Doc

As a do-it-yourself home project, I have absolutely no interest in homebrew construction. I have very little talent or abilitiy or patience with such things. As far as buying one of these from individual tinkerers, I am a bit concerned about the risks and cost. From what I have seen so far, there is no reputable manufacturer building and selling these things in a mass produced fashion, so again their is the risk thing. My guess is that this is most likely not a way that I am willing to go. For many, it might be a good idea but for me I think I will stay with the standard established trail cam manufacturers and do as good as I can.

I really haven't found a source of homebrew cameras to get cost and procurement data from. My initial reaction is that they might be out of my price range. Also, I wonder about such things as warrantees and returns, etc., just in case something were to go wrong. My understanding is that these homebrew approaches use standard digital cameras. That does make me wonder how they have weather-proofed them to eliminate such problems as condensation, rain, snow, freezing etc. I guess there's just a few too many questions without any reliable source of answers.

Yes, I can picture a parcel shaped like an airplane landing strip that if the shooting were done in the proper direction, it would be very safe. On the other hand, I have seen the average suburban lot that 99.99% of the suburbanites live on. Many of these don't even have fences between them. I will flat-out state that there is no way that any of these could be shooting any kind of weapon at 50 yards and be safe.I am waiting to have anyone reply to the very likely scenarios that I have laid out in previous replies. It is inconceivable to me that anyone could support a law change that would legalize that sort of risk even if we are not personally effected. I understand that many of us have that whole scenario covered by virtue of the size or shape of our property, but the law covers more people than just ourselves. Unless somebody can show me some proposed wording that will address the obvious safety concerns of so many properties, there's no way that I would ever support such a change.

I think the way so many of these recent attacks on bow season are actually gaining traction is that a lot of bowhunters have their own hunting grounds that are in one way or another controllable as to who, how many and what kind of hunters share the same area. They either own it, lease it, know the landowners or are related to the landowners. Therefore they feel insulated (and most likely are) from some of the effects of some of the recent changes and future changes that effect other bowhunters. For that reason they all have adopted the attitude of "let everyone else worry about their own situation ..... none of it affects me". I guess I could adopt the same attitude since my days of bowhunting are most likely limited, but I do have a loyalty to the sport that I have enjoyed almost all of my life. Having said all that, I do understand where a lot of this stuff becomes a bit overwhelming and where people eventually get to the point of giving up. I can understand how someone might adopt the attitude of pulling back into their own resources and let the rest of it go where it may. I still fight the tide a bit, but am no where near as adamant as I used to be. Just human nature I guess.

I am looking for reasonable quality pic that may be suitable for display. That means good clarity, good color, and good exposure. However, I fully understand that there will have to be compromise. I cannot afford the home-made set ups that use conventional cameras (i'm forgetting the term right now). So I do understand the limitations of most off-the-shelf trail cams on the market. But I do have some great photo opportunities of critters other than deer down in the swamp and creek across the road. (Mink, muskrats, beavers, coons, etc.) So I'm dealing with critters that are on their way from somewhere to somewhere and it may be only an instant when they are going by or on a trail. Consider how fast a swimming beaver comes into the frame and then is out. I know for a fact that deer very often can beat 4 seconds by a bunch. I have a lot of tail shots from some cameras that are much faster than 4 seconds .... lol. Being set up down at ground level, something like a mink may not be in the frame for long at all as they pass through some rather narrow openings in the swamp grass. The trigger speed will probably be more important for small critter photography than for deer photography. It is true that no matter what make and model camera you choose, somebody will have had a bad one or two. It's hard to use that kind of consumer judgements because it seems that just about all of the different manufacturers seem to have quality control shortfalls. But at least these kinds of opinions can give a kind of rough feel for what to expect. I'll be dealing with suppliers that have free shipping, no sales tax, no-questions-asked return policies, and free return shipping policies. So that kind of helps with the risk.

I suspect that shortening up the legal distance from structures for using a bow will definitely ensure that more and more municipalities enact those no-discharge laws. yet another unintended consequence. You will likely see subrban hunting opportunities diminish.

