limit some of the off-shoots: "So what do you think. Is baiting for deer something you would like to get involved with (if it was legalized)?" I'm trying to get at the mentality and motives and gut reactions involved in bait-hunting and how we personally see bait fitting in with our visions of what hunting means to us. It's all about personal, individual opinion. Maybe I should have phrased it all a little clearer.

First of all let me correct a very blatant mis-statement of what I really said. I did not say that I have no respect for those that use a shortcut. What I did say was that I admit to not having a lot of respect for hunting accomplishments that make use of shortcuts. So when using quotes, please try not to purposely change them around. But to reply to your comment, apparently you see some kind of contradiction. Right or wrong judgments are not the same as value judgments of accomplishment. Of course I do not place the same value (or respect of accomplishment) on an animal harvested using shortcuts as I do for those taken without them. That is not saying that anyone has done anything wrong, or right. It is simply my value judgment on the challenge and accomplishments. One example is when someone has taken a deer with true primitive archery equipment vs. when I take one with my modern compound with all the gizmos and go-fasters. Neither of us are wrong in our methods, but one is a heck of a lot more worthy an accomplishment. As another example, don't be expecting a bunch of o-o-o's and ah-h-h's from me over an animal taken via a canned hunt. That's not a statement of a fact that they did something wrong, but simply that I don't rank the accomplishment in the same league as a wild free-range hunt. My attitude is exactly the same with baiting. It simply cheapens the accomplishment. That attitude says nothing about right or wrong.

So, perhaps the time is right for the new birthday present out front......

I have seen a few episodes of that program and realize that it is a hunt for a much younger man than myself. Actually at any age, you have to be in pretty good shape just to keep up.....lol. But for those that like the challenge of hunting something that hunts back, it would be a must-do hunt. Even under the protection of an armed guide, a full-on charge of one of those critters will certainly test your ability to snap-shoot a running animal intent on eating your face off. For me that's a bit too much pressure. Plus, I would have to build an addition in order to display the mount.....lol.

How does a turkey know where to scratch to find acorns under the leaves? As you can tell, I am not much of a turkey hunter, but I know that deer can smell acorns under the leaves and they go right for them. But This idea of a turkey kind of being able to do the same thing made me wonder if they might have a developed sense of smell that nobody really talks about. Yes, I know they scratch up some huge areas some times and maybe it is just luck. But something tells them where the acorns might be, even though they are completely hidden from view. Any thoughts?

Or not........lol.