You know, if it was as simple as simply telling everybody that, we would not have people getting shot by other hunters. We wouldn't even be talking about blaze orange at all. But guess what..... they have all been told about being sure of their target in their hunter safety training, and we still have people getting shot. We can spout the rules of safety all we want and as often as we want, but there will still be people who ignore those rules, or who simply get too damned excited, or whatever it is that makes them throw all caution to the wind and blaze away at movement. So it is obvious that we need something besides these nice little safety phrases. Blaze orange is a poor substitute for safety-minded hunting, but there is no arguing the effectiveness of it. There just isn't. It would be interesting if only there was some way to measure just how many lives have been saved because of that little flash of orange. As far as non-hunters, I think they are more afraid of gun hunters than we are. They seem to vacate the woods while the season is in progress.

What is "fantasy fishing"?

There is no re-definitions of structures that will ensure that any kind of structure is guaranteed to unoccupied or in use. If a neighbor has a tool shed, there will be some time when he will be in it, approaching it or leaving it.

Let's understand that we are not talking about a law that regulates how close to a structure we can hunt. We are talking about modifying a law that regulates how close to a neighboring structure that we can release an arrow whether that be hunting or target practice. Let's also understand that this law will regulate the back-yard target shooter as well. And that legal modification will apply in all neighborhoods regardless of lot size. In many suburbs the lot sizes may be very close to that 50 yard limit. Also it must be pointed out that the change in law will apply to all ages including the group of neighborhood kids who may or may not understand or care about the sensitivities of their neighbors ..... lol. Do I feel that there may be disputes involving extremely unsafe situations caused by this kind of a change ...... you bet. If I lived in one of these sub-divisions, and I walked out in my back yard and found someone drawing down on some foam target at 50 yards with me all of a sudden behind it, I would be the first to be looking for somebody to choke. Fortunately I don't live in a situation where that could happen but there are a pile of people who do. I do honestly believe that most people do have the consideration and responsible attitudes so that the world of suburbia will not instantly turn into a hail of arrows flying into people's houses and yards. But I am also fully aware that jerks exist in this world, and neighbors are not always so concerned about safety or concerns of their neighbors. I also believe that it would just be a matter of time before we would be reading about somebody being stuck with an arrow because of this change. So I guess I am against revising the law to legalize the kind of carelessness and lack of responsibility that you just know would happen. I also want to maintain some legal recourse when a neighbor is put into such a position of unsafe conditions for himself, his family and his property. No one should have to be in a position to be afraid to step into their back yard because their neighbor is an archer. No, we do not all live in conditions where this can become a problem, but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of others who do. All I ask is to think how you would feel if this sort of situation were to happen to you. How would you like to find out that hunters had arranged to change the law so that you had no ability to stop this kind of activity next door. We can't always measure the correctness of a law simply as it relates to our own personal situations.

Cuddeback claims 1/4 second trigger speed. For me that may be worth the extra bucks. I don't know .... I still have a lot of time before I really have to make the decision. So many things to consider .........

Yes, I'm sure of it. It is a response to that Holder fiasco that Republicans are investigating now. It's an interesting story of government screw-up. Check out: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/08/attorney-general-eric-holder-grilled-on-bungled-gun-sting.html

That's ridiculous ....... standing room only ..... lol. I have never seen as many geese as I have this year. I don't think very many of them are going very far south this year.

Not too bad a price. But that 4 second trigger speed is absolutely unacceptable. I think that one is coming off the list. Unless an animal is standing there feeding or something, in 4 seconds they have plenty of time to walk right out of the picture. In fact as I went through that site, I noticed that all the Stealth-cam white-flash camers were 4 seconds. I think all the Stealth-cams are off the list.

I suggested that on another similar thread, and there were objections to adding a directional requirement to that law. Remember that in suburbia, there is always some house or yard that you are shooting at that is within 50 yards. I think a combination of the two (distance and direction) would be the best law. But that is not likely to happen. I do not credit our legislators with that kind of intelligence to understand direction of a shot is more important in satisfying the safety requirement than distance. So, I fully expect that they will shorten up the distance for bows to 50 yards and there will be all kinds of neighbor disputes with people actually shooting legally but irresponsibly at their neighbors house or yard.

I think everyone knows what is "good judgement", and "right" in that situation. And we all understand common sense. And we also know what the smart thing would be in those situations. But if everyone did the "right" thing and always applied common sense, good judgement, and always did the "smart" thing, we wouldn't need any law. However, this thread is about changing the law. And the change in law that we are talking about here could and would be used as a defense to the exact scenario that I described above.

Sounds like intentional homicide to me.

Normally, I would have an issue with the use of vulgarity and rudeness that is kind of the hallmark of Ted's personality. But in the case of Piers Morgan, I would be surprised if I could discuss gun issues without resorting to the same thing.....lol. Other than all that, nobody can honestly or realistically argue with his presentation of the facts and content of that interview. Argue about the debating style if you want, but the facts are irrefutable.

Lol ...... It doesn't format too well when copied and pasted onto this site, does it? That's why I simply gave the link. On another thread, I went to great efforts to completely re-type this chart and format it so people could follow the columns and rows. It didn't matter. Nobody read it anyway. It's a great source of info when discussing blaze orange topics if only you can get anyone to actually read it and then acknowledge the facts when they see them.

If you're standing in the middle of a field, you're probably safe enough ....... probably. For myself, I wouldn't trust even that situation. But I will say that under that situation, while standing in the middle of a field, if someone shoots you it probably doesn't have anything to do with the mentality of blaze orange being mandatory or not. More likely they simply want to shoot you.....lol. I only mentioned the idea of hanging your jacket on a tree limb or throwing it over a bush as a suggestion and as something that I do. For one thing, I have to put it somewhere. Why not put it where it provides another layer of safety? However, whether you do that or not still should not absolve anyone from being liable for careless accidental shootings as a result of unsafe hunting practices. I think that goes without saying. The person that mis-identifies the target should still be the one that is legally accountable. If there are judges, juries, or other enforcement and judicial people that do not abide by that line of thinking, then that is a problem that has nothing to do with blaze orange.

Where do you buy your factory reconditioned cams?

I keep reading about these unique parcels of property where in one fashion or another hunting is impaired by the 500' rule, but I have yet to read any reply to my comments of legalizing someone taking shots in the direction of a neighbor's house from a mere 50 yards. Is that really something that you support? Has anybody really visualized just how close 50 yards is? My gosh that is a commonly used target practice distance. Would you feel comfortable sending the kids out in the back yard while someone is 50 yards away shooting in their direction? How do you feel about your house being used as an archery backstop? That's the reality of the changes you people are in favor of. Am I the only one that understands that?

If there are some jerks that will follow that line of thinking, they probably already think that way even without mandatory B/O. That is even another good argument in favor of wearing blaze orange. What amazes me is all the people who claim that hunters will react in this ridiculous way, and yet feel comfortable wandering around without B/O. Blaze orange may not be a perfect defense, but it still is darned effective. We will never know how many of us have never been shot at because we were decked out in B/O, and I'll tell you that I don't really want to find out about that stat with any kind of first hand experience, if you get what I'm saying.

That's the kinds of comments that I am interested in. I started a new thread inquiring about experiences with a few specific makes and models. Here is one thing that I am doing to minimize my risks somewhat .... I am only dealing with internet suppliers that offer: free shipping and shipping returns if necessary No taxes And a "no questions asked" return policy That is one thing that impressed the heck out of me about Hayneedle. All of this fiasco may have been a true frustrating pain in the butt, but didn't cost me one dime. So, the theory is that if I do happen to run into a piece of junk, I won't be dealing with the manufacturer, but simply return it to the seller. However, I am still interested in your Cuddeback comment. Free or not, no one wants to set themselves up for a bunch of frustration and wasted time.

I'm looking at the Cuddeback Attack and the Cuddeback Capture, and the Stealthcam Rogue and the Stealth-cam Sniper Pro for my next purchase. I have only a few qualifications: good color and quality of day or night images (no infra-red) good functional quality and reliability Ease of use and set-up The cost of the above makes and models is about as far as I will go for price. Has anyone had any experience with any of these specific cameras? Any general comments on these manufacturers in terms of customer service and reliability, Etc.